Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Have you come across any indication all these years that Turkey supports partition?

Recognition.

Yeah, that's what I meant... have you?

Not even recognition VP, only lifting the isolation so to reduce the financial burden she has to bear every year. Recognised north out of the EU does not serve Turkey at all. The TC's are much more useful to Turkey if they are within the "new" RoC that out of it.!

[Viewpoint]

Have you come across any indication all these years that Turkey supports partition?

Recognition.

Yeah, that's what I meant... have you?

Not even recognition VP, only lifting the isolation so to reduce the financial burden she has to bear every year. Recognised north out of the EU does not serve Turkey at all. The TC's are much more useful to Turkey if they are within the "new" RoC that out of it.!

Turkeys recognition is what we have and a clear statement that division in her eyes has occured.

[utu]

Turkeys recognition is what we have and a clear statement that division in her eyes has occured.

But to what end? When such a pro-recognition person as Expatkiwi made comments (on the ATCA form) about Turkey's actions actually doing more to undermine than support the north's UDI, and thus compromising the north's independence claim, it does make one think if the "Hatay precedent" is the actual desire of Ankara...

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

So what you want VP, is to have a settlement based on 80%-20% in the TC's favour, just like the Annan Plan in order to give a YES vote to a settlement, then you complain why the GC's will not go along with your wishes, and you call me blind.

You know full well that my support for agreed partition arises directly from the fact that TCs and GCs cannot and will never find a solution that both sides can commit to 100%. The current negotiations just back up what I am saying and the fact that we do not agree on anything is even more proof that there is no solution we will agree to, so whats the use in chasing our own tales. The GCs will not go along with anything we want unless its something they want and impose it upon us.

So what ever happen to being partners on a 50-50 basis.? What you demand is not a 50-50 basis at all. If it meant that, then the TC's and the GC's would meet at the half way line during these negotiations. It is very clear, that you would rather hold on to the stolen GC land in the north than negotiate in good faith. So now we know which of the two parties who is being totally unreasonable and once again would like to have a Undemocratic and Racist settlement just to please the minority 20% TC's with 80% of all the goodies, and of course, if we add the TC veto vote power, it will give the TC's 100% decision makings in the government. All this makes the 1960 Constitution into a joke in comparison, as bad as that one was.

You should try harder to remember my views on land and power sharing I'm not going to repeat myself yet again but I will say that you should try to view TCs as equal partners in a new agreement that deserve an effective say in their own future taking into account the shenanigans of the past. Safeguards which hopefully will become redundant due lack of use are vital to bring the two sides closer together. Never forget that after 10 years of cooperation and developments many issues will no longer bear the importance they bear today.

Well, Turkey has been banking first on the AP 2004 to save her, then on the new settlement talks based on the AP 2004 which has not happened and now hoping for something with the present talks to bear some fruit to keep the north and become a EU member at the same time and since she still has some time given to her by the EU on opening and closing chapters, Turkey has not been forced to make any moves yet on her decisions. But wait and see when Turkey's feet are put to the fire with future deadlines given to her to solve the Cyprus problem once and for all. She will be given only two options, "shit or get off the pot" as far as her EU desires go. Once Turkey pulls out of the EU talks, then I will agree with you, that Turkey will not throw the TC's under the bus, what's left of them in the north. At that point, she will be protecting mostly the settlers.

You are entitled to your views as I am mine and GCs are conditioned to churn out doom and gloom stories about the relationship between Turkey and the TCs, but to date all I have seen from Turkey is support in all areas of life, which we have never seen from anyone else, we will always be indebted to them. The RU have tried her hand in the opening of ports issue everyone thought Turkey would back down but she choose the TRNC over the EU, never under estimate Turkey it would be very unwise.

Well, it may come down to that. Just be prepared to return 50% of the north back to the RoC, then you can help Kifeas build that 8 meters wall between the north and the south, because there is no way the GC's will want to maintain any kind of relationship with the north once those TC's who will choose to move to the south, they will close the border.

As I have always said of course a certain % of land and a right for GCs to live in the recognized TRNC should be offered as incentive to finally bring this problem to a close. Build whatever you wish and close the border we have lived unrecognized that way for 34 years, we can easily do it recognized and with all the coastline we would enjoy.

You say you will not need the EU, and I'm glad to hear that, even though I don't think you are being sincere. You take every part of the EU Dollars now. Without being in the EU, you will have the same economy as Turkey if not worse once Turkey holds back the money she spends in the north now, as well as the same legal penal code, starting with article 301. But that's OK, because you don't believe in True Democracy anyway, and as long as you are on top of the political food chain, you will be OK, and if you are not, then it will be like "Animal Farm" for the rest.

Doom and gloom stories again, these would be our problem agree partition and we will take our chances, the rest will not concern you in the slightest you will be living the life of Riley with the GCs.

Haven't you been telling us for the last 2 1/2 years that I have been on the forum that you would like to see a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus problems. Just what the hell did you think that meant, that you will only have peace if you can grab as much as you can or else it is no go, and then turn around and accuse the GC's of not wanting peace by not willing to compromise to your liking. Which peace settlement negotiation school did you go to that says, unless you get everything, do not sign any peace deals with the GC's, and you wonder why the GC's rather keep the present situation going than give into your outrageous demands. I will fight for what we deserve and what is ours VP, but it takes two to tango, and unless the GC's are also at the dance floor, you will be dancing alone, and without peace with the GC's to give the north any legitimacy in the future, you will be "dancing" with the settlers, and what are you going to do when they will do the same to the TC's in demanding everything from you as you are from the GC's. Poetic justice comes to mind for starters.!

So you are advocating that we compromise to the liking of the GCs? your one sides viewpoint is yet again showing its ugly head, why not put forward what we should demand from GCs to guarantee our future and stop GC dominance, try arguing our side for a change it would out you in a much better light and make you more believable.

The settlers issue we have discussed to death please try not to drag it out, like it or not they are part of the TRNC and will stay as long as there is no solution to send them back together with the Pontian Greeks and other foreigners GCs have granted citizenship to.

As you know I am for agreed partition and test my belief against disillusioned hopefuls like you who think they have the answer to the solution that will solve the problem, you still have time before you wake up to the fact that there is and never will be agreement to unite, the day you do you to will support me.

[zan]

Turkeys recognition is what we have and a clear statement that division in her eyes has occured.

But to what end? When such a pro-recognition person as Expatkiwi made comments (on the ATCA form) about Turkey's actions actually doing more to undermine than support the north's UDI, and thus compromising the north's independence claim, it does make one think if the "Hatay precedent" is the actual desire of Ankara...

utu

I think you should concentrate more on the fight with the GCs and TCs rather than the Tc and GCs against Expat.....Will you also understand that when push comes to shove we choose Turkey over Greece. When push comes to shove. Expat is not important in our fight for our rights or to get on in the world. He is just another person that has shown an interest. His romantic dream of fighting the good fight is not the reality of a people stuck in limbo. If an opportunity is given to move forward then we will take it. By you keep saying at cost makes no difference. Perhaps you should ask yourself at what cost do we offer ourselves as lambs to the slaughter to the Greeks. At what cost do we stay in limbo HOPING that something gives. We can make it give with the help of Turkey and our own determination......