Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

There are real concerns , not imaginary but very real , amongst the T/Cs that their existence on THEIR island is under a continued and an increasing risk from the settlers and from Turkeys continued occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus. Thousands upon thousands of Turkish Cypriots have left the shores of Cyprus , some vowing never to return unless a solution unifying our island is found. Power hungry Turkish mainland officials are dictating the policy and demand acceptance by the native T/Cs.
It is tragic that the T/Cs , very much an integral part of Cyprus , could soon disappear or swallowed up by Turkey.
I feel that the RoC is not doing enough to encourage and support the beleaguered T/Cs , more action is needed to relay the message to our Cypriot compatriots that this island is theirs just as much as it is ours and that they have FULL rights just as any other Cypriot regardless whether they belong to a " perceived" minority or not , because a Cypriot in Cyprus is NOT part of a minority if he is a committed Cypriot . I will never see the T/Cs as a minority with minority rights , I have full rights in the UK , not minority rights, and nothing less should be accorded to our compatriots.
It is crucial that the current talks produce a solution before it is too late and we find our selves with a couple of million Anatolians in Northern Cyprus.

Who will administer those rights? the structure is the key miltiades TCs would rather be swallowed up by Turks than enter an agreement that will leave us at the mercy of the GCs.

I understand concerns raised , that is why I believe that the RoC OUGHT TO PRIORATISE ITS EFFORTS in arriving at a plan of action implementing the restoration of trust by actions and not words , by increasing tenfold the ongoing interaction activities amongst our people , such as tomorrows joint event by schoolchildren in Nicosia , by instilling upon the teachers at schools the need to cultivate a constructive and sympathetic approach to bring our youngsters together because they are tomorrow's Cypriots.
My closeness to the T/Cs is the byproduct of interaction , of knowing them , socialize with them debate and do business with them , get to know their inner feelings , their concerns and aspirations , not read about them from some propaganda publication but real life encounters .

[Viewpoint]

There are real concerns , not imaginary but very real , amongst the T/Cs that their existence on THEIR island is under a continued and an increasing risk from the settlers and from Turkeys continued occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus. Thousands upon thousands of Turkish Cypriots have left the shores of Cyprus , some vowing never to return unless a solution unifying our island is found. Power hungry Turkish mainland officials are dictating the policy and demand acceptance by the native T/Cs.
It is tragic that the T/Cs , very much an integral part of Cyprus , could soon disappear or swallowed up by Turkey.
I feel that the RoC is not doing enough to encourage and support the beleaguered T/Cs , more action is needed to relay the message to our Cypriot compatriots that this island is theirs just as much as it is ours and that they have FULL rights just as any other Cypriot regardless whether they belong to a " perceived" minority or not , because a Cypriot in Cyprus is NOT part of a minority if he is a committed Cypriot . I will never see the T/Cs as a minority with minority rights , I have full rights in the UK , not minority rights, and nothing less should be accorded to our compatriots.
It is crucial that the current talks produce a solution before it is too late and we find our selves with a couple of million Anatolians in Northern Cyprus.

Who will administer those rights? the structure is the key miltiades TCs would rather be swallowed up by Turks than enter an agreement that will leave us at the mercy of the GCs.

I understand concerns raised , that is why I believe that the RoC OUGHT TO PRIORATISE ITS EFFORTS in arriving at a plan of action implementing the restoration of trust by actions and not words , by increasing tenfold the ongoing interaction activities amongst our people , such as tomorrows joint event by schoolchildren in Nicosia , by instilling upon the teachers at schools the need to cultivate a constructive and sympathetic approach to bring our youngsters together because they are tomorrow's Cypriots.
My closeness to the T/Cs is the byproduct of interaction , of knowing them , socialize with them debate and do business with them , get to know their inner feelings , their concerns and aspirations , not read about them from some propaganda publication but real life encounters .

Its not the TCs we are worried about its the true intentions of the GCs that are dubious and questionable.

[Kikapu]

By the way VP, what was the other option other than the TC's wanting to live as a minority under a GC state.????

Could it be that you want the TC's to live as equals under a GC state.!!!

Which one of the above choices would you choose for yourself.??

Please clarify.!

The concern is not exactly being outnumbered but the way the majority will treat the minority and what safeguards will make sure they do the right thing, the past tells us GCs are not to be trusted with our well being or future, thats why the 1960 agreements were put in place and why today we still need a safety net. We cannot risk regretting taking this step forward leaving us exposed and at the mercy of the majority who can use their numbers to the detrement of TCs.

VP,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, are you now saying that you don't mind living as a minority in a GC state, and when we talk about a GC state, I assume you are talking about a Unitary state and that your only concerns are the "safeguards", since a Federation states will remove most of your concerns needed as "safeguards" (which I will give them to you soon). If that is the case, I don't know why Bir and Piratis went round and round on this issue for two days, because Piratis has already told you that if you want to be considered as a minority, you can have all the "safeguards" you want, as long as they do not take away his Democratic and Human Rights to give them to you.!

You are surprising me more and more lately. First your acceptance of a one man one vote system and now want to live as a minority in a GC state. What will you surprise us with next, I wonder.?

You will never know me Kikapu as you have never really tried to understand where I am coming from, a BBF is just one of the safeguards TCs need to move forward with creating one island. Piratis and Bir, You and I are prime examples of why this island will never unite we do not share the same vision and will not be forced into a partnership that does not conform to our expectations.

They say that, when in Paris, live like the French.! When in Rome, live like the Romans.! When in the EU, live like the Europeans.!
(I added this one). The point is VP, if your expectations are other than the expectations and values of Europeans, then you are right, that we will never see anything eye to eye, because what the Europeans see are respect for Democracy, Human Rights and International Laws. It seems to me like, that you are the odd man out here and you are not going to convince the rest of Europe to forgo those principles and values just to accommodate you and your expectations if they in fact different than the above, and if they are VP, then comes the question for you, which is, what are your other realistic options available for you if Turkey continues in wanting to be in the EU also, and actually makes it.?

[Viewpoint]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

[Get Real!]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

Sixty pages on and you're nowhere nearer at getting an answer to your baffling question... "Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?" ...so how about I save you another sixty by answering it?

Those TCs who don’t want to live in a GC state as a minority should go to Turkey and join the majority.

[doesntmatter]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

Sixty pages on and you're nowhere nearer at getting an answer to your baffling question... "Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?" ...so how about I save you another sixty by answering it?

Those TCs who don’t want to live in a GC state as a minority should go to Turkey and join the majority.

I believe the answer to VP's question is, definitely not, and we'll stay right where we are thank you very much.

[Get Real!]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

Sixty pages on and you're nowhere nearer at getting an answer to your baffling question... "Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?" ...so how about I save you another sixty by answering it?

Those TCs who don’t want to live in a GC state as a minority should go to Turkey and join the majority.

I believe the answer to VP's question is, definitely not, and we'll stay right where we are thank you very much.

Then hurry up and have many babies...

[doesntmatter]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

Sixty pages on and you're nowhere nearer at getting an answer to your baffling question... "Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?" ...so how about I save you another sixty by answering it?

Those TCs who don’t want to live in a GC state as a minority should go to Turkey and join the majority.

I believe the answer to VP's question is, definitely not, and we'll stay right where we are thank you very much.

Then hurry up and have many babies...

80,000,000 enough for you?

[BirKibrisli]

By the way VP, what was the other option other than the TC's wanting to live as a minority under a GC state.????

Could it be that you want the TC's to live as equals under a GC state.!!!

Which one of the above choices would you choose for yourself.??

Please clarify.!

The concern is not exactly being outnumbered but the way the majority will treat the minority and what safeguards will make sure they do the right thing, the past tells us GCs are not to be trusted with our well being or future, thats why the 1960 agreements were put in place and why today we still need a safety net. We cannot risk regretting taking this step forward leaving us exposed and at the mercy of the majority who can use their numbers to the detrement of TCs.

VP,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, are you now saying that you don't mind living as a minority in a GC state, and when we talk about a GC state, I assume you are talking about a Unitary state and that your only concerns are the "safeguards", since a Federation states will remove most of your concerns needed as "safeguards" (which I will give them to you soon). If that is the case, I don't know why Bir and Piratis went round and round on this issue for two days, because Piratis has already told you that if you want to be considered as a minority, you can have all the "safeguards" you want, as long as they do not take away his Democratic and Human Rights to give them to you.!

You are surprising me more and more lately. First your acceptance of a one man one vote system and now want to live as a minority in a GC state. What will you surprise us with next, I wonder.?

You will never know me Kikapu as you have never really tried to understand where I am coming from, a BBF is just one of the safeguards TCs need to move forward with creating one island. Piratis and Bir, You and I are prime examples of why this island will never unite we do not share the same vision and will not be forced into a partnership that does not conform to our expectations.

They say that, when in Paris, live like the French.! When in Rome, live like the Romans.! When in the EU, live like the Europeans.!
(I added this one). The point is VP, if your expectations are other than the expectations and values of Europeans, then you are right, that we will never see anything eye to eye, because what the Europeans see are respect for Democracy, Human Rights and International Laws. It seems to me like, that you are the odd man out here and you are not going to convince the rest of Europe to forgo those principles and values just to accommodate you and your expectations if they in fact different than the above, and if they are VP, then comes the question for you, which is, what are your other realistic options available for you if Turkey continues in wanting to be in the EU also, and actually makes it.?

Kikapu,
I have just had some visitors from the trnc...Old friends who have never left the island,and who still live and work there...A couple in their 50s....
I questioned them at length about life in the trnc. Yes,they are concerned about the number of settlers and how that is impacting on the TC society and culture..But they still believe that without the Turkish soldiers their lives and the lives of their children would be at risk....So,what Viewpoint says is correct...Most TCs living in Cyprus now would rather assimilate into the Turkish society than risk their physical safety...

You and I can argue from a distance about the virtues of democracy and European civilisation,but it cuts no ice with these people...They think they need special protection...I think it was Samarkeolog who put his finger on the problem, perhaps earlier in this thread..In democracies no one needs special consideration or protection...The state security forces are capable of protecting everyone....But if the state and its security forces are dominated and controled by individuals or groups who are hostile to a certain minority,then this minority does need special protection/safeguards...This was the case in Cyprus during 1963-74....At least that was the perception within TC minds....The times have changed,but nothing has been done to convince the TCs during the past 34 years that this is the case...Old fears are still there almost as fresh as in 1964...This is the tragedy we are facing...All those years lost,where, as miltiades says,much could have been done to instal trust and confidence...
Words of reassurance are not enough...Action is needed to convince the TCs that the present lot of power wielders and controllers of security forces in the RoC are not hostile to the TCs....No action is forthcoming...Only insistance by some that "Cyprus is Greek"....

Don't you think there is a problem here????

[Get Real!]

As you well know Turkey will never make the EU they have lost all perspective and momentum plus they are not European so the current status of the TRNc can continue for many many years to come add to this the rejection by this round of talks by GCs and who knows how things will develop for those residing in the TRNC.

Sixty pages on and you're nowhere nearer at getting an answer to your baffling question... "Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?" ...so how about I save you another sixty by answering it?

Those TCs who don’t want to live in a GC state as a minority should go to Turkey and join the majority.

I believe the answer to VP's question is, definitely not, and we'll stay right where we are thank you very much.

Then hurry up and have many babies...

80,000,000 enough for you?

You are very confused... it'll take you millenniums to reach that many.