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Do TCs want to live in a GC state as a minority?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:53 am

Murataga wrote:
Piratis wrote:
The people of this island are Greek , either you like it or not. If you are going to tell us that we are not Greek because of "mixures" then what are you going to call the "Turks" who do not even look from Far East which is what the real original Turks were. If you ask from us not to be called Greeks due to "mixures" then you should aslo ask from the "Turks" to be called KurdoAraboBastards because of "mixures" as well.

Mixures happened everywhere, and this is not want defines the ethnicity of people.


Piratis - You just made my day with the above overall argument and with the highlighted sentence in particular 8)

Viewpoint - My congratulations and gratitude for making him write the above. Of all the things the TCs have gotten him to say, I personally believe this one tops it all. :wink:

I wouldn't be surprised if Piratis has Greek blood or a Greek spouse or something... I can't imagine an otherwise intelligent full blown Cypriot, making such a sweeping statement.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:40 am

Murataga wrote:
Piratis wrote:
The people of this island are Greek , either you like it or not. If you are going to tell us that we are not Greek because of "mixures" then what are you going to call the "Turks" who do not even look from Far East which is what the real original Turks were. If you ask from us not to be called Greeks due to "mixures" then you should aslo ask from the "Turks" to be called KurdoAraboBastards because of "mixures" as well.

Mixures happened everywhere, and this is not want defines the ethnicity of people.


Piratis - You just made my day with the above overall argument and with the highlighted sentence in particular 8)

Viewpoint - My congratulations and gratitude for making him write the above. Of all the things the TCs have gotten him to say, I personally believe this one tops it all. :wink:


:roll: I am just stating the facts as I always do. Unlike some others I never denied how Greek this island and its people are, just to appease the invaders and enemies of our island.
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Postby miltiades » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:36 am

Piratis wrote:
Murataga wrote:
Piratis wrote:
The people of this island are Greek , either you like it or not. If you are going to tell us that we are not Greek because of "mixures" then what are you going to call the "Turks" who do not even look from Far East which is what the real original Turks were. If you ask from us not to be called Greeks due to "mixures" then you should aslo ask from the "Turks" to be called KurdoAraboBastards because of "mixures" as well.

Mixures happened everywhere, and this is not want defines the ethnicity of people.


Piratis - You just made my day with the above overall argument and with the highlighted sentence in particular 8)

Viewpoint - My congratulations and gratitude for making him write the above. Of all the things the TCs have gotten him to say, I personally believe this one tops it all. :wink:


:roll: I am just stating the facts as I always do. Unlike some others I never denied how Greek this island and its people are, just to appease the invaders and enemies of our island.

Those of us who feel that our true identity is that of Cypriots are in line with the UN interpretation of the dwellers of the island of Cyprus . That we are Greek Cypriots but not Greeks is a universaly accepted description. When you infer that this island is Greek you are denying the right of the other communities amongst us , to call this country theirs too.

By the same reasoning the Australians and New Zealanders are English .

You suggest that those of us who proclaim our Cypriotness above all else do so in order to appease the Turks . How many of us , including T/Cs such as Bir and Kikapu , have rushed to recognise the "trnc" and how many of us , including many T/Cs have recognised the legality of the Turkish troops in North Cyprus , recent graffiti in North Nicosia shows that a sizable minority of T/Cs see the troops as an occupying force.
We are not making the right noises by telling our compatriots that this island is Greek with the undertones of Enosis aspirations evident.

We prefer that we accept realities that there are two major communities in Cyprus , the G/C and the T/C , combined together form the nation of Cyprus , not Greek nor Turkish Cyprus.
No one has suggested that the T/Cs or the G/Cs forego their attachment to either Greece or Turkey but it would be prudent and realistic for both sections to embrace their Cypriot background .
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:41 am

Those of us who feel that our true identity is that of Cypriots are in line with the UN interpretation of the dwellers of the island of Cyprus .


The UN does not define the ethnicity of people.

That we are Greek Cypriots but not Greeks is a universaly accepted description.


Your statement is an oxymoron. Since we are Greek Cypriots we are therefore Greek. It is like telling me that a White Bear can not be white because it is a bear. If it was not white, it wouldn't be called "White Bear". Similarly, if Greek Cypriots were not Greek, they wouldn't be called "Greek Cypriots".

When you infer that this island is Greek you are denying the right of the other communities amongst us , to call this country theirs too.


And why is that? When you say that Athens is Greek, do you deny the right to any ethnic minority to call Athens their own city?

By the same reasoning the Australians and New Zealanders are English .

Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.


You suggest that those of us who proclaim our Cypriotness above all else do so in order to appease the Turks


I never suggested such thing. What I said is that most of those who deny their Greek identity do so to appease the Turks. I can very easily put my Cypriotness above all else without denying my Greekness. for example when a local team from Cyprus would play with another Greek team then I would support the Cypriot team. But if a team from Greece plays with another foreign team, then I would support the team from Greece.

How many of us , including T/Cs such as Bir and Kikapu , have rushed to recognise the "trnc" and how many of us , including many T/Cs have recognised the legality of the Turkish troops in North Cyprus , recent graffiti in North Nicosia shows that a sizable minority of T/Cs see the troops as an occupying force.
We are not making the right noises by telling our compatriots that this island is Greek with the undertones of Enosis aspirations evident.


There are no "enosis aspirations". Real Cypriots recognize the right of Cypriot self-determination, freedom from foreign rule, and democracy without racist discriminations.

Everybody should accept that what should happen in Cyprus is what Cypriots democratically choose to do, and not what some foreigners want to force, even if their opinion or interests on some issue happens to be the same with the interests of those foreigners. Siding with foreigners to oppress the democratically expressed will of the Cypriot people amounts to treason.

We prefer that we accept realities that there are two major communities in Cyprus , the G/C and the T/C , combined together form the nation of Cyprus , not Greek nor Turkish Cyprus.


All the communities of Cyprus are combined to form the Cypriot nation, not just TCs and GCs. If we are going to make that distiction, then the only major community in Cyprus is the GC community, which is more than 5 times larger than the TC community.

No one has suggested that the T/Cs or the G/Cs forego their attachment to either Greece or Turkey but it would be prudent and realistic for both sections to embrace their Cypriot background .


It is not a matter of attachment to Greece (or Turkey). If you modified your statement to: "No one has suggested that the T/Cs or the G/Cs forego their ethnicity but it would be prudent and realistic for both sections to embrace their Cypriot background ." then I would agree with you 100%.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:47 pm

Piratis wrote:Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.



Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point... :(
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Postby lovernomore » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:00 pm

Murataga wrote:
Piratis wrote:
The people of this island are Greek , either you like it or not. If you are going to tell us that we are not Greek because of "mixures" then what are you going to call the "Turks" who do not even look from Far East which is what the real original Turks were. If you ask from us not to be called Greeks due to "mixures" then you should aslo ask from the "Turks" to be called KurdoAraboBastards because of "mixures" as well.

Mixures happened everywhere, and this is not want defines the ethnicity of people.


Piratis - You just made my day with the above overall argument and with the highlighted sentence in particular 8)

Viewpoint - My congratulations and gratitude for making him write the above. Of all the things the TCs have gotten him to say, I personally believe this one tops it all. :wink:


The TRNC is not part of your Greek coutnry so it is best we keep seperate. I say f*** the negotiotions and f*** reuinificatoin.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:41 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.



Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point... :(


Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:44 pm

Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.



Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point... :(


Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?


Thats why we are having referendums allowing the Cypriots the opportunity to decide their own future.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:00 am

Also Bir, your arguments regarding Cyprus simply don't stand. The exact same arguments could be said for many other Greek and Turkish islands, as well as many Greek and Turkish cities. Why for example should Constantinople/Istanbul be Turkish? Why isn't it a separate city state which is nor Greek or Turkish? Not every island and every city should be a separate state, in fact most of them are not.

People often unite into bigger countries because the bigger a country is, the more powerful it is, and the easier it is for those people to serve their own interests. Weather a territory will be separate or part of another country this should be democratically determined by the people of the territory itself, not by anybody else. The UN resolution regarding de-colonization clearly defines this: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

In the case of Cyprus, the British and the Turks NOT the Cypriot people decided that Cyprus should be separate from the rest of Greece (and under Turkish and British influence instead), in order to serve the British and Turkish interests and NOT the interests of the Cypriot people.

It is funny how for Gibraltar the UK allowed a referendum because they knew that the results of the referendum would suit them, but in the case of Cyprus they denied to us our right for a referendum and self-determination, because they knew that the result of it would not suit them.

The fact is that the British and the Turks denied to the Cypriot people their right of self-determination, and that they have used the TC minority as an excuse to do so. As a reward (and as a way to maintain their divide and rule) the British and Turks granted unfair and disproportional privileges to the TC minority on the expense of the rest of the Cypriot people.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:06 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:Most of them are. They even have the British flag as part of their own flag and they have the Queen of England as their own Queen. They simply choose to be separate from the UK because that would serve their own interests better. Did you see any non-English Australians staring a war demanding that the British flag being taken off the Australian flag, and the official language of Australia to stop being English? They all accept these facts, and all feel Australia as their own country with no problem.



Try telling Anglo-Celtic Australians that they are British or English and you will get a bloody nose in no time...Piratis,in 200 odd years ,the overwhelming majority of Australians from British background have evolved into a distinct nationality of Australians....They might still have the British flag in one corner of their own,and the Queen as head of state,but that is fast becoming an embarassment for the majority of Australians...The cunning Howard made sure the referandum to turn Australia into a Republic in 1999 failed,but the next one will definitely succeed as both the Labour PM Rudd and the Leader of the Opposition Turnbull are ardent republicans...We will probably wait till the Queen dies to respect the sensibilities of some older Austalians,but it is only a matter of time before we have a Republic with its own flag...We already have a distinct Australian national anthem...The fact that after thousands of years and nearly 400 years respectively the GCs and TCs cannot call themselves Cypriot above all else is totally bewildering...It shows some other insidious factor at work behind the collective consciousness of the majority of Cypriots...This is what we have to fight against...You insisting that Cyprus is a Greek island does nothing to advance our national interest, or the causes of peace and reconciliation...I am surprised you cannot see this simple point... :(


Bir, the Australians democratically choose that they want to be separate and how close or separate they are now or they will be in the future will always be their choice. As you said regarding the Queen as the Head of state the Australians had a referendum and they choose to keep her. Did the Australians that were the minority in that referendum started to attack and kill everybody else just because what they wanted didn't pass in the referendum? If they did such thing who would be blamed? The people who took a democratic decision, or the ones who didn't respect the democratic decision and started the attacks?

So why can't you accept the same thing for Cyprus? I am not saying that Cyprus should unite with Greece or that we should have a Greek national anthem or a Greek flag. All I am saying is: Let the Cypriot people to decide in democratic way what they want for their own island, just like Australians do. Why do you have to force your own will on the Cypriot people by colaborating with foreigners? Why can't you accept that the Cypriot people should be the ones who should democratically take the decisions for their own island?


Thats why we are having referendums allowing the Cypriots the opportunity to decide their own future.


I didn't see any referendum with the options that most Cypriots want in it though, did you? The one referendum we had was one that was liked by the British, the Turks and your small minority. And the Cypriot people overwhelmingly rejected that option, clearly indicating that what they want for their own island is something completely different.

So where is the option in a referendum for Cyprus to unite with Greece? Or where is the option for a truly independent and democratic Cyprus without foreign troops and without foreign granted privileges to some minority?

So cut the crap VP. The Cypriot people are denied today their right of self-determination just like this right has always been denied to us.
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