Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Aboriginal people are usually minorities in their own country. I think the Turks should rule Cyprus and protect the indigenious peoples of the island like Rums and Maronites. LoL Rums should start living in small villages where we could take the tourists to see the life styles of them. Lol Anyways, it was bad night and exam week has just arrived!

[Alexis]

I have followed this surreal property debate, both in the press and in the forum, and I have a question for Kifeas and the others who, albeit with slightly less vehemence, support the GC point of view.

First of all, I can not imagine that you seriously think that the likes of Orams and the renter of the Famagusta restaurant should be forced to demolish their buildings, pay back rent, and return a property which they have purchased under the laws applicable for that region (those of the 'TRNC'). Perhaps they should have been more careful, but they can not willy-nilly be requested to assume full responsibility. I can also not imagine a court outside of the government controlled areas upholding such a stance.

Second of all, the real culprit has to be the TC administration, or the TRNC and the federal state preceding it. They have expropriated lands and sold them off or given them away to refugees (although no one seems to be clear on the details). Given that the TRNC is not recognized, it can not be sued in a Cypriot court - in fact, only citizens can.

Obviously, since we cannot simply throw out the current residents, it all comes down to compensation. Who, do you think, should pay this compensation?

- Turkey: Perhaps. But it is hard to argue that Turkey has profited from these properties, especially given the massive amounts of aid they have poured into the North.

- TRNC: They are not recognized, so how can you sue them?

- The current owners: If they have received the lands in exchange for lands in the South or if they have bought their property at market prices, this would not be a fair solution.

I understand you want a culprit, but who can it be? What would your ideal and fair property solution be?

I would expect a property settlement to hold the rights of refugees
paramount but at the same time minimise disruption to the lives of those
living in refugee property. This can be done in the first instance through the agreed exchange of property between refugees. In the case of non-refugees who live in refugee property choice should be given to the refugees with the caveat that a realistic amount of time and assistance be given to the incumbent to relocate nearby if the refugee does choose to return.
There will undoubtedly be cases where on humanitarian grounds as much care as possible should be taken to assist all those concerned. I am not against the vast majority of settlers (i.e. those who have been in Cyprus for a while) remaining and becoming a part of Cypriot society as long as this does not prevent refugees from returning.
In cases where refugee land has been expropriated in order to benefiot the community (e.g. to build schools, public roads etc...), adequate compensation should be received by those affected in order to rebuild new homes as close as possible to their original ones.

Who should pay: Turkey for GC refugees, the GCCS for TC refugees.
I have no sympathy for the argument that Turkey has not benefitted from Cyprus. Turkey knew what she was doing in 1974, the objective was to establish a strategic stronghold in Cyprus (I do not believe the intention was ever to gain the whole of Cyprus although had the opportunity presented itself I am not sure what Turkey would have done) which she holds to the present day.
Had she taken enough land to accommodate the Turkish Cypriots of the day, or better still reinstated the state of affairs as outlined by the 1960 treaties this argument would not hold sway. The fact remains though that Turkey took too much land (almost double the amount required), partitioned the island and as a consequence the TRNC has since invited settlers to fill this land.
As a gesture of goodwill (and as a damage limitation exercise) the TRNC should now put sufficient controls in place with regards refugee property and stop sales to third parties (be they Turkish or foreign nationals).
It should be in full control of refugee property in preparation for a settlement, proving that it is serious about unification of the island.

[brother]

Kifeas

Then why do you say in your location description that you are from north Cyprus when in fact your origin is from places geographically located in the southern part of Cyprus?

Good point, i will correct that.

[suetoniuspaulinus]

Kifeas

Then why do you say in your location description that you are from north Cyprus when in fact your origin is from places geographically located in the southern part of Cyprus?

Good point, i will correct that.

Mr brother

This is no point at all

Location means wher you are now, NOT where you came from.

[brother]

I am in the u.k now but i am cypriot and wanted to let people know it, but as a person whoever i talk to if what they say rings true to me i acknowledge it, my family is originally from the south but i think we are all wrong for defining north or south when we should only say cyprus imo.

[detailer]

I have some "background" in south too but in an appliacble plan, I dont think that we(TC) will have a good life space in south.

In a possible plan, GC will try to get south all(although they may give some symbolic rights to TC in south for being sympathetic and prepeare a ground for their dominance in north) and try to "dilute" the dominance of TC at north.

Personally, I would prefer to give GC as much as possible land back (as a "whole packet") and have some non-diluted autonomy in the remaing north both ethnically and politically.

[suetoniuspaulinus]

I have some "background" in south too but in an appliacble plan, I dont think that we(TC) will have a good life space in south.

In a possible plan, GC will try to get south all(although they may give some symbolic rights to TC in south for being sympathetic and prepeare a ground for their dominance in north) and try to "dilute" the dominance of TC at north.

Personally, I would prefer to give GC as much as possible land back (as a "whole packet") and have some non-diluted autonomy in the remaing north both ethnically and politically.

Mr detailer

Judging from some of the posts on this forum I think you are absolutely right, but I do not believe GC's will let us have our autonomy no matter how much land is given back to them.

I believe that in the end the GC's will be pressured into making a deal with us but it will not be voluntary.

[detailer]

I have some "background" in south too but in an appliacble plan, I dont think that we(TC) will have a good life space in south.

In a possible plan, GC will try to get south all(although they may give some symbolic rights to TC in south for being sympathetic and prepeare a ground for their dominance in north) and try to "dilute" the dominance of TC at north.

Personally, I would prefer to give GC as much as possible land back (as a "whole packet") and have some non-diluted autonomy in the remaing north both ethnically and politically.

Mr detailer

Judging from some of the posts on this forum I think you are absolutely right, but I do not believe GC's will let us have our autonomy no matter how much land is given back to them.

I believe that in the end the GC's will be pressured into making a deal with us but it will not be voluntary.

Of course they wont give us anything easily but I hope we can get it... Otherwise we will be "muslim cypriots" quite soon after the agreement.

[cannedmoose]

Aboriginal people are usually minorities in their own country. I think the Turks should rule Cyprus and protect the indigenious peoples of the island like Rums and Maronites. LoL Rums should start living in small villages where we could take the tourists to see the life styles of them. Lol Anyways, it was bad night and exam week has just arrived!

Watch out Garb, someone will think you're actually serious about this...

[suetoniuspaulinus]

Aboriginal people are usually minorities in their own country. I think the Turks should rule Cyprus and protect the indigenious peoples of the island like Rums and Maronites. LoL Rums should start living in small villages where we could take the tourists to see the life styles of them. Lol Anyways, it was bad night and exam week has just arrived!

Watch out Garb, someone will think you're actually serious about this...

Mr garbitsch

Good luck with your exams