Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Union with Greece is the right of the Cypriot people. It is our island and we have the right to unite with anyone we want (if we want). Does Turkey take the approval of their Greek or Kurdish minority in order to take any decision? I think not.

It is comments like this which make Partition inevitable...
Piratis obviously does not consider the TCs as Cypriots...Perhaps he thinks of us as part of Cyprus fauna...How disappointing...

No Bir, I consider you as equal Cypriots who have the right to cast your one vote each, like everybody else, and determine along with the rest of Cypriots the destiny of this island in a democratic way.

What I do not consider you is "Super Cypriots" with your vote counting 5 times more than mine, and with the right to veto and overwrite the democratically expressed will of the Cypriot people.

Such unfair privileges were granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus, in order to turn you against the majority of Cypriots and use you as their pawns and as their excuse to keep Cyprus enslaved under their control.

You have no right for such privileges, and it is time for you to admit this since it is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

(Promise to a minority loads of privileges and/or land in order to turn them against the majority. A "divide and rule" classic, used successfully in several other places)

Piratis...What you are advocating is the Tyranny of the majority...Not democracy...given our history and everything that went on since early 50s,and knowing that Enosis with Greece was unthinkable for most TCs,still insisting on the right of self-determination makes mockery of the very notion of self determination...If GCs saw themselves as primarily Greek and wanted to unite with Greece,than the TCs were entitled to see themselves as primarily Turkish and want to unite with Turkey...Anything else would be double standards...If the GCs had seen themselves as primarily Cypriot and wanted independence then you would have a case....It seems that we have learned nothing from our bloody history and we are condemned to live apart as two separate people...We cannot be one nation, one people if we show contempt for the deepest wishes of the other...I see no other solution now except Partition...on Turkey's terms...Zan was right all along...

[BirKibrisli]

RIP Sir , a man who served his nation and devoted his life to his island. His rejection of the AP was as far as I'm concerned the correct decision and he will be remembered , I'm certain , as the President who refused to capitulate to those who were ready to legitimise Turkeys occupation of our lands and our people in an agreement that was doomed to fail in the foreseeable future .
May god have mercy on his soul .

Welcome back,dear compatriot...
Great to see you posting again...Your wise input was badly missed...

[Oracle]

Union with Greece is the right of the Cypriot people. It is our island and we have the right to unite with anyone we want (if we want). Does Turkey take the approval of their Greek or Kurdish minority in order to take any decision? I think not.

It is comments like this which make Partition inevitable...
Piratis obviously does not consider the TCs as Cypriots...Perhaps he thinks of us as part of Cyprus fauna...How disappointing...

No Bir, I consider you as equal Cypriots who have the right to cast your one vote each, like everybody else, and determine along with the rest of Cypriots the destiny of this island in a democratic way.

What I do not consider you is "Super Cypriots" with your vote counting 5 times more than mine, and with the right to veto and overwrite the democratically expressed will of the Cypriot people.

Such unfair privileges were granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus, in order to turn you against the majority of Cypriots and use you as their pawns and as their excuse to keep Cyprus enslaved under their control.

You have no right for such privileges, and it is time for you to admit this since it is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

(Promise to a minority loads of privileges and/or land in order to turn them against the majority. A "divide and rule" classic, used successfully in several other places)

Piratis...What you are advocating is the Tyranny of the majority...Not democracy...given our history and everything that went on since early 50s,and knowing that Enosis with Greece was unthinkable for most TCs,still insisting on the right of self-determination makes mockery of the very notion of self determination...If GCs saw themselves as primarily Greek and wanted to unite with Greece,than the TCs were entitled to see themselves as primarily Turkish and want to unite with Turkey...Anything else would be double standards...If the GCs had seen themselves as primarily Cypriot and wanted independence then you would have a case....It seems that we have learned nothing from our bloody history and we are condemned to live apart as two separate people...We cannot be one nation, one people if we show contempt for the deepest wishes of the other...I see no other solution now except Partition...on Turkey's terms...Zan was right all along...

May I just say, that if we are condemned to live apart as two separate people, that those who do not think like Piratis (democratically, fairly, justly), go and live in another country that is already well-established in your other desired forms of Government (such as fascist Turkey), and leave Cyprus alone for the group of people who do want to live under a Democracy of one-man-one-vote, and respect of Human Rights, EQUALLY and for all, not just for the "special people" TCs.

Does anyone else confuse Democracy with "Tyranny" as BirKibrisli has just done?

[miltiades]

RIP Sir , a man who served his nation and devoted his life to his island. His rejection of the AP was as far as I'm concerned the correct decision and he will be remembered , I'm certain , as the President who refused to capitulate to those who were ready to legitimise Turkeys occupation of our lands and our people in an agreement that was doomed to fail in the foreseeable future .
May god have mercy on his soul .

Welcome back,dear compatriot...
Great to see you posting again...Your wise input was badly missed...

Thank you Bir let me just say that YOU are one that I felt I was letting down by my absence from the forum . Hope all is well with you and you know someting , I actually felt those vibrations !!

[Piratis]

Union with Greece is the right of the Cypriot people. It is our island and we have the right to unite with anyone we want (if we want). Does Turkey take the approval of their Greek or Kurdish minority in order to take any decision? I think not.

It is comments like this which make Partition inevitable...
Piratis obviously does not consider the TCs as Cypriots...Perhaps he thinks of us as part of Cyprus fauna...How disappointing...

No Bir, I consider you as equal Cypriots who have the right to cast your one vote each, like everybody else, and determine along with the rest of Cypriots the destiny of this island in a democratic way.

What I do not consider you is "Super Cypriots" with your vote counting 5 times more than mine, and with the right to veto and overwrite the democratically expressed will of the Cypriot people.

Such unfair privileges were granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus, in order to turn you against the majority of Cypriots and use you as their pawns and as their excuse to keep Cyprus enslaved under their control.

You have no right for such privileges, and it is time for you to admit this since it is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

(Promise to a minority loads of privileges and/or land in order to turn them against the majority. A "divide and rule" classic, used successfully in several other places)

Piratis...What you are advocating is the Tyranny of the majority...Not democracy...given our history and everything that went on since early 50s,and knowing that Enosis with Greece was unthinkable for most TCs,still insisting on the right of self-determination makes mockery of the very notion of self determination...

You can not declare "Tyranny of the majority" whatever democratic decision doesn't suit you.

A minority has certain rights, which are their human and their minority rights. If these rights are violated by the majority then we would be talking about "Tyranny of the majority". Union with Greece would violate none of the human or minority rights of the TCs.

On the contrary, prohibiting union with Greece violated the democratic rights of the Cypriot people and our right for self-determination after being ruled by foreigners for so much time. If those foreigners created some minorities on our island during their rule, that is really not our fault, and those minorities should learn to live as any other minority in any other country, and stop treating us as if they are still our rulers who can impose undemocratically their will by force. We have suffered enough from them already, don't you think?

If GCs saw themselves as primarily Greek and wanted to unite with Greece,than the TCs were entitled to see themselves as primarily Turkish and want to unite with Turkey...Anything else would be double standards...If the GCs had seen themselves as primarily Cypriot and wanted independence then you would have a case....It seems that we have learned nothing from our bloody history and we are condemned to live apart as two separate people...We cannot be one nation, one people if we show contempt for the deepest wishes of the other...

TCs are free to view themselves any way they wish. No problem with that. But nothing gives them the right to kill and ethnically cleanse people in order to artificially create some Turkish state on land that belongs to us by 80% and which is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs and where we have 10 times longer history on.

Imagine if every minority in every country wanted to take a piece of the country just for themselves by ethnically cleansing everybody else, just because they didn't like the democratic decisions!

The "double standards" is what you are advocating. Is the Greek minority in Turkey given the privileges that you demand for your minority in Cyprus? Is there any minority given such privileges?

The root of the Cyprus problem are those foreigners that want to keep control and their troops on our island. It is a problem we have for centuries.

In the era of decolonization and freedom (after WWII) those foreigners could not continue to impose their rule in the same "just because" way the did earlier. So they created the "Turkish Cypriot Community" out of the Muslims of Cyprus (many of whom didn't even speak Turkish!), offered to them several unfair privileges on the expense of the rest of Cypriots, and turned them against the majority of Cypriots in order to stop Cyprus from being liberated so they could maintain their troops and their control over us. This is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

I see no other solution now except Partition...on Turkey's terms...Zan was right all along...

That is not called a "solution" it is called a problem, exactly because the Turks have no right to rule lands that belong to us.

We will not give up our rights on our island and the problem will continue to exist until it is solved in the one and only way that it can be solved: Freedom from foreign rulers and democracy. Nothing else will constitute a solution.

[miltiades]

Entirely agree that we will not give up our rights until foreign rulers depart from our Cypriot lands , but let us remember that this island of ours is equally the land of each and every Cypriot who as a Cypriot belongs to the overwhelming majority of the people on this island , and NO CYPRIOT is a minority with minority rights , just as I along with 300 thousand Cypriots here in the UK are part of the majority , the law abiding British people.
I do not for one second consider Birkibrisly or any other Turkish Cypriot as members of a minority, those that I consider a minority are the destructive elements that wish to gift our lands and our entire island in some cases to a foreign nation , those that ignore the sanctity of our national heritage and want to destroy it and replace it with a foreign identity.
Proud to share this beautiful island with all Cypriots , detest the idea of a foreign country once again ruling us.

[Piratis]

Entirely agree that we will not give up our rights until foreign rulers depart from our Cypriot lands , but let us remember that this island of ours is equally the land of each and every Cypriot who as a Cypriot belongs to the overwhelming majority of the people on this island , and NO CYPRIOT is a minority with minority rights , just as I along with 300 thousand Cypriots here in the UK are part of the majority , the law abiding British people.
I do not for one second consider Birkibrisly or any other Turkish Cypriot as members of a minority, those that I consider a minority are the destructive elements that wish to gift our lands and our entire island in some cases to a foreign nation , those that ignore the sanctity of our national heritage and want to destroy it and replace it with a foreign identity.
Proud to share this beautiful island with all Cypriots , detest the idea of a foreign country once again ruling us.

Minority rights are rights additional to the individual rights that each person has, that are given to certain groups of people.

For example, if Greek Cypriots were given an official minority status in the UK then they would have more rights than they have now, not less. This is why Turkey for years refused to recognize the Kurds as a minority and they were calling them "Mountain Turks" pretending that there was no such thing as a Kurdish minority in Turkey. Do you think this is good for the Kurds?

[BirKibrisli]

RIP Sir , a man who served his nation and devoted his life to his island. His rejection of the AP was as far as I'm concerned the correct decision and he will be remembered , I'm certain , as the President who refused to capitulate to those who were ready to legitimise Turkeys occupation of our lands and our people in an agreement that was doomed to fail in the foreseeable future .
May god have mercy on his soul .

Welcome back,dear compatriot...
Great to see you posting again...Your wise input was badly missed...

Thank you Bir let me just say that YOU are one that I felt I was letting down by my absence from the forum . Hope all is well with you and you know someting , I actually felt those vibrations !!

You were meant to feel them,dear miltiades...
I am so glad you did...More than you can imagine...
Much more to come...

[BirKibrisli]

Union with Greece is the right of the Cypriot people. It is our island and we have the right to unite with anyone we want (if we want). Does Turkey take the approval of their Greek or Kurdish minority in order to take any decision? I think not.

It is comments like this which make Partition inevitable...
Piratis obviously does not consider the TCs as Cypriots...Perhaps he thinks of us as part of Cyprus fauna...How disappointing...

No Bir, I consider you as equal Cypriots who have the right to cast your one vote each, like everybody else, and determine along with the rest of Cypriots the destiny of this island in a democratic way.

What I do not consider you is "Super Cypriots" with your vote counting 5 times more than mine, and with the right to veto and overwrite the democratically expressed will of the Cypriot people.

Such unfair privileges were granted to you by the invaders of Cyprus, in order to turn you against the majority of Cypriots and use you as their pawns and as their excuse to keep Cyprus enslaved under their control.

You have no right for such privileges, and it is time for you to admit this since it is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

(Promise to a minority loads of privileges and/or land in order to turn them against the majority. A "divide and rule" classic, used successfully in several other places)

Piratis...What you are advocating is the Tyranny of the majority...Not democracy...given our history and everything that went on since early 50s,and knowing that Enosis with Greece was unthinkable for most TCs,still insisting on the right of self-determination makes mockery of the very notion of self determination...

You can not declare "Tyranny of the majority" whatever democratic decision doesn't suit you.

A minority has certain rights, which are their human and their minority rights. If these rights are violated by the majority then we would be talking about "Tyranny of the majority". Union with Greece would violate none of the human or minority rights of the TCs.

On the contrary, prohibiting union with Greece violated the democratic rights of the Cypriot people and our right for self-determination after being ruled by foreigners for so much time. If those foreigners created some minorities on our island during their rule, that is really not our fault, and those minorities should learn to live as any other minority in any other country, and stop treating us as if they are still our rulers who can impose undemocratically their will by force. We have suffered enough from them already, don't you think?

If GCs saw themselves as primarily Greek and wanted to unite with Greece,than the TCs were entitled to see themselves as primarily Turkish and want to unite with Turkey...Anything else would be double standards...If the GCs had seen themselves as primarily Cypriot and wanted independence then you would have a case....It seems that we have learned nothing from our bloody history and we are condemned to live apart as two separate people...We cannot be one nation, one people if we show contempt for the deepest wishes of the other...

TCs are free to view themselves any way they wish. No problem with that. But nothing gives them the right to kill and ethnically cleanse people in order to artificially create some Turkish state on land that belongs to us by 80% and which is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs and where we have 10 times longer history on.

Imagine if every minority in every country wanted to take a piece of the country just for themselves by ethnically cleansing everybody else, just because they didn't like the democratic decisions!

The "double standards" is what you are advocating. Is the Greek minority in Turkey given the privileges that you demand for your minority in Cyprus? Is there any minority given such privileges?

The root of the Cyprus problem are those foreigners that want to keep control and their troops on our island. It is a problem we have for centuries.

In the era of decolonization and freedom (after WWII) those foreigners could not continue to impose their rule in the same "just because" way the did earlier. So they created the "Turkish Cypriot Community" out of the Muslims of Cyprus (many of whom didn't even speak Turkish!), offered to them several unfair privileges on the expense of the rest of Cypriots, and turned them against the majority of Cypriots in order to stop Cyprus from being liberated so they could maintain their troops and their control over us. This is the root of the inter-communal conflict.

I see no other solution now except Partition...on Turkey's terms...Zan was right all along...

That is not called a "solution" it is called a problem, exactly because the Turks have no right to rule lands that belong to us.

We will not give up our rights on our island and the problem will continue to exist until it is solved in the one and only way that it can be solved: Freedom from foreign rulers and democracy. Nothing else will constitute a solution.

AS I said elsewhere,Piratis,there is little point arguing with you..Your mind is made up and nothing will change it...No amount of logical argument or historical facts..You are not after a democratic solution..You are after punishment and revenge...You are so bitter, you can't even see that two wrongs will not make one right...That Turkey failed terribly to deal humanely with Her minorities does not give you the right to deal in the same way with the TCs...Because by insisting on Enosis with Greece at the time you were totally ignoring the TC wishes and fears...That was the tyranny of the majority I was talking about...But you will never see that...

[BirKibrisli]

Entirely agree that we will not give up our rights until foreign rulers depart from our Cypriot lands , but let us remember that this island of ours is equally the land of each and every Cypriot who as a Cypriot belongs to the overwhelming majority of the people on this island , and NO CYPRIOT is a minority with minority rights , just as I along with 300 thousand Cypriots here in the UK are part of the majority , the law abiding British people.
I do not for one second consider Birkibrisly or any other Turkish Cypriot as members of a minority, those that I consider a minority are the destructive elements that wish to gift our lands and our entire island in some cases to a foreign nation , those that ignore the sanctity of our national heritage and want to destroy it and replace it with a foreign identity.
Proud to share this beautiful island with all Cypriots , detest the idea of a foreign country once again ruling us.

Spoken like a True Cypriot that you are ,miltiades...

A breath of fresh air...Welcome back,again...