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Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:17 pm

Kifeas wrote:"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!


Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:22 pm

Piratis wrote:
Which came first? Enosis or Taksim?


Enosis = The struggle for freedom of all the Greek territories from foreign rule and the creation of one united free Greek state, come in 1821.

What came first was the invasion and oppression of the Turks against us.

Enosis was the right of the Cypriot people. How was it fine for Cyprus to be part of the British or Ottoman empires against the will of the Cypriot people, but not fine for Cyprus to be part of a free Greek state as the vast majority of Cypriots wanted?

So what came first was your first invasion and occupation from 1571-1878. What came second was your attacks, 80 years later, in 1958, and what came 3rd your invasion in 1974.

In all cases you started the wars and conflicts with the aim to stop Cyprus from being free and Cypriots deciding their own destiny in a democratic way.

The only thing we asked and fought for was for our freedom and self-determination from foreign rulers, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We never asked from you to be our slaves, in the way you treated us like slaves for most of your history on this island, neither we asked from you to give up your human rights or land, the way you have done against us in 1974. If you had not choose to fight against us in order to keep us enslaved, then there would be no conflicts and no suffering for either side. But of course you could never allow Cypriots to decide anything in a democratic way. You always had to attack and try to impose your will by force. (and then come here and cry because in the conflicts which you started you also suffered and also had some casualties!!)


You still dont get it enosis was not your right and meant the end for TCs, so faced with being given to Greece and definate persecution discrimination and death TCs siding with the English should not have been a big suprise, after all it was our heads that were on the chopping block no matter how much you "say" everything would be fine. Taksim was a direct countering of enosis and you know it the rest of your post is the usual rhetoric which does not excuse your wrong doings.
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Postby Nikitas » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:51 pm

Objectively speaking VP, and I mean this as an observer, having seen how the Turks of Rhodos and Kos live, TCs would have been better off living in Greece than in the TRNC. That is for the TCs, for the GCs it would have been worse. I am leaving out the ideological side of the issuse, just focusing on practicalities.
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Postby Nikitas » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:58 pm

Bir said:

"the real TCs who hold most of the government jobs,have a much higher standard of living than the average person in Turkey...This is causing resentment amongst some of the AKP apparatchikis who want to bring the TCs into line..."

Which echoes the attitude of mainland Greeks towards GCs in the 60s till the 80s. And they used the same idiotic arguments, that we were financed by the British, we "had it so good", we all had big flash cars etc.

If and when a solution comes and the TCs standard of living climbs even higher the accusations of desertion will be even worse.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:03 am

Nikitas wrote:Objectively speaking VP, and I mean this as an observer, having seen how the Turks of Rhodos and Kos live, TCs would have been better off living in Greece than in the TRNC. That is for the TCs, for the GCs it would have been worse. I am leaving out the ideological side of the issuse, just focusing on practicalities.


But we would have been labeled Greek muslims and forced to in Greece, this is what we fought against and do not want, just as we do not want to be forced to live in a GC state run by GCs.
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Postby Byron » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:29 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!


Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.


Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.
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Postby utu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:14 am

Byron wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!


Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.


Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.


Maybe that question should be expanded. Are the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots in favor of partition either as a sovereign state, or as part of Turkey? As the title of the north has has it's first two words "Turkish Republic", it sounds like the latter is what is wanted...
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:50 am

Byron wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!


Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.


Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.


YES because the alternative is clear and would force TCs to live in a GC state run by GCs leaving us exposed with no community rights just classed as another minority, foreigners in our own country.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:55 am

utu wrote:
Byron wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!


Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.


Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.


Maybe that question should be expanded. Are the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots in favor of partition either as a sovereign state, or as part of Turkey? As the title of the north has has it's first two words "Turkish Republic", it sounds like the latter is what is wanted...


What difference does it make? as long as we have agreed a solution which will release us from the inhumane GC imposed isolations.
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:57 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
A financially indepedent unrecognized TRNC would mean we could stand on our own 2 feet and show more flexibilty towards GC demands, plus it would be less of a financial burden if we should decide to unite. The GCs are cutting their noses off despite their faces.


I think the GC's may grant the TC's as you ask VP, a financially independent unrecognised "trnc", providing, in my view;

a) that the TC's does not occupy more than 18% of the north
b) that the Turkish Army leaves
c) that the RoC has complete control of it's borders and immigration
d) that the International laws are obeyed
e) that all Cypriots Human Rights are restored
f) that there is a complete freedom of movement in all of Cyprus.

The TC's in effect will have their own state with their own state and local government without international representation for that state or representatives in the RoC. The state will operate it's own ports for commerce, attract investments from anywhere in the world to generate money to run that state to meets it's fiscal budgets so that it is able to care for their own community as well as for others living in that state. That state will runs it's schools, hospitals, tourism, and all others as if it were an independent sovereign country. The RoC will give financial assistance to rebuild the infrastructure of the north on a 50%-50% basis for "Federal projects", such as Highways, Communications, Ports and so on, with the north state paying 50% of the cost.

(since the north state will not be paying any "Federal taxes" to the RoC, the cost will be shared on a 50-50 basis, but once the north state starts paying "Fedral taxes" in the future, if they choose to become part of the "new Federal country", then it will become 90%-10%, with the Federal money becoming 90% of the cost and the state's cost will be 10%. This will help the north to bring their infrastructure up to the rest of the country)

The north state will remain independent but always as territory of the RoC and until the times comes to be part of the RoC, that state will remain out of the EU as an independent state, but rather that state will gain benefits from the EU via the RoC. All Cypriots will remain a citizens of the RoC for their ID and Passports. Only when the independent north state becomes part of the RoC in a new True Federation country, that the north state will also engage in the government of the new country of United States of Cyprus under True Democracy with political equality. The north state can choose when they feel comfortable to become part of the new country without deadlines, the United States of Cyprus. Until the above happens, I do not believe the RoC is going to be willing to see the north prosper by lifting the isolation. There has to be "carrots and sticks" approach to reunite the island in a true sense of the word. If the north now had all the "carrots" under the present conditions as any other sovereign country, where is the incentive to be part of the new United States of Cyprus country.

I believe the answer is, NONE.!
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