Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

[zan]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

If you are trying to pedantic then the AP was 9256 pages long The fact is that 256 pages should have been easy to sort out with the right will by Tpap...Instead he chose to sabotage the whole thing and spend the money he was given for the positive to con his people into the OXI vote!!!! That is why people said OXI to it not because they had any idea what it was about.....Like you know!!!

[Viewpoint]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

What you advocate is a unitary state which is in reality what we do not have, we have 2 sides with equal weight on a solution so your mathematical wizardry does not mean democracy, you have to digest the fact that our YES is also vital for a solution just as the GCs NO stopped the last attempt. The basis for any solution will be the AP all that work and cost will not be allowed to go the drain just because GCs don't like it, a few alternations to accomadate GC concerns are the name of the day the rest will remain the same, so dismissing it the way you and other GCs do is really like putting your heads in the sand.

[Viewpoint]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

How many GCs read or understood the AP, they voted like sheep as I recall there was a GC lady coming out of the polling station they asked what she voted, she said well our leader was on the television crying telling us to vote no and the church told us we would burn in hell if we voted Yes, so I voted NO, sums up the GC vote really don't you think? If the GCs had of voted YES they would have gotten Maraş back, a further 7% of land, some of the Turkish Army would have left according to a timetable and settlers would have been sent back to Turkey with no more being admitted, best of a solution to years of disputes and division what have they got with their resounding NO? Jack shit.

[Byron]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

How many GCs read or understood the AP, they voted like sheep as I recall there was a GC lady coming out of the polling station they asked what she voted, she said well our leader was on the television crying telling us to vote no and the church told us we would burn in hell if we voted Yes, so I voted NO, sums up the GC vote really don't you think? If the GCs had of voted YES they would have gotten Maraş back, a further 7% of land, some of the Turkish Army would have left according to a timetable and settlers would have been sent back to Turkey with no more being admitted, best of a solution to years of disputes and division what have they got with their resounding NO? Jack shit.

What was the exact timetable for withdrawal of the TURKISH army and settlers please ?

[Viewpoint]

Go to the AP and study it, you really need to do some research and not trust what is fed to you.

[coremax]

VP, here's some help for you and for your eyes only

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/97508.php

[Viewpoint]

VP, here's some help for you and for your eyes only

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/97508.php

Exactly the case in the GC south Cyprus where the politicians and religious leaders represent the few who lead the sheep.

[DT.]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

How many GCs read or understood the AP, they voted like sheep as I recall there was a GC lady coming out of the polling station they asked what she voted, she said well our leader was on the television crying telling us to vote no and the church told us we would burn in hell if we voted Yes, so I voted NO, sums up the GC vote really don't you think? If the GCs had of voted YES they would have gotten Maraş back, a further 7% of land, some of the Turkish Army would have left according to a timetable and settlers would have been sent back to Turkey with no more being admitted, best of a solution to years of disputes and division what have they got with their resounding NO? Jack shit.

You didn't really recall a GC old woman saying that did you?

[Viewpoint]

May I also give a piece of information about the so called dead AP, do you know that it is being used as a basis for the current talks? Lawyer friends taking part in the negotiations confirmed this fact to me, so dismissing it the way you do is very comical.

Annan Plan 2004 was over 9,000 pages long VP. Nobody ever said that all 9,000+ pages were bad. However, 9,000+ pages of the AP 2004 as a total package was rejected that would have transformed a Unitary state of the RoC into a Confederacy states or worse, with vilotions of Cypriots Democratic and Human Rights. Once corrections are made to those violations to protect all Cypriots in a True Federation as in the BBF, then you can call the next package "Annan Plan" once again if it makes you feel better.

Did you know, that percentage wise, if you combined all Cypriots vote on the AP 2004, approximately 55% Cypriots said NO to the AP 2004 versus 45% who said YES. That is a landslide with 10% more saying NO to the AP 2004. Let the next "AP" be a True Federation and True Democracy, and you will see those numbers change to 55% YES and 45% NO. Isn't that what we want in peace, to have the majority of Cypriots say YES to any peace plan and not just the minority.

How many times have you got to be told...The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws........True democracy would have been Tpap negotiating with intent to solve rather than sabotage.

That's what I said Zan, AP was 9,000+ pages.

I guess that is different than what you are saying "The AP was 256 or so pages long with 9000 pages of byelaws.."

I have no doubt that PapaD had no intentions on ever accepting the AP after certain point and said nothing, because he knew that the EU membership for Cyprus was a done deal, therefore the RoC would have a "stick" over the TC's and Turkey's head to whack 'em with when the right time came to get a better deal as Turkey tries to become a EU member. The mistake the TC's and Turkey made was, they took advantages of PapaD's intentions and pushed the AP 2004 so far into their favour, that average GC's also said NO to it. Very simple really. Had the AP was more balanced and really seeked a Fair and Just settlement, we would not be having this conversation right now. What PapaD did or did not do had absolutely nothing to do with Democracy. What the Cypriot citizen did by either voting for it or against it during the referendum, is what was Democratic. They said NO to AP 2004 overwhelmingly.

How many GCs read or understood the AP, they voted like sheep as I recall there was a GC lady coming out of the polling station they asked what she voted, she said well our leader was on the television crying telling us to vote no and the church told us we would burn in hell if we voted Yes, so I voted NO, sums up the GC vote really don't you think? If the GCs had of voted YES they would have gotten Maraş back, a further 7% of land, some of the Turkish Army would have left according to a timetable and settlers would have been sent back to Turkey with no more being admitted, best of a solution to years of disputes and division what have they got with their resounding NO? Jack shit.

You didn't really recall a GC old woman saying that did you?

Sure did,I can also recall school children with Tshirts which read NO in greek shouting slogans against the AP (nice way to educate our young) and locals cars being smashed for displaying YES signs, Greek Flags everywhere, with slogans Cyprus is Greek, all this and you expect us to believe GCs read or understood the AP, crap they voted like sheep.