Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

If we are all Cypriots( i.e. the majority), would someone please explain to me why we have not been able to reach an agreement after 34 years ?

Trust is the key, we do not trust the other side to do the right thing if we should decide to become one majority.

THE OTHER SIDE ????

NO trust = GCs and TCs = 2 sides = No one majority.

If no majority, then we are not all CYPRIOTS ? Is this your reply ?

You can not just click your fingers and hope everyone considers themselves Cypriots this is something that can only be achieved through trust and a gradual understanding that united we are better than divided.

VP, your logic is lacking significantly.

The only way not to have majority and minority is if we are "Just Cypriots". In this case: Just Cypriots = 100% = no majority, no minority.

If we are split into GCs and TCs (for whatever reason) then the equation is like this:

82% GC > 18% TCs = GCs majority, TCs minority.

So, VP, what is your position? Are we all just Cypriots? Or we are ethnic Greeks and ethnic Turks, in which case the Turks are an ethnic minority in an island which is predominantly Greek?

The opportunity to build 1 Cypriot people was lost in 1963, we are currently 2 communities GCs and TCs, divided for 34 years trying to work out a structure where we can learn to trust each other and build 1 Cypriot country with 1 Cypriot identity, this identity will not appear from thin air it has to be built over many years of development and experience that this route is more beneficial to all concerned.

Right from the very moment that the Turks set their foot on this island they divided people into Muslims(Turks) and lower class Christians(Greeks) in order to oppress the native Cypriot population. I didn't see the Turks doing anything for the creation of a common Cypriot identity during the 300+ years they ruled the island against the will of the native Cypriot people. At no point the Turks wanted to integrate with the rest of Cypriots because they always wanted to be separate and enjoy privileges on the expense of everybody else. This is something that continues today.

Therefore the conclusion is that what we have in Cyprus is not "just Cypriots", but a native Greek speaking Cypriot majority and a minority of ethnic Turks, a minority which was created on our island like it was created on many other Greek territories, as well as other areas that were under the Ottoman empire (e.g. the Turkish minority in Bulgaria).

Conclusion: The Turks never assimilated into Cypriots (like it happened with communities from other former rulers of Cyprus), and they remain a separate ethnic minority in Cyprus.

Piratis, I dare say that you have alot of friends in the north. I declare you number one partitionist.

[Medman]

I would like equal opportunities. The problem is one of psyche. The blame game continues with people on this forum adjusting and rewriting history to fit their own beliefs. Yes both sides. I believe that things are so f**ked up between both communities that there is no trust and the TC's believe that only Turkey can guarantee their existence. What unites us as Cypriots? Some GC on this forum are rebranding themselves as Cypriots only and making out that the TC's only turned up in 1974. Cyprus has no common language to start any kind of reconcillation ball rolling.

'Turks, Greeks and Armenians dwell intermingled, bitter enemies at heart, and united solely by their love for the land of their birth'- Archduke Louis Salavador of Austria views on Cyprus 1874.

[Piratis]

If we are all Cypriots( i.e. the majority), would someone please explain to me why we have not been able to reach an agreement after 34 years ?

Trust is the key, we do not trust the other side to do the right thing if we should decide to become one majority.

THE OTHER SIDE ????

NO trust = GCs and TCs = 2 sides = No one majority.

If no majority, then we are not all CYPRIOTS ? Is this your reply ?

You can not just click your fingers and hope everyone considers themselves Cypriots this is something that can only be achieved through trust and a gradual understanding that united we are better than divided.

VP, your logic is lacking significantly.

The only way not to have majority and minority is if we are "Just Cypriots". In this case: Just Cypriots = 100% = no majority, no minority.

If we are split into GCs and TCs (for whatever reason) then the equation is like this:

82% GC > 18% TCs = GCs majority, TCs minority.

So, VP, what is your position? Are we all just Cypriots? Or we are ethnic Greeks and ethnic Turks, in which case the Turks are an ethnic minority in an island which is predominantly Greek?

The opportunity to build 1 Cypriot people was lost in 1963, we are currently 2 communities GCs and TCs, divided for 34 years trying to work out a structure where we can learn to trust each other and build 1 Cypriot country with 1 Cypriot identity, this identity will not appear from thin air it has to be built over many years of development and experience that this route is more beneficial to all concerned.

Right from the very moment that the Turks set their foot on this island they divided people into Muslims(Turks) and lower class Christians(Greeks) in order to oppress the native Cypriot population. I didn't see the Turks doing anything for the creation of a common Cypriot identity during the 300+ years they ruled the island against the will of the native Cypriot people. At no point the Turks wanted to integrate with the rest of Cypriots because they always wanted to be separate and enjoy privileges on the expense of everybody else. This is something that continues today.

Therefore the conclusion is that what we have in Cyprus is not "just Cypriots", but a native Greek speaking Cypriot majority and a minority of ethnic Turks, a minority which was created on our island like it was created on many other Greek territories, as well as other areas that were under the Ottoman empire (e.g. the Turkish minority in Bulgaria).

Conclusion: The Turks never assimilated into Cypriots (like it happened with communities from other former rulers of Cyprus), and they remain a separate ethnic minority in Cyprus.

Piratis still going on about what happened 450 years ago when his sins where commited by his fathers only 45 years ago. You were the one who claimed we lived together peacefully without any problems, so at that point the past should have been forgotten but obviously not, 1960 was our opportunity to for a Cypriot people but you had no intention of honouring the deal, by trying to change it even before the ink had time to dry, you had hidden agendas which messed everything up and now after 35 years of division you expect to play your new we are all Cypriots card which is just camaflouge to saying allow us to take control of the whole island and run it as we see fit with you just as another minority at our mercy to do with as we see fit, well seeing you have not forgotten what happened 450 years ago we stand no chance for what happened only 35 years ago, no thanks we demand safeguards plenty of them and an effective say in the running of a united Cyprus and our own future.

Where did I say anything about what happened 450 years ago?? In fact 450 years ago there were no Turks in Cyprus.

What I talk about is your constant aggression against us, which started from the day you set your foot on this island and continues until today.

What our fathers did was just fight for democracy and freedom of this island from foreign oppressors. On the other hand what YOU are doing today, and what your father, grandfather, grand-grandfather etc did, is keep invading our island, stealing our lands, violating our rights, and trying to deny to us our freedom.

You only stopped this aggression for a mere 80 years, and indeed during those 80 years we forgave you and we lived peacefully with each other. However in 1958 you attacked us again, seeking Ottoman style privileges on our expense by collaborating with the British, and the 1960 "agreements" that were forced on the Cypriot people were nothing more than the result of your collaboration with the colonialists.

One would think that after showing so much forgiveness to you for the crimes you committed against us for 3+ centuries, you would finally acknowledge the right for the Cypriot people to take decisions in a democratic and peaceful way. Unfortunately you didn't do that, and you choose to attack us, collaborate with foreigners, and deny to the Cypriot people their rights.

This is what you continue doing today. You are collaborating with a foreign invader hoping to get unfair and disproportional gains on our expense. Be sure that we will not capitulate. If you do not accept for all Cypriots to be equal Cypriot citizens without racist discriminations and you instead want winners and losers, then be sure that we will fight this war until the end and that we will win and you will lose.

[Piratis]

'Turks, Greeks and Armenians dwell intermingled, bitter enemies at heart, and united solely by their love for the land of their birth'- Archduke Louis Salavador of Austria views on Cyprus 1874.

In 1874 Cyprus was still under Ottoman rule. Of course the foreign ruler who oppressed the Cypriot people was the enemy, how else could it be? Sorry if we were not "nice slaves"

However it is a fact that after the Ottoman rule ended, the Cypriot people forgave the Turks and we lived peacefully with each other in Cyprus, often in mixed villages. The enemy was the new ruler, the British, and not the TCs.

In 1955 we started a struggle against the colonialists (not against the TCs) seeking our freedom and self-determination, so the destiny of Cyprus could be determined in a democratic way by the Cypriots themselves (TCs included) instead of having some foreigner taking the decisions. This struggle was started only after our calls for a democratic and peaceful referendum were denied to us.

Unfortunately the TCs were enticed by the promises for privileges offered to them by the British and Turkey, and in 1958 they choose to attack us, starting the intercommunal conflict. Since then, they continue to cooperate with foreigners seeking unfair and disproportional gains of power and land on the expense of every other Cypriot, while the foreigners (Turkey, UK) get to keep their troops in Cyprus and occupy parts of our island.

These are the facts my friend. If you disagree with anything then tell me exactly what it is.

No need to start crying again that TCs also had losses during the inter-communal conflict. Yes they had. What did you expect. That the TCs will attack us first, collaborate with foreigners in order to deny to us our freedom, be granted by those foreigners unfair gains on our expense, and we would just sit there being killed and have our rights and freedom being taken away without reacting?

[Medman]

I'm not crying at all Piratis. I'm laughing at the usual diatrabe that engulfs this forum everyday.
Thanks for the my friend quote. Chin up!

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Where did I say anything about what happened 450 years ago?? In fact 450 years ago there were no Turks in Cyprus.

What I talk about is your constant aggression against us, which started from the day you set your foot on this island and continues until today.

What our fathers did was just fight for democracy and freedom of this island from foreign oppressors. On the other hand what YOU are doing today, and what your father, grandfather, grand-grandfather etc did, is keep invading our island, stealing our lands, violating our rights, and trying to deny to us our freedom.

You only stopped this aggression for a mere 80 years, and indeed during those 80 years we forgave you and we lived peacefully with each other. However in 1958 you attacked us again, seeking Ottoman style privileges on our expense by collaborating with the British, and the 1960 "agreements" that were forced on the Cypriot people were nothing more than the result of your collaboration with the colonialists.

One would think that after showing so much forgiveness to you for the crimes you committed against us for 3+ centuries, you would finally acknowledge the right for the Cypriot people to take decisions in a democratic and peaceful way. Unfortunately you didn't do that, and you choose to attack us, collaborate with foreigners, and deny to the Cypriot people their rights.

This is what you continue doing today. You are collaborating with a foreign invader hoping to get unfair and disproportional gains on our expense. Be sure that we will not capitulate. If you do not accept for all Cypriots to be equal Cypriot citizens without racist discriminations and you instead want winners and losers, then be sure that we will fight this war until the end and that we will win and you will lose.

You are contradicting yourself because you state you are not referring to what happened 450 years but what happened after the Ottamans arrived and enslaved you but you were always slaves, this island was never Greek you always conveniently forget this. We can argue back and forth forever about how things developed but the bottom line is that your so called "democratic" right to gift Cyprus to Greece without the blessing of 20% of your population was viewed as our death warrant, who wants to die? You will fight against the smell of death even if this means collabarating with devil in order to survive, this is known as human nature.

The turning point should have been 1960 when the slates were cleaned but even then you had other plans to remove the protectitive measures put in place specifically to deter GC dominance over TCs. Your hidden agenda never changed as we had gained indepedence from the Brits yet you still had a view to push TCs into minority status and gift the island to Greece. You have achieved union with Greece but without us but your mentality to reduce us to minority status still continues today, your leaders have made this apparently clear.

You need to break free of your shackles of the past and understand we are 2 partners, 2 communities, 2 sides trying to agree a strusture that we can both commit to, we during these nefotiations have just as much weight as you do I can understand this is difficult for you to swallow but you should get used to it as a new solution will incorporate issues which neither of us will like but we will both have to accept if we want a solution.

[Piratis]

So it was fine for Cyprus to be under Ottoman (or British) rule without the blessing of the 82% of the population (actually the 100% initially) and with native Cypriots as slaves, but not OK to be part of a free Greek state without the blessing of the 18%???

Does Turkey take the blessing of the 20% of Kurds for anything they will do??

There was absolutely no risk for the lives of TCs with union with Greece. The only thing you would lose would be the unfair privileges granted to you on our expense by the invaders of Cyprus.

In 1958 you attacked us and you re-started the war against us. 1960 was not a "clean slate". How the hell could it be a "clean slate" when British got bases on our land, Turks got to keep troops on Cyprus, and the small TC minority was given so many unfair privileges on our expense?

The fact is that you re-started the war in 1958 and this war did not end in 1960 with your victory as you would hope. There will be no end in the war with your victory. The war will go on until Cyprus is free and democratic and your minority will accept to be like every other minority in every other country, and stop collaborating with foreigners trying to have unfair and disproportional gains of power and land on our expense by helping those foreigners get what they want from our island.

[zan]

So it was fine for Cyprus to be under Ottoman (or British) rule without the blessing of the 82% of the population (actually the 100% initially) and with native Cypriots as slaves, but not OK to be part of a free Greek state without the blessing of the 18%???

Does Turkey take the blessing of the 20% of Kurds for anything they will do??

There was absolutely no risk for the lives of TCs with union with Greece. The only thing you would lose would be the unfair privileges granted to you on our expense by the invaders of Cyprus.

In 1958 you attacked us and you re-started the war against us. 1960 was not a "clean slate". How the hell could it be a "clean slate" when British got bases on our land, Turks got to keep troops on Cyprus, and the small TC minority was given so many unfair privileges on our expense?

The fact is that you re-started the war in 1958 and this war did not end in 1960 with your victory as you would hope. There will be no end in the war with your victory. The war will go on until Cyprus is free and democratic and your minority will accept to be like every other minority in every other country, and stop collaborating with foreigners trying to have unfair and disproportional gains of power and land on our expense by helping those foreigners get what they want from our island.

Contradicting yourself in One post Piratis......Nice



A "GreeK State" EY!!!!!:lol: Collaborating with a foreign country ey!!

[Piratis]

I'm not crying at all Piratis. I'm laughing at the usual diatrabe that engulfs this forum everyday.
Thanks for the my friend quote. Chin up!

You should say this to your partitionist friends who are trying to manufacture history in order to excuse yet more crimes against us today. I am sorry, but I can not just sit and listen when the invaders of Cyprus come here pretending to be the victims because they also had some (comparatively few) losses in the wars they started against us in order to stop Cyprus from being free and democratic.

The fact is that all wars and conflicts in Cyprus between us and the Turks/TCs were started by the Turks/TCs because they wanted to have gains of power/land on our expense.

The only thing we ever fought for was the right of Cypriots to determine their own destiny in a democratic way, instead of having some foreigners impose their will on us.

[Piratis]

So it was fine for Cyprus to be under Ottoman (or British) rule without the blessing of the 82% of the population (actually the 100% initially) and with native Cypriots as slaves, but not OK to be part of a free Greek state without the blessing of the 18%???

Does Turkey take the blessing of the 20% of Kurds for anything they will do??

There was absolutely no risk for the lives of TCs with union with Greece. The only thing you would lose would be the unfair privileges granted to you on our expense by the invaders of Cyprus.

In 1958 you attacked us and you re-started the war against us. 1960 was not a "clean slate". How the hell could it be a "clean slate" when British got bases on our land, Turks got to keep troops on Cyprus, and the small TC minority was given so many unfair privileges on our expense?

The fact is that you re-started the war in 1958 and this war did not end in 1960 with your victory as you would hope. There will be no end in the war with your victory. The war will go on until Cyprus is free and democratic and your minority will accept to be like every other minority in every other country, and stop collaborating with foreigners trying to have unfair and disproportional gains of power and land on our expense by helping those foreigners get what they want from our island.

Contradicting yourself in One post Piratis......Nice



A "GreeK State" EY!!!!!:lol: Collaborating with a foreign country ey!!

Uniting with the rest of Greece is what the Cypriot people wanted. So who are you to impose to the Cypriot people what they can do with their own island?

If you still don't understand the difference here it is even easier:

Cyprus, would be part of the Greek state because the vast majority of Cypriots are Greek and they themselves wanted to be part of a Greek state.

On the other hand Cyprus was under the British and Ottoman empires because this is what the FOREIGNERS not the Cypriots wanted.

Get it? And those foreigners used your small minority in order to get what they want in Cyprus against the will of the native Cypriot people.

Rhodes united with Greece in 1948 and it has a Turkish minority on it. Do you have a problem with Rhodes being part of the Greek state Zan? Is Rhodes "foreign" to Greece?

The same happened with all other Greek territories. Initially only a small part of Greece was liberated. Then in the next 100+ years gradually more and more Greek islands and territories united(=enosis) with the rest of Greece.

Several of those territories islands have Turkish minorities on them. So what? Does it mean that Greeks could not have their own free Greek state encompassing all the Greek territories and islands because there was some Turkish minority on them??