BirKibrisli wrote:Okey,Piratis...Here we go...These are the arguments RAUF DENKTASH would come up with....
But not you?
1. Nobody asked us either if we wanted to come here...We were forcibly brought ...That was how Empires behaved back in 1571....
Blame the Ottomans for it then. Not our fault.
If they brought you to a place were you are incompatible with the native population and you can not live along with them in a democratic way, then now you are free to go back to the place they forcefully brought from and where you will feel right at home and compatible with the rest of population. But I would be glad if you could accept the 80%+ of Cypriots for what they are, and accept to live with us as equal Cypriot citizens.
2. You were oppressed by the Venetians...The Ottomans came and saved you...The Orthodox Church prospered under the Ottomans...We were very liberal with our rule..When we left 300 odd years later you were still in the majority and you could still speak your language and practise your religion...That proves the Ottoman rule was not oppressive at all...You should be thanking us,not forgiving us...
The Ottomans were just as oppressive as any other foreign ruler. They came to Cyprus to enslave and exploit Cyprus and the Cypriot people and not to "save us". The only reason they kept us alive is the reason slaves are kept alive: To be exploited. We paid double the taxes than the Muslims did, and our testimony was not even accepted in courts. The church was used by the Ottomans as tax collectors. Any time the church would dare to say anything in defense of the Cypriot people they would be executed, like it happened to Archbishop Kyprianos and many others in 1821.
3.You had no rights..It was us who got cheated out of the whole of Cyprus by the British...We only rented/leased Cyprus to the British....They did a dirty deed and tore up the contract when we were weak...Cyprus should have been returned to her rightful owner,Turkey...Turkey was the continuation of the Ottoman Empire...So be thankful for small mercies...
This is a prime example of Imperialistic Aggressive way of thinking of many Turks. They didn't realize that the Middle Ages are over, that Colonialism is now illegal, and that a territory belongs to the native people of that territory, and not to any foreign imposed empires.
4.The EOKA were blood thirsty terrorists....They killed women and children from behind, often in cold blood ...Remember Sampson??? He was the biggest murderer of all...He hated Turks with a vengence...EOKA killed many innocent TCs to ethnically cleans them from their homes and property starting from 1955...
EOKA was formed to fight the Colonialists and that is what it did until the TCs decided to join the Colonialists and attacked innocent Greek Cypriots. I posted the videos that show the events in those years. Watch them again.
5.Nobody forced Makarios to sign anything...He knew exactly was he was doing...And he had no intention of honouring his signature...Before the ink was dry he was plotting to gift Cyprus to Greece...He knew well we couldn't accept his 13 proposals...He knew we wouldn't let him take our rights and safeguards away,and turn us into a minority at the mercy of the GCs...
Here you are contradicting yourself. Why would somebody have no intention to hounour something that he likes? Obviously he didn't like it if he had no intention of hounouring it. And if he didn't like it, then why did he sign it? The only answer is: Because he was forced to.
The fact is that the Cypriot people were denied their self-determination and instead of being allowed to unite with Greece or create their own constitution, some foreigners forced on us what would serve their interests and not ours (and that is why we wanted to change them)
6. Everything was the GCs fault...They turned Cyprus into a bloodbath..They were killing TCs from day one...We didn't pu;ll out,we were forced out of government...We were ethnically cleansed from hundreds of villages in 1963,our homes looted,our human rights trumpled upon by the GCs....They stole the RoC government and made us second class citizens in our own country...
Day one was in 1571, and the Turks killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots. From day 2 until approximately day 112055 (those are a lot of days) the Turks oppressed Cypriots and murdered several 1000s of them on several occasions. Then after a brake of about 80 years, and while the GCs had already forgiven the Turks for all that suffering earlier on, the Turks attacked again innocent people, looting shops and homes of innocent Greek Cypriots (see video I gave earlier). And yes, to your attacks we responded. What did you expect?
7. The TMT were brave freedom fighters....They protected the TCs from the Eoka terrorists....No one needed to tell the TCs what to do...They were afraid of their lives and with good cause...Without TMT not a single TC would be left alive during 1963 and 74....
TMT was formed in 1958. There was no conflict between GCs and TCs then. The conflict started
after TMT was created due to TMT's actions.
8..The coup leaders were acting on instructions from Greece...Their aim was to achieve Enosis finally...That is why they made the arch-terrorist Sampson the President...Once he had dealt with the leftist GCs Sampson would ahve attacked and killed all our men and raped all our women...Even our mothers wouldn't be safe from Sampson's murdering hordes...
Would have been this, would have been that. You always start the wars and conflicts by attacking us and killing 1000s of innocent people and then you are trying to excuse your actual attacks which result in real deaths and real suffering using "would have been" imaginary scenarios.
9. Turkey had every right to intervene under the treaty of guaranty...Ours was a peace operation...We brought peace not only to the TCs but also to the GCs....Sampson was going to wipe out thousands of Akel and Makarios supporters had Turkey not come...Thousands of GC people living today owe their lives to the Turkish Peace operation...
The treaty of guaranty (yet another thing forced on the Cypriot people) explicitly states that any intervention should be
only to restore the constitution. Also it explicitly prohibits partition. Therefore Turkey not only didn't act in accordance with the treaty of gurantee, but they actually violated it. (about what "would have been" see previous answer)
10. The Turkish army is the most disiplined in the whole world...They would never carry out acts such as civilian murders or rapes....As I said They brought peace to the island...There has been no intercommunal figting since the arrival or Turkish troops....It was the GCs who massacred whole villages of TCs after the 1974 peace operation...WE had to separate the two sides for their own protection....We bestowed human rights onto the GCs not robbed them of their rights...
The invasion murdered many innocent people and we are still finding their bodies in mass graves. The TCs who were killed in 1974 were killed only
after the Turkish invasion started, and only after your atrocities against us. As always, you start the war/ conflict, and then you cry because you also had some casualties in the war/conflict you started.
11.What you want is to turn Cyprus into a Greek island...You even elected Papadopoulos,a certifed EOKA terrorist and the engineer of the Akritas Plan which was the blueprint of how the TCs would be reduced to a simple minority,their political rights stolen,and if necessary they would be exterminated to serve the cause of Enosis and Hellenism...
Cyprus is a Greek island, and TCs are a minority. Simple facts. You are welcome to stay in this island as the ethnic minority that you are, with your full human and democratic rights. But if you continue collaborating with foreigners in order to undemocratically impose on us your will, then yes we will continue to fight against you.
12. Cyprus has never been a Greek island...At no stage in their history did the GCs ever rule in Cyprus...They were always subjects of other civilisations and empires..Cyprus was ruled by the Ottomans for over 300 years...And it was stolen from us by the British...Cyprus was Turkish and will always remain Turkish...
Greek Cypriots did rule Cyprus for some years and it also belonged to the Greek Byzantine empire for far longer than it was under the Ottoman empire (which you claim was not Turkish). Also the modern Greek Republic was only formed in 1821, are you going to claim that Athens was not Greek until 1821?
But the most important is what I said already in another answer. We are not living in the Middle Ages anymore. Today there are no empires and Colonial powers. At this age people have recognized that human rights should exist and that the people of a territory should have their self-determination, and not be the subjects of any foreign imposed empire.
The discussion is far from concluded,Piratis...And it will never be,as long as the two sides have the beliefs and arguments I have outlined in this thread...Imagine sitting down to negotiate a just and lasting solution armed with these opposing views...I know you believe TRUTH is on your side,but that is exactly what Rauf Denktash and most TCs believe too...
No one of course has the monopoly on the Truth...But as long as no one is prepared to compromise and try to see the other's points of view,Cyprob will remain unsolved...Each passing year making the status quo more and more permanent...The truth lies somewhere in the middle. But we will never uncover it as long as we think we have the truth only on our side....That is the tragedy facing us today,thanks mostly to people who think like you and Denktash......
Bir, first of all thank you for giving the chance to reply to those baseless arguments. It was extremely easy for me, and I didn't try to avoid any of them by saying "oh, but thats too old", or any other lame excuses.
Now instead of hiding behind an imaginary Dektash maybe you should tell us what your own position is on the true historical facts of the Cyprus problem and its roots.
I do not hold extreme positions, I don't go around saying "TCs are evil and should be punished", "TCs never had any losses in the conflicts, they only killed our own", or anything of that sort. I am just stating the historical facts, many of which I have learned from TCs on this site.
So if there is something you think I got wrong, then I ask you again to provide the historical facts and show to me that I am wrong. If I am wrong about a point and you show this to me by providing facts, then I would be glad to modify that point accordingly. Deal?
But don't ask from me to accept things which are untrue just so I will make TCs feel better and make them like me more. I am not that type of person.
In school I was often alone in fighting against the crap of the religion teachers. I never accepted their illogical fairy tales just so they would like me and give me good grades.
