Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

When I was reading the plight of that pro-recognition individual Expatkiwi/Dean, on the ATCA forum, he actually raised a very good point: What are the ulterior motives of Turkey on the north of Cyprus? Expatkiwi got slammed by his ATCA colleagues because he supported the north as a purely independent country... WITHOUT Turkish control or influence on the north's administration, people, or economy. He pointed out - rightly - that the current Turkish political, economic, and military control over the north has made the north nothing more than a dependency and colony of Turkey, despite the claims of independence (based on the text of the north's 1983 UDI). That leads me to wonder this: what would have happened to the north had that UDI been widely recognized? There are only three options that I can see:

1. Turkey lets the north be completely sovereign by distancing itself from their affairs and allowing the north to make its own decisions.

2. Turkey eventually annexes the north using the Hatay precedent.

3. Turkey uses treaties and other agreements in order to retain a disproportionate influence on the north's administration, thus making it a perpetual puppet state.

The people who support partition should have a careful think as to Turkey's ultimate intentions because Turkey's own interests will always come first with Ankara. And since - unlike Expatkiwi - I don't believe that the north - if it ever was internationally recognized - would be an economically viable entity, then the first option should not be seriously entertained.... unless Turkey's intention is to let the north go its own way and end up bankrupt, and then they come back in to 'pick up the pieces'. Given the strategic value of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranian and the Near East, Turkey is not likely to just let the north go its own way... You TC's and pro-recognition supporters may not like Greece or the RoCy government very much, but being too trusting on Turkey is not likely to make things any better either...

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Yeah! And all this because they have learned the truth from your posts this forum! You have managed to convince them, Oracle! Especially you!

[zan]

Okay, Zan. Given the historical emnities, plus the intercommunal violence, I can see that there is not much in the way of trust regarding the Greek Cypriots and the intenrationally recognized Cypriot government. However, since Cyprus is a memeber of the EU, they are bound to observe the treaties on human rights. That makes things better, doesn't it?

Utu, why don't you ask Zan if he would still have supported partition so fervently, had Turkey occupied only 18% or less of the island, instead of the twice larger to their demographic /property share of the island?

The only reason those TCs supporting partition, do so, is because they feel /believe /hope that in this way they will be able to run away with double and triple their fair share! If things were different, they would all have been in love with the RoC, the GCs and the EU, and curse Turkey for continuing its illegal occupation of part of Cyprus. After all, none of those thousands of TCs crossing south every day, for all the known reasons, do seem to have any particular problem with the GCs!

Your question would have made sense if it was not for the fact that the practice of buying more and more TC land and scaring TC off the island wasn't so obvious. The Green line was drawn where it was for a reason. You take our government and our country and have the cheek to say we are greedy....Now that is worth a
It also seems that those GCs that cross over to the TRNC have no problem with the TRNC or the Turks either......They seem more interested in cheep clothing though!!!!!

[utu]

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Expatkiwi's achilles heel seems to be that he believes in literally what the text of the north's UDI says.... The only problem with that is that hardly anyone living in the north believes in it... least of all Turkey.

To Expatkiwi's credit, his belief in Self-Determinaton being a universal right is a whole-hearted one. Hovever, he needs to understand that a UDI does not make necessarilly a free country...

[iceman]

Zan,

Let me get this straight: you'd rather be ruled by a Turk, even if that Turk was a tyrant? I thought that the argument was about people living in peace on Cyprus.

utu
Dont waste your time.You are talking to the wrong man....
Zan is a UK TC who lived all his life in UK and has no idea on present realities of Cyprus.

[Get Real!]

....We either have a partnership in Cyprus where our rights are respected along with our culture and are represented as we should be in all aspects of Cyprus life or we carry on as we are........

If you were truly interested in any of the above claims you’d thirst for a proper democracy and not for some imbalanced and undemocratic political arrangement that has never been tested before and has no chance of being accepted let alone surviving, with the ulterior motive that the UN will then feel sorry for you and grant you a state… as if that is ever legally or morally possible without the consent of the RoC.

Any which way you look at it, the RoC is the most influential player in the Cyprus problem, not only because of their indigenousness to this island, or their overwhelming majority in numbers, but for their strong financial standing, and the political grip they have gradually attained to earn their place in the world so any notion that the tiny and feeble TC community can outmaneuver the Republic out of any proportion of their sovereignty without their blessings is as realistic as… [Insert preferred mission impossible here]

[Oracle]

When I was reading the plight of that pro-recognition individual Expatkiwi/Dean, on the ATCA forum, he actually raised a very good point: What are the ulterior motives of Turkey on the north of Cyprus? Expatkiwi got slammed by his ATCA colleagues because he supported the north as a purely independent country... WITHOUT Turkish control or influence on the north's administration, people, or economy. He pointed out - rightly - that the current Turkish political, economic, and military control over the north has made the north nothing more than a dependency and colony of Turkey, despite the claims of independence (based on the text of the north's 1983 UDI). That leads me to wonder this: what would have happened to the north had that UDI been widely recognized? There are only three options that I can see:

1. Turkey lets the north be completely sovereign by distancing itself from their affairs and allowing the north to make its own decisions.

2. Turkey eventually annexes the north using the Hatay precedent.

3. Turkey uses treaties and other agreements in order to retain a disproportionate influence on the north's administration, thus making it a perpetual puppet state.

The people who support partition should have a careful think as to Turkey's ultimate intentions because Turkey's own interests will always come first with Ankara. And since - unlike Expatkiwi - I don't believe that the north - if it ever was internationally recognized - would be an economically viable entity, then the first option should not be seriously entertained.... unless Turkey's intention is to let the north go its own way and end up bankrupt, and then they come back in to 'pick up the pieces'. Given the strategic value of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranian and the Near East, Turkey is not likely to just let the north go its own way... You TC's and pro-recognition supporters may not like Greece or the RoCy government very much, but being too trusting on Turkey is not likely to make things any better either...

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Yeah! And all this because they have learned the truth from your posts this forum! You have managed to convince them, Oracle! Especially you!

Neither you nor I Kifeas, but their own moral compass

[zan]

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Expatkiwi's achilles heel seems to be that he believes in literally what the text of the north's UDI says.... The only problem with that is that hardly anyone living in the north believes in it... least of all Turkey.

To Expatkiwi's credit, his belief in Self-Determinaton being a universal right is a whole-hearted one. Hovever, he needs to understand that a UDI does not make necessarilly a free country...

Embargoes, isolation and non-recognition make it less of a free country utu......I have told you how the TCs are beginning to think.....Turkey seems to be the only way out.....

[Kifeas]

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Expatkiwi's achilles heel seems to be that he believes in literally what the text of the north's UDI says.... The only problem with that is that hardly anyone living in the north believes in it... least of all Turkey.

To Expatkiwi's credit, his belief in Self-Determinaton being a universal right is a whole-hearted one. Hovever, he needs to understand that a UDI does not make necessarilly a free country...

Yeah, right! A UDI on stolen land, homes and herritage, is indeed a "universal right!" Yeah!

[Oracle]

This is an interesting development. Two individuals (utu and Expatkiwi)which less than a year ago were analysing the Cyprus Problem from a pro-Turkish/TC point of view, appear to be questioning their partisan-ships.

As I said to you utu, on another thread, it won't be long before Expatkiwi reappraises altogether, in favour of the GCs.

Your Ph.D. is having a soporific effect on you too, utu!

Education, time and deep analysis will stop the Turks in their lying tracks.

Expatkiwi's achilles heel seems to be that he believes in literally what the text of the north's UDI says.... The only problem with that is that hardly anyone living in the north believes in it... least of all Turkey.

To Expatkiwi's credit, his belief in Self-Determinaton being a universal right is a whole-hearted one. Hovever, he needs to understand that a UDI does not make necessarilly a free country...

Embargoes, isolation and non-recognition make it less of a free country utu......I have told you how the TCs are beginning to think.....Turkey seems to be the only way out.....

... away you go then!

[zan]

Zan,

Let me get this straight: you'd rather be ruled by a Turk, even if that Turk was a tyrant? I thought that the argument was about people living in peace on Cyprus.

utu
Dont waste your time.You are talking to the wrong man....
Zan is a UK TC who lived all his life in UK and has no idea on present realities of Cyprus.

Not from the people I have spoken to.....Are you telling me that you would be happy to be ruled by GCs...Are you ready to give it all up and let the "RoC" have it????