Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Sure did,I can also recall school children with Tshirts which read NO in greek shouting slogans against the AP (nice way to educate our young) and locals cars being smashed for displaying YES signs, Greek Flags everywhere, with slogans Cyprus is Greek, all this and you expect us to believe GCs read or understood the AP, crap they voted like sheep.

The pros & cons were discussed every night on all major channels by all political parties for like 2-3 months before the vote.

At the very least, people who watched TV were well aware of the important sections of the AP.

[Viewpoint]

Sure did,I can also recall school children with Tshirts which read NO in greek shouting slogans against the AP (nice way to educate our young) and locals cars being smashed for displaying YES signs, Greek Flags everywhere, with slogans Cyprus is Greek, all this and you expect us to believe GCs read or understood the AP, crap they voted like sheep.

The pros & cons were discussed every night on all major channels by all political parties for like 2-3 months before the vote.

At the very least, people who watched TV were well aware of the important sections of the AP.

Was that after your leader cried and you banned any the UN and EU from speaking on your local TV networks? or after the church whipped up the devil and hell on their sheep sorry flock...same thing really.

[zan]

Sure did,I can also recall school children with Tshirts which read NO in greek shouting slogans against the AP (nice way to educate our young) and locals cars being smashed for displaying YES signs, Greek Flags everywhere, with slogans Cyprus is Greek, all this and you expect us to believe GCs read or understood the AP, crap they voted like sheep.

The pros & cons were discussed every night on all major channels by all political parties for like 2-3 months before the vote.

At the very least, people who watched TV were well aware of the important sections of the AP.

We have seen what you can do with "Sections" of something GR.....Kifeas is a prime example of making pie seem like cake by not showing all the ingredients...Tpap did exactly that.....It was not an open discussion but a regime lead plot...The UN understand this and are pissed!!!!

[Get Real!]

VP & Zan,

I’m confident that those who had a secondary education or better, in other words the majority, were given and understood a good variety of viewpoints on TV every night to make an informed decision.

Don’t forget that DYSI (Anastasiades), a political party that usually gets around a third of the electorate, was in full support and promoting the AP every night so you can’t say the pro-camp didn’t get enough exposure.

[Kikapu]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

If you are trying to pedantic then the AP was 9256 pages long The fact is that 256 pages should have been easy to sort out with the right will by Tpap...Instead he chose to sabotage the whole thing and spend the money he was given for the positive to con his people into the OXI vote!!!! That is why people said OXI to it not because they had any idea what it was about.....Like you know!!!

As if anyone read and understood all 9,000+ plus pages Zan. When was the last time you read all the small prints when you rented a car or signed up for a credit card. Never I'm sure. We only look at those details when there is a problem to be told by those agencies that "Sorry MR, you should have read the fine prints when you signed up, so now you owe us this much".! I think people were smart to have refused something that they did not understand, because it was their future and country that was in the balance. The added incentives for the TC's was, aside from getting to keep and make the north pure Turkish state in a Confederation with a chance to become a independent country when wished for in the future while the GC's paid all of the financial cost, they were also told that isolation would be lifted if they voted YES. The TC's had nothing to lose by voting YES, because the isolation would be over no matter what the GC's did. Well, you have seen where that promise went, just as all the other promises. You also seem to forget, that Denktash also said NO, just as PapaD. So what makes Denktash right and not PapaD wrong.? If the GC's were mislead by PapaD, why are the GC's in their many thousands after 4 years are not begging to bring back the AP 2004 to say YES to.?

[Kikapu]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

What you advocate is a unitary state which is in reality what we do not have, we have 2 sides with equal weight on a solution so your mathematical wizardry does not mean democracy, you have to digest the fact that our YES is also vital for a solution just as the GCs NO stopped the last attempt. The basis for any solution will be the AP all that work and cost will not be allowed to go the drain just because GCs don't like it, a few alternations to accomadate GC concerns are the name of the day the rest will remain the same, so dismissing it the way you and other GCs do is really like putting your heads in the sand.

No VP, I'm not advocating a Unitary state as in the 1960 Constitution, and you know this from my support for a True Federation in the BBF, unless of course you call any Federal government a "Unitary State". Cyprus is one country, and will remain so, so this is what you have to get to use to, and within this country of Cyprus, there will be a 2 Federated states, north and south with single citizenship, and not the 2 seperate individual states (countries) that you and the AP 2004 had and hoped for. The GC's are not going to grant 30% of Cyprus to the TC's and Turkey to legally be separated from the rest of the island, because the present situation for them will be better than the above. Lets see how far the new "AP" will be improved to accommodate a True Federation and not a "sugar coated" Confederation-Partition.

[Byron]

Go to the AP and study it, you really need to do some research and not trust what is fed to you.

Grazie per aver scoperto l'acqua calda !!!

[DT.]

VP & Zan,

I’m confident that those who had a secondary education or better, in other words the majority, were given and understood a good variety of viewpoints on TV every night to make an informed decision.

Don’t forget that DYSI (Anastasiades), a political party that usually gets around a third of the electorate, was in full support and promoting the AP every night so you can’t say the pro-camp didn’t get enough exposure.

WTF Whst kind of a chill pill did you take? Sounds like you just smoked a small Jamaican mountain.

[Get Real!]

VP & Zan,

I’m confident that those who had a secondary education or better, in other words the majority, were given and understood a good variety of viewpoints on TV every night to make an informed decision.

Don’t forget that DYSI (Anastasiades), a political party that usually gets around a third of the electorate, was in full support and promoting the AP every night so you can’t say the pro-camp didn’t get enough exposure.

WTF Whst kind of a chill pill did you take? Sounds like you just smoked a small Jamaican mountain.

What?

[DT.]

VP & Zan,

I’m confident that those who had a secondary education or better, in other words the majority, were given and understood a good variety of viewpoints on TV every night to make an informed decision.

Don’t forget that DYSI (Anastasiades), a political party that usually gets around a third of the electorate, was in full support and promoting the AP every night so you can’t say the pro-camp didn’t get enough exposure.

WTF Whst kind of a chill pill did you take? Sounds like you just smoked a small Jamaican mountain.

What?

You just did 3 posts with zan and vp and not once did you mention their bottoms. You were actually very polite.