Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.

Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point...

Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?

Thats why we are having referendums allowing the Cypriots the opportunity to decide their own future.

I didn't see any referendum with the options that most Cypriots want in it though, did you? The one referendum we had was one that was liked by the British, the Turks and your small minority. And the Cypriot people overwhelmingly rejected that option, clearly indicating that what they want for their own island is something completely different.

So where is the option in a referendum for Cyprus to unite with Greece? Or where is the option for a truly independent Cyprus without foreign troops and without foreign granted privileges to some minority?

So cut the crap VP. The Cypriot people are denied today their right of self-determination just like this right has always been denied to us.

So you are saying the referendum where you used your right to reject it was not democratic?

[Viewpoint]

Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.

Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point...

Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?

Thats why we are having referendums allowing the Cypriots the opportunity to decide their own future.

I didn't see any referendum with the options that most Cypriots want in it though, did you? The one referendum we had was one that was liked by the British, the Turks and your small minority. And the Cypriot people overwhelmingly rejected that option, clearly indicating that what they want for their own island is something completely different.

So where is the option in a referendum for Cyprus to unite with Greece? Or where is the option for a truly independent Cyprus without foreign troops and without foreign granted privileges to some minority?

So cut the crap VP. The Cypriot people are denied today their right of self-determination just like this right has always been denied to us.

So you are saying the referendum where you used your right to reject it was not democratic because it didnt give you what you wanted?

[Viewpoint]

deleted

[Piratis]

Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.

Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point...

Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?

Thats why we are having referendums allowing the Cypriots the opportunity to decide their own future.

I didn't see any referendum with the options that most Cypriots want in it though, did you? The one referendum we had was one that was liked by the British, the Turks and your small minority. And the Cypriot people overwhelmingly rejected that option, clearly indicating that what they want for their own island is something completely different.

So where is the option in a referendum for Cyprus to unite with Greece? Or where is the option for a truly independent Cyprus without foreign troops and without foreign granted privileges to some minority?

So cut the crap VP. The Cypriot people are denied today their right of self-determination just like this right has always been denied to us.

So you are saying the referendum where you used your right to reject it was not democratic because it didnt give you what you wanted?

No VP, what we want a referendum that would ask the Cypriot people:

"Do you accept for Cyprus to be an independent unitary democratic state, one person - one vote, without no foreign bases and foreign troops?" YES or NO?

And I can bet you that the vast majority of the Cypriot people would say "YES", unlike the previous referendum which was made to serve the interests of foreigners and some small minority, and was therefore rejected by the majority of the Cypriot people.

[Viewpoint]

What about safeguards to guarantee we do not make the same mistakes of the past, look at Gazza those people are dieing and the protection you offer us are just watching, the same could happen to us.

[Piratis]

What about safeguards to guarantee we do not make the same mistakes of the past, look at Gazza those people are dieing and the protection you offer us are just watching, the same could happen to us.

The same is what you do now: Invading and using force to illegally occupy what does not belong to you. The only difference is that unlike the Palestinians we are trying to free our land in a peaceful way.

The safeguards for all is democracy (= one person one vote) and human rights as they happen in every other civilized country and as you never allowed us to have, neither during the 300+ years you ruled, neither in 1960. This was the mistake of the past, and this is what should be avoided in the future.

[Viewpoint]

What about safeguards to guarantee we do not make the same mistakes of the past, look at Gazza those people are dieing and the protection you offer us are just watching, the same could happen to us.

The same is what you do now: Invading and using force to illegally occupy what does not belong to you. The only difference is that unlike the Palestinians we are trying to free our land in a peaceful way.

The safeguards for all is democracy (= one person one vote) and human rights as they happen in every other civilized country and as you never allowed us to have, neither during the 300+ years you ruled, neither in 1960. This was the mistake of the past, and this is what should be avoided in the future.

Piratis you yourself have confessed many times that GCs contributed to division of today, the situation we find ourselves is a continuation of not being able to find the structure that we can commit to, we will not give you free range to do as you wish as you have proven in the past not to be trust worthy partners, you may also view this in reverse I have no problem with this but ther emust be safeguards in place which hopefully will become redundent due to lack of use, but without a safety net TCs will not take a leap of faith and hope the majority will do the right thing by the TCs.

[Piratis]

What about safeguards to guarantee we do not make the same mistakes of the past, look at Gazza those people are dieing and the protection you offer us are just watching, the same could happen to us.

The same is what you do now: Invading and using force to illegally occupy what does not belong to you. The only difference is that unlike the Palestinians we are trying to free our land in a peaceful way.

The safeguards for all is democracy (= one person one vote) and human rights as they happen in every other civilized country and as you never allowed us to have, neither during the 300+ years you ruled, neither in 1960. This was the mistake of the past, and this is what should be avoided in the future.

Piratis you yourself have confessed many times that GCs contributed to division of today, the situation we find ourselves is a continuation of not being able to find the structure that we can commit to, we will not give you free range to do as you wish as you have proven in the past not to be trust worthy partners, you may also view this in reverse I have no problem with this but ther emust be safeguards in place which hopefully will become redundent due to lack of use, but without a safety net TCs will not take a leap of faith and hope the majority will do the right thing by the TCs.

VP, the division was and continues to be the aim of Turks. We involuntarily had to fight in the wars you started against us, but of course we never wanted to divide our own island.

I already know that the invaders of our country will not voluntarily give to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination. This is called The Cyprus Problem. If you were willing to accept democracy and human rights we wouldn't have a problem to begin with.

The Cypriot people will continue to fight for justice, freedom and democracy. Those who respect the Cypriot people and are willing to accept the above principles will be our friends and they will be respected. Those who want to take our lands and violate our rights will be our enemies, we will fight them, and eventually we will defeat them and liberate our lands.

[BirKibrisli]

Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.

Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point...

Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?

You are ignoring the fact that histories of Australia and Cyprus are very different...And you seem to have reduced democracy to the rule of the majority by all means,including tyranny...Democracy is a very mature form of government...It needs a very educated,tolerant,consultative and compassionate people to make it work... Else it would be reduced to the oppression of a hated minority...You will have to agree that in the 50s Cypriots were not really interested in democracy...The majority were only intereseted in giving their country away to their "mothers" in one form or another...One could look at the demands for Enosis and Taksim as acts of treachery...There were a small minority in both communities which wanted independence to build their nation and their country as Cypriots...The forces of "democracy" wiped these people out by threats,intimidation and murder....How can you talk about democracy in such a climate...???? What we had back then is the opportunistic majority wanting to punish the opportunistic minority by bringing about their worse fears under the historical circumstances....It was about revenge for all that happened since 1571...Because the GCs essentially held the TCs responsible for all the pain and suffering they endured under the Ottomans...This is what you need to come to terms with,Piratis...The minute GCs decided they were Greeks and not Cypriots,was the minute they gave the right to the TCs to say they were Turks and not Cypriots...
And all the rest followed as we know it...You insisting now that the GCs are Greeks and Cyprus is a Greek island shows you have learned nothing from the bloody events since the 50s ....And it tells me ,as a TC who wants to be Cypriot above my ethnicity,that you are not interested in democracy even today,but to punish and destroy the TCs for the deeds of their ancestors going back to 1571...I cannot trust you today any more than my father and mother did back in the 50s....You can dress up your Hellenic nationalism as democracy for all you like....I will see through it...
Until you can admit that it was our Greekness and Turkishness which brought us here,and we need to give them the boot and embrace our Cypriotness together,geographically,historically and politically,I will not take your democracy plea very seriously....And you will find very few TCs would...Lets move forward from this Cyprus is Greek or Turkish shit,and you will find many Cypriots,myself included, who will fight along with you to achieve real democracy,real independence,real human rights,real rule of the law...Not before...

[Nikitas]

Bir, to the above I would add TRUE MERITOCRACY, in both communities, in public service as well as private enterprise. The ability to appoint cronies and relatives to lucrative positions has added to the undermining of our public life in Cyprus.

As for shaking off the shackles of the mothterlands, a miracle, like finding oil or some other valuable resource would do a lot to bring us on par with Australia. In both Australia and Canada, independence was reinforced when they developed local wealth producing resources.