Cyprus-Forum.com

[doesntmatter]

What is Larnaka airport built on my friend? I wonder if it belongs to a GC. Check the name on the deeds please.

When it comes to mythology the TCs have long surpassed the Greeks!

Now that is what you call Greek Mythology.

I’m still waiting for credible evidence to back that rumor...

The Turkish Cypriot Property Management Service (TCPMS),
established in 1991, administers properties of Turkish
Cypriots who are not ordinarily residents of the
government-controlled area. This service acts as the
temporary custodian for such properties until termination
of division of the island. The TCPMS is mandated to
administer properties under its custodianship "in the
manner most beneficial for the owner." Furthermore,
ownership of Turkish Cypriot properties cannot change
(unless for inheritance purposes) except in exceptional
cases when this is regarded as beneficial for the owner or
necessary for the public interest. Compensation for
Turkish Cypriot property used for the public benefit, as in
the case of Larnaca airport or for highways, has been
suspended as long as the division of the island continues.

http://www.state.gov/e/eeb/ifd/2006/61974.htm

Will that shut you up now?

Nothing will shut GR! up,Mr Matter...
He will come and tell you that source is not credible...You just wait...

I know, Mr Antimatter.

If you pick a Nick like doesntmatter,you should be prepared to cope with certain playful variations....I dont know if you know my real name,but if you do, Mr Antimatter is quite witty,i'll give you that...

No, I don't know you real name but the opposite of "matter" is "antimatter".

[Piratis]

So what you are saying is that TCs are so different from GCs, and basically incompatible with us? Why did Turks came to Cyprus then? Cyprus was already inhabited by a majority of Greek Cypriots when the Turks came.

Piratis...You are now distorting history...Turks never came to Cyprus...
The Ottomans came to Cyprus...They did not call themselves Turks..In fact the Turks were one of the oppressed minorities in the Ottoman empire for a long time...The people who ended up being called Turkish Cypriots have very little resemblance to the Turkic tribes which started to invade Anatolia around 900AD...Just look at us for God' sake...I challenge you to pick me out in a crowd of GCs as the TC....Especially if I shaved my moustache off... Biologically or genetically there is no difference between us....We are the same people....Our differences are in our heads...That simple and that complex....

We can never satisfy you Bir. In Greece they call them Muslims, they don't like it, they say they are Turks. I respect how you want to be called, and I call you Turkish. Again you don't like it!

I agree with you that biologically or genetically there is no difference between us. Genetics and biology was never the problem.

Your whole argument is based around genetics. You saying that we have no right to a part of our own country... Itttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttts plonker time!!!!

I never based any argument around genetics.

What you have no right for are the homes, land and property of other Cypriots. If there is one plonker here that is you.

GC's never did that. What is Larnaka airport built on my friend? I wonder if it belongs to a GC. Check the name on the deeds please.

Even if that is the case, maybe you forget that an airport in Larnaca wouldn't be necessary if the Turks had not invaded and rendered the Nicosia airport unusable.

Furthermore all countries expropriate land to build roads, airports, hospitals, schools and other public facilities. They did this to land my family owned as well. So there is absolutely nothing illegal about it, and I am sure when the Cyprus Problem will be solved if some TCs owned some land there then they will be compensated based on the market values of the time that the airport was build.

So there is nothing wrong from the state (the one and only in Cyprus) to expropriate land to build public facilities. This is totally unrelated with the Turkey stealing land from GCs and giving it to TCs, Settlers and Foreigners.

[Piratis]

In more recent and more enlightened times people have been given the right to describe themselves in any way they want...If in Greece they want to be called Turks today and not Muslims,that should be their human right,don't you think???Why call them Muslims forcibly???

Probably the reason is that Greece is afraid that what happened in Cyprus could happen to them. One moment they are a "Muslim minority", the next they are a "Turkish minority", then they don't want to be a minority, they want to be partners with 50% power, trouble starts, Turkey invades Greece to "save her Turkish brothers", takes half of it, and then blames the Greeks for being Greek as the reason why all this happened.

But I agree with you that Greece should recognize those people as Turkish if that is how they want to be called.

Why do you insist on calling me Turkish??? If you or other GCs want to be called Greeks,I have no problem with that...it is your right...My point is simply that those who chose to call themselves Greek (or Turkish!) are repeating the same mistake as our parents and grand parents made back in the 50s...And two mistakes will certainly not help correct the present situation...It will make it worse...

Bir, I already explained it to you, but I will rephrase it: For me labels are not important, certainly not in the way that democracy or human rights are. If your dream could be feasible then I would follow you in the "Just Cypriot" democratic nation of no Turks or Greeks. OK?

What I am saying here, and please pay attention, is that the majority of TCs unlike you, want this separation because with this separation they can have a lot more (power/land) than they would have otherwise. So by giving up our Greenness we would gain nothing, and at the same time we would alienate our only close ally and make it easier for Turkey to pass her distorted history.

Fine,Piratis...You keep insisting on your Greekness which (along with our insistence of our Turkishness) brought us to the brink of Partition and see where that will take us....

If you think that Greece one day will go to war with Turkey so that you have your enforced "Democracy" all over Cyprus,and rub the noses of those bloody TCs into the dirt again as you did during 1964-74,you got another big shock waiting for you...

On parting from this argument I want to repeat that I am not asking you to deny your Greek heritage....Only to stop making it politically your primary occupation or weapon...Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot...

The problem has never been our Greekness. That is just who we are. How can who we are be the problem, especially when you consider that this is what we have been for long time before any Turks appeared in Cyprus?

Just a moment ago you said that Greece should recognize the Muslim minority as Turks, since this is their human right. Isn't it our human right as well to be allowed to be what we have always been? How can our human right be the problem????

And I never make our Greek heritage as our "primary occupation or weapon", I only defend this human right of ours when you are trying to deprive it from us.

My primary occupation is defending the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people, and our right for freedom and self-determination. You are the one who then brings up our Greek Heritage and tells us that being Greek is what is the problem and that unless we give up our Greekness you will continue with illegalities and crimes against us.

The problem is your disrespect to our human and democratic rights and the expansionism of Turkey against our island. Not that we are today what we have been for 1000s of years!

Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot.

Exactly Bir. So why are you saying that us "insisting on our Greekness" is the problem???? It is like telling me that I shouldn't insist that I am a man. I don't go around saying that I am a man, because that is obvious, but if some weirdo came and started to make claims that I am not a man, then I would defend who I am, and maybe beat him up in the process, if he insisted to offend me.

So can we all accept each other for what we are, and accept that each one of us, GC, TC, man, woman etc, has equal rights regardless of his ethnicity, gender or anything else? Or you will continue telling us that our Greekness is the problem and that we can not have democracy because of our Greekness and all the other excuses you are saying lately?

[BirKibrisli]

In more recent and more enlightened times people have been given the right to describe themselves in any way they want...If in Greece they want to be called Turks today and not Muslims,that should be their human right,don't you think???Why call them Muslims forcibly???

Probably the reason is that Greece is afraid that what happened in Cyprus could happen to them. One moment they are a "Muslim minority", the next they are a "Turkish minority", then they don't want to be a minority, they want to be partners with 50% power, trouble starts, Turkey invades Greece to "save her Turkish brothers", takes half of it, and then blames the Greeks for being Greek as the reason why all this happened.

But I agree with you that Greece should recognize those people as Turkish if that is how they want to be called.

Why do you insist on calling me Turkish??? If you or other GCs want to be called Greeks,I have no problem with that...it is your right...My point is simply that those who chose to call themselves Greek (or Turkish!) are repeating the same mistake as our parents and grand parents made back in the 50s...And two mistakes will certainly not help correct the present situation...It will make it worse...

Bir, I already explained it to you, but I will rephrase it: For me labels are not important, certainly not in the way that democracy or human rights are. If your dream could be feasible then I would follow you in the "Just Cypriot" democratic nation of no Turks or Greeks. OK?

What I am saying here, and please pay attention, is that the majority of TCs unlike you, want this separation because with this separation they can have a lot more (power/land) than they would have otherwise. So by giving up our Greenness we would gain nothing, and at the same time we would alienate our only close ally and make it easier for Turkey to pass her distorted history.

Fine,Piratis...You keep insisting on your Greekness which (along with our insistence of our Turkishness) brought us to the brink of Partition and see where that will take us....

If you think that Greece one day will go to war with Turkey so that you have your enforced "Democracy" all over Cyprus,and rub the noses of those bloody TCs into the dirt again as you did during 1964-74,you got another big shock waiting for you...

On parting from this argument I want to repeat that I am not asking you to deny your Greek heritage....Only to stop making it politically your primary occupation or weapon...Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot...

The problem has never been our Greekness. That is just who we are. How can who we are be the problem, especially when you consider that this is what we have been for long time before any Turks appeared in Cyprus?

Just a moment ago you said that Greece should recognize the Muslim minority as Turks, since this is their human right. Isn't it our human right as well to be allowed to be what we have always been? How can our human right be the problem????

And I never make our Greek heritage as our "primary occupation or weapon", I only defend this human right of ours when you are trying to deprive it from us.

My primary occupation is defending the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people, and our right for freedom and self-determination. You are the one who then brings up our Greek Heritage and tells us that being Greek is what is the problem and that unless we give up our Greekness you will continue with illegalities and crimes against us.

The problem is your disrespect to our human and democratic rights and the expansionism of Turkey against our island. Not that we are today what we have been for 1000s of years!

Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot.

Exactly Bir. So why are you saying that us "insisting on our Greekness" is the problem???? It is like telling me that I shouldn't insist that I am a man. I don't go around saying that I am a man, because that is obvious, but if some weirdo came and started to make claims that I am not a man, then I would defend who I am, and maybe beat him up in the process, if he insisted to offend me.

So can we all accept each other for what we are, and accept that each one of us, GC, TC, man, woman etc, has equal rights regardless of his ethnicity, gender or anything else? Or you will continue telling us that our Greekness is the problem and that we can not have democracy because of our Greekness and all the other excuses you are saying lately?

I give up,Piratis...you are just too blind to see my point...
My last attempt: Think of ENOSIS and EOKA and TMT and Taksim and all that happened between 1964-74 and all that happened since 1974...and you tell me why insisting on "Cyprus is Greek" might be a slight obstacle to a just and lasting peace in Cyprus....

[Piratis]

In more recent and more enlightened times people have been given the right to describe themselves in any way they want...If in Greece they want to be called Turks today and not Muslims,that should be their human right,don't you think???Why call them Muslims forcibly???

Probably the reason is that Greece is afraid that what happened in Cyprus could happen to them. One moment they are a "Muslim minority", the next they are a "Turkish minority", then they don't want to be a minority, they want to be partners with 50% power, trouble starts, Turkey invades Greece to "save her Turkish brothers", takes half of it, and then blames the Greeks for being Greek as the reason why all this happened.

But I agree with you that Greece should recognize those people as Turkish if that is how they want to be called.

Why do you insist on calling me Turkish??? If you or other GCs want to be called Greeks,I have no problem with that...it is your right...My point is simply that those who chose to call themselves Greek (or Turkish!) are repeating the same mistake as our parents and grand parents made back in the 50s...And two mistakes will certainly not help correct the present situation...It will make it worse...

Bir, I already explained it to you, but I will rephrase it: For me labels are not important, certainly not in the way that democracy or human rights are. If your dream could be feasible then I would follow you in the "Just Cypriot" democratic nation of no Turks or Greeks. OK?

What I am saying here, and please pay attention, is that the majority of TCs unlike you, want this separation because with this separation they can have a lot more (power/land) than they would have otherwise. So by giving up our Greenness we would gain nothing, and at the same time we would alienate our only close ally and make it easier for Turkey to pass her distorted history.

Fine,Piratis...You keep insisting on your Greekness which (along with our insistence of our Turkishness) brought us to the brink of Partition and see where that will take us....

If you think that Greece one day will go to war with Turkey so that you have your enforced "Democracy" all over Cyprus,and rub the noses of those bloody TCs into the dirt again as you did during 1964-74,you got another big shock waiting for you...

On parting from this argument I want to repeat that I am not asking you to deny your Greek heritage....Only to stop making it politically your primary occupation or weapon...Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot...

The problem has never been our Greekness. That is just who we are. How can who we are be the problem, especially when you consider that this is what we have been for long time before any Turks appeared in Cyprus?

Just a moment ago you said that Greece should recognize the Muslim minority as Turks, since this is their human right. Isn't it our human right as well to be allowed to be what we have always been? How can our human right be the problem????

And I never make our Greek heritage as our "primary occupation or weapon", I only defend this human right of ours when you are trying to deprive it from us.

My primary occupation is defending the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people, and our right for freedom and self-determination. You are the one who then brings up our Greek Heritage and tells us that being Greek is what is the problem and that unless we give up our Greekness you will continue with illegalities and crimes against us.

The problem is your disrespect to our human and democratic rights and the expansionism of Turkey against our island. Not that we are today what we have been for 1000s of years!

Our ethnic origins should be an intrinsic,inseparable part of our being,like our gender and our colouring...
An accident of history and geography and biology...Not the only thing that defines your existence as a Cypriot.

Exactly Bir. So why are you saying that us "insisting on our Greekness" is the problem???? It is like telling me that I shouldn't insist that I am a man. I don't go around saying that I am a man, because that is obvious, but if some weirdo came and started to make claims that I am not a man, then I would defend who I am, and maybe beat him up in the process, if he insisted to offend me.

So can we all accept each other for what we are, and accept that each one of us, GC, TC, man, woman etc, has equal rights regardless of his ethnicity, gender or anything else? Or you will continue telling us that our Greekness is the problem and that we can not have democracy because of our Greekness and all the other excuses you are saying lately?

I give up,Piratis...you are just too blind to see my point...
My last attempt: Think of ENOSIS and EOKA and TMT and Taksim and all that happened between 1964-74 and all that happened since 1974...and you tell me why insisting on "Cyprus is Greek" might be a slight obstacle to a just and lasting peace in Cyprus....

What is an obstacle to peace in Cyprus is the Turkish expansionism. The problem is not the human right of the Cypriot people to be what they have always been, or the right of the Cypriot people to determine the destiny of their own island in a peaceful and democratic way.

[humanist]

the TC's are a minority in the occupied area of Cyprus anyway so what is the problem here?

[Kikapu]

By the way VP, what was the other option other than the TC's wanting to live as a minority under a GC state.????

Could it be that you want the TC's to live as equals under a GC state.!!!

Which one of the above choices would you choose for yourself.??

Please clarify.!

The concern is not exactly being outnumbered but the way the majority will treat the minority and what safeguards will make sure they do the right thing, the past tells us GCs are not to be trusted with our well being or future, thats why the 1960 agreements were put in place and why today we still need a safety net. We cannot risk regretting taking this step forward leaving us exposed and at the mercy of the majority who can use their numbers to the detrement of TCs.

VP,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, are you now saying that you don't mind living as a minority in a GC state, and when we talk about a GC state, I assume you are talking about a Unitary state and that your only concerns are the "safeguards", since a Federation states will remove most of your concerns needed as "safeguards" (which I will give them to you soon). If that is the case, I don't know why Bir and Piratis went round and round on this issue for two days, because Piratis has already told you that if you want to be considered as a minority, you can have all the "safeguards" you want, as long as they do not take away his Democratic and Human Rights to give them to you.!

You are surprising me more and more lately. First your acceptance of a one man one vote system and now want to live as a minority in a GC state. What will you surprise us with next, I wonder.?

[Viewpoint]

By the way VP, what was the other option other than the TC's wanting to live as a minority under a GC state.????

Could it be that you want the TC's to live as equals under a GC state.!!!

Which one of the above choices would you choose for yourself.??

Please clarify.!

The concern is not exactly being outnumbered but the way the majority will treat the minority and what safeguards will make sure they do the right thing, the past tells us GCs are not to be trusted with our well being or future, thats why the 1960 agreements were put in place and why today we still need a safety net. We cannot risk regretting taking this step forward leaving us exposed and at the mercy of the majority who can use their numbers to the detrement of TCs.

VP,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, are you now saying that you don't mind living as a minority in a GC state, and when we talk about a GC state, I assume you are talking about a Unitary state and that your only concerns are the "safeguards", since a Federation states will remove most of your concerns needed as "safeguards" (which I will give them to you soon). If that is the case, I don't know why Bir and Piratis went round and round on this issue for two days, because Piratis has already told you that if you want to be considered as a minority, you can have all the "safeguards" you want, as long as they do not take away his Democratic and Human Rights to give them to you.!

You are surprising me more and more lately. First your acceptance of a one man one vote system and now want to live as a minority in a GC state. What will you surprise us with next, I wonder.?

You will never know me Kikapu as you have never really tried to understand where I am coming from, a BBF is just one of the safeguards TCs need to move forward with creating one island. Piratis and Bir, You and I are prime examples of why this island will never unite we do not share the same vision and will not be forced into a partnership that does not conform to our expectations.

[miltiades]

There are real concerns , not imaginary but very real , amongst the T/Cs that their existence on THEIR island is under a continued and an increasing risk from the settlers and from Turkeys continued occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus. Thousands upon thousands of Turkish Cypriots have left the shores of Cyprus , some vowing never to return unless a solution unifying our island is found. Power hungry Turkish mainland officials are dictating the policy and demand acceptance by the native T/Cs.
It is tragic that the T/Cs , very much an integral part of Cyprus , could soon disappear or swallowed up by Turkey.
I feel that the RoC is not doing enough to encourage and support the beleaguered T/Cs , more action is needed to relay the message to our Cypriot compatriots that this island is theirs just as much as it is ours and that they have FULL rights just as any other Cypriot regardless whether they belong to a " perceived" minority or not , because a Cypriot in Cyprus is NOT part of a minority if he is a committed Cypriot . I will never see the T/Cs as a minority with minority rights , I have full rights in the UK , not minority rights, and nothing less should be accorded to our compatriots.
It is crucial that the current talks produce a solution before it is too late and we find our selves with a couple of million Anatolians in Northern Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

There are real concerns , not imaginary but very real , amongst the T/Cs that their existence on THEIR island is under a continued and an increasing risk from the settlers and from Turkeys continued occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus. Thousands upon thousands of Turkish Cypriots have left the shores of Cyprus , some vowing never to return unless a solution unifying our island is found. Power hungry Turkish mainland officials are dictating the policy and demand acceptance by the native T/Cs.
It is tragic that the T/Cs , very much an integral part of Cyprus , could soon disappear or swallowed up by Turkey.
I feel that the RoC is not doing enough to encourage and support the beleaguered T/Cs , more action is needed to relay the message to our Cypriot compatriots that this island is theirs just as much as it is ours and that they have FULL rights just as any other Cypriot regardless whether they belong to a " perceived" minority or not , because a Cypriot in Cyprus is NOT part of a minority if he is a committed Cypriot . I will never see the T/Cs as a minority with minority rights , I have full rights in the UK , not minority rights, and nothing less should be accorded to our compatriots.
It is crucial that the current talks produce a solution before it is too late and we find our selves with a couple of million Anatolians in Northern Cyprus.

Who will administer those rights? the structure is the key miltiades TCs would rather be swallowed up by Turks than enter an agreement that will leave us at the mercy of the GCs.