Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

Utu, on the one hand you are sad that the TCs are “ignorant” to their independence and on the other you have no answer as to HOW they will survive. I find that pretty strange… if I were you I’d worry about the economy FIRST and independence second. What is the point of hoisting an independence flag just to watch such a state fall apart 2-3 months later?

There's no contradiction, GR. Think: An independent country needs to have an autonomous governent and an economy under their own control. Now, the north declared UDI 25 years ago. A number of people up north believe that this sole action makes them a country. However - as we all know - their economy is dependent upon Turkey, and the administration is subserivent to Ankara. so, despite people seeing a flag and assuming that they are sovereign, the reality is that in practice, that sovereignty is an illusion. The facade of independence is a mask covering what is a de facto Turkish colony. So if Turkey turns off the tap, so to speak, how is that declaration of independence going to keep them afloat?

[zan]

A couple of questions for Utu…

1. Doesn’t it strike you that Turkey has NEVER suggested all these decades a separate TC state to anyone?

2. Given that around 40% of TCs in the “TRNC” are “government employees” twiddling their thumbs all day waiting for the 500 million p/a to come from Turkey so they can go home with a salary each month, how do you actually think an independent TC state will survive when Turkey turns the tap off?

They imply their acceptance of the UDI by recognizing the breakaway state and exchanging 'ambassadors', but the Turkish 'ambassador' to north Nicosia is in effect the Colonial Governor. It's a crude facade of recognition while maintaining control.

For your second question, if Turkey turns off the money to the north, then things will - not maybe - go bad very soon. Economic dependency on Turkey is the north's Achilles Heel...

You accept that without Turkey, we will be starved out and then wonder at why we are loyal to them? Even if we all saw them as the enemy, why would we turn them away? Lets make some sense here!

That's what I mean, Zan. Your loyalty to Turkey is because Turkey is the one thing keeping the north afloat. As you said earlier: if that is the situation you prefer - and that is the economic reality - then why have a facade of independence? Turkey might as well formally annex the north. It would be more honest.

You speak as if it happened out of thin air. They came when we needed them...The rest has happened over time with help from the "RoC".

[Viewpoint]

VP,

Who has ever suggested that TCs should live in a GC state as a minority? Since 1977 we are talking BBF till we are sick of it. The ones changing the game plan all the time are the TC negotiators and Turkey with ad hoc inventions like confederation, then came the TRNC and now the idiot idea of virgin birth. You are trying to be a little provocative with this thread aren't you! Just a little!

We are also talking BBF with political equality, why cant we agree?

[Viewpoint]

No TC out there want to live with GCs in a GC state run by GCs? anyone?

Noooo....we all want to live with Anatolian Turks in a Turkish state run by Ankara...

You have your GC brothers to thank for that.

Yeah sure...any excuse to help your conscience..

Remember the isolation tactics which starte din 1963 and continue until this day.

VP
You are not educated enough on the subject to lecture me on Cyprus history.
I know more than you will ever know.

If you are so wise then why not share it with us so we can understand why the TC population do not trust GCs and always refer back to the problems and fears they experienced at the hands of the majority in 1963 and why they do not want unfication GC style, what makes them all wrong and you right?

Why do you only think it's the Turkish community not trusting GC community?
Have you ever asked yourself if they trust TC's and the reason they don't?
Thanks to Eoka & TMT too much blood has been shed from both communities to create this mistrust.
GC's wanted Enosis,TC's wanted Taksim and what ever was necessary to achieve their goal had to be done.
Including killing their own to blame the other.

Let's just say we are not as innocent as you have been made to believe VP...

Which came first? Enosis or Taksim?

[humanist]

I'd like to know which part of the trnc Talat will give away to the Maronite population to creat their own independent litle state?

[Viewpoint]

My question to all of you is ......... who will pick up the mess once Turkey has turned the tap off? hmmmmmmmm .... the RoC perhaps? As you would have read the article I posted earlier this week Turkey has turned the tap off cause the holding tank is running dry for the 70 od million ppl in Turkey itself.

This is purely a wishful thinking on behalf of the GCs, they love to churn out doom and gloom..Turkey will never turn off the tap...in 10 years time you will still be saying the same things.

[Viewpoint]

A couple of questions for Utu…

1. Doesn’t it strike you that Turkey has NEVER suggested all these decades a separate TC state to anyone?

2. Given that around 40% of TCs in the “TRNC” are “government employees” twiddling their thumbs all day waiting for the 500 million p/a to come from Turkey so they can go home with a salary each month, how do you actually think an independent TC state will survive when Turkey turns the tap off?

They imply their acceptance of the UDI by recognizing the breakaway state and exchanging 'ambassadors', but the Turkish 'ambassador' to north Nicosia is in effect the Colonial Governor. It's a crude facade of recognition while maintaining control.

For your second question, if Turkey turns off the money to the north, then things will - not maybe - go bad very soon. Economic dependency on Turkey is the north's Achilles Heel...

You accept that without Turkey, we will be starved out and then wonder at why we are loyal to them? Even if we all saw them as the enemy, why would we turn them away? Lets make some sense here!

That's what I mean, Zan. Your loyalty to Turkey is because Turkey is the one thing keeping the north afloat. As you said earlier: if that is the situation you prefer - and that is the economic reality - then why have a facade of independence? Turkey might as well formally annex the north. It would be more honest.

utu why dont you direct your questions to the GCsand EU as why they will not allow us to become economically independent of Turkey?

[Viewpoint]

The TCs remind me of a teenager who wants to leave home early and move into a place of his own so that he could be his own boss and live the life that he’s always dreamed of without having an income…

Perhaps an ad in the paper should do it: Does anyone want to adopt an overgrown teenager who wants to do his own thing but can’t afford it?

But you conveniently forget that it is you that will not allow that teenager to work.

[Viewpoint]

I'd like to know which part of the trnc Talat will give away to the Maronite population to creat their own independent litle state?

They have minority rights in the GC state run by GCs, they threw their lot in with you guys not us.

[utu]

utu why dont you direct your questions to the GCsand EU as why they will not allow us to become economically independent of Turkey?

I see your logic: "the isolations imposed from outside have forced us to be dependent upon Turkey", is what you are saying. If your entity was recognized, do you think that it would be all that different? Given Turkey's position in relation to the north of Cyprus (plus the use of the New Turkish Lira as your currency), there would still be a disproportionately large chunk of economic influence from Ankara. Also, I had mentioned Somaliland. They are not recognized by ANY country, yet their economy is actually very stable.