BirKibrisli wrote:Piratis wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:Piratis wrote:Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.
Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point...
Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?
So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?
You are ignoring the fact that histories of Australia and Cyprus are very different...And you seem to have reduced democracy to the rule of the majority by all means,including tyranny...Democracy is a very mature form of government...It needs a very educated,tolerant,consultative and compassionate people to make it work... Else it would be reduced to the oppression of a hated minority...You will have to agree that in the 50s Cypriots were not really interested in democracy...The majority were only intereseted in giving their country away to their "mothers" in one form or another...One could look at the demands for Enosis and Taksim as acts of treachery...There were a small minority in both communities which wanted independence to build their nation and their country as Cypriots...The forces of "democracy" wiped these people out by threats,intimidation and murder....How can you talk about democracy in such a climate...???? What we had back then is the opportunistic majority wanting to punish the opportunistic minority by bringing about their worse fears under the historical circumstances....It was about revenge for all that happened since 1571...Because the GCs essentially held the TCs responsible for all the pain and suffering they endured under the Ottomans...This is what you need to come to terms with,Piratis...The minute GCs decided they were Greeks and not Cypriots,was the minute they gave the right to the TCs to say they were Turks and not Cypriots...
And all the rest followed as we know it...You insisting now that the GCs are Greeks and Cyprus is a Greek island shows you have learned nothing from the bloody events since the 50s ....And it tells me ,as a TC who wants to be Cypriot above my ethnicity,that you are not interested in democracy even today,but to punish and destroy the TCs for the deeds of their ancestors going back to 1571...I cannot trust you today any more than my father and mother did back in the 50s....You can dress up your Hellenic nationalism as democracy for all you like....I will see through it...
Until you can admit that it was our Greekness and Turkishness which brought us here,and we need to give them the boot and embrace our Cypriotness together,geographically,historically and politically,I will not take your democracy plea very seriously....And you will find very few TCs would...Lets move forward from this Cyprus is Greek or Turkish shit,and you will find many Cypriots,myself included, who will fight along with you to achieve real democracy,real independence,real human rights,real rule of the law...Not before...
I am not the one who mentioned Australia as the most similar example, but even there, as I exhibited, people are free to democratically make their own choices even when those choices include things like having the flag of another country in their own flag, or have the Queen of another country as their own Queen. I don't see you crying "tyranny" about Australia because of their democratic choices. Why are you doing this for Cyprus?
If you want a similar example to the one of Cyprus, the most similar one is the one of Bulgaria. They also have a Turkish minority which is in fact older than the TC minority in Cyprus. Does the Turkish minority of Bulgaria get the undemocratic privileges that you demand on our expense?
We didn't become Greeks in the 50s. We have been Greeks for 1000s of years. So stop denying to us our ethnicity, like you are doing with the Kurds who you occupy their lands and call them "Mountain Turks".
Our demand for union with Greece didn't start in the 50s either, but right from the beginning of the Greek revolution in 1821. Read a bit of the history of Cyprus and then you will see that since then we always wanted to be free in a free Greek state along with all other Greeks, and not the slaves of some Ottoman or British empire. If you call "Hellenic nationalism" the desire of the Greek people (including the Cypriots) to overthrow their foreign rulers and create a free Greek state, then so be it.
We had no desire to "punish and destroy" the TCs. In fact after the Ottoman rule ended we lived in peace with TCs and our revolution was against the British colonialists, not against you. You are the ones who in 1958 decided to side with the colonialists and attacked us, so get your facts straight.
In Cyprus we also have a Latin minority, and if we believe the Turks, the Latins were even more brutal against us during their rule than the Ottomans. Did you see any "punish and destroy" against the Latins??
We never sought any collective punishments of others due to past events. What we always sought is freedom, democracy and our self-determination, and we always fought only those who choose to attack against us in order to deny to us the above rights. So don't make up stories against us trying to justify your actions.
Cyprus is what Cyprus is and Cypriots are what they are. I accept you for what you are, and you should accept us for what we are, especially if you consider that we have been what we are today for long long long time before any Turks appeared on this island. If you didn't like us for what we are then you shouldn't have come.
You can't violate our rights and keep our land hostage, threatening us that we should give up our ethnicity and the history of our island.
Yes, Cyprus is above all else Cypriot, and that is exactly why the Cypriots, and not some foreigners, should democratically decide where Cyprus should belong.
When we united with EU and we confirmed that Cyprus is European, did this make Cyprus any less Cypriot? Would you come and tell us that we should be "just Cypriot" and to "stop the Cyprus is European shit" and force Cyprus not to unite with EU just because that is what suited you and Turkey? I still remember how Turkey was threatening to invade Cyprus again if we united with EU! Fortunately this time they didn't manage to find some lame excuse to do so. And of course the reason that Turkey didn't want Cyprus to unite with either Greece or EU is not because Turkey have the super-special scientists who concluded that Cyprus is not Greek or European, but because they want Cyprus alone and weak so they can manipulate us easier.