Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I am not trying to justify anything,Paphidis.
I have often stated my position on Turkey's actions.
I believe that the initial act of intervention was legal and justified.

Bir, legal and justified on what basis?

Legal would have been, had the issue which started been discussed in the UN SC on the evening of Friday the 19th July 74, and the resolution that would have been issued, did not produce any results, and consequently the SC would have authorised the undertaking of military action, always under its auspices. That is what would have been legal under international law, and not the way Turkey acted by invading unilaterally! You have to remember that the provisions of the UN Charter take binding priority over the provisions of any other international agreement (article 103 of the UN Charter.) In the same way that Greece acted illegally, by intervening through its officers in the Cypriot National Guard in order to overthrow Makarios; in exactly the same illegal way acted Turkey, by unilaterally invading Cyprus. They both illegally intervened /invaded into a sovereign UN member country, that only the UN SC has such power to authorise.

Justified? Justified would have been, had the coupists attacked the TCs or had shown intention to do so, and therefore their lives were by fact in an immanent thread. Such was not the case, and the coupist “government” not only did not show such an intent, but to the contrary it proclaimed that the TCs were not in danger and that the intercommoned negotiations would have continued where they had stopped previously, between Klerides and Denktash! Okay, I accept one can say that perhaps that was a trick on their behalf, perhaps to gain time. However, since the issue had begun to be discussed in the UN already by the evening of the 19th of July, Turkey could have waited for the outcome. The UN SC would have in all likelihood issued a resolution, in which it would have asked the coupists to immediately surrender power back to Makarios. Had they failed to do so, then Turkey could have asked the SC to allow or authorise its intervention. Turkey instead, sidestepped all legal diplomatic and political means, and rushed to invade before allowing time for a resolution to be obtained. It only consulted with Britain, which said to them to wait and allow diplomacy and other means of pressure to materialise, and then perhaps consider any other action.

Why dont you ask what those Bosnians think about waiting for the UN SC to take action, your head was not on the chopping block, 11 years of build up was enough to terrify TCS, you would do yourself great justice to talk to TCs like my fatherinlaw who lived through those bad times when TCs were not at risk.

[Kifeas]

I am not trying to justify anything,Paphidis.
I have often stated my position on Turkey's actions.
I believe that the initial act of intervention was legal and justified.

Bir, legal and justified on what basis?

Legal would have been, had the issue which started been discussed in the UN SC on the evening of Friday the 19th July 74, and the resolution that would have been issued, did not produce any results, and consequently the SC would have authorised the undertaking of military action, always under its auspices. That is what would have been legal under international law, and not the way Turkey acted by invading unilaterally! You have to remember that the provisions of the UN Charter take binding priority over the provisions of any other international agreement (article 103 of the UN Charter.) In the same way that Greece acted illegally, by intervening through its officers in the Cypriot National Guard in order to overthrow Makarios; in exactly the same illegal way acted Turkey, by unilaterally invading Cyprus. They both illegally intervened /invaded into a sovereign UN member country, that only the UN SC has such power to authorise.

Justified? Justified would have been, had the coupists attacked the TCs or had shown intention to do so, and therefore their lives were by fact in an immanent thread. Such was not the case, and the coupist “government” not only did not show such an intent, but to the contrary it proclaimed that the TCs were not in danger and that the intercommoned negotiations would have continued where they had stopped previously, between Klerides and Denktash! Okay, I accept one can say that perhaps that was a trick on their behalf, perhaps to gain time. However, since the issue had begun to be discussed in the UN already by the evening of the 19th of July, Turkey could have waited for the outcome. The UN SC would have in all likelihood issued a resolution, in which it would have asked the coupists to immediately surrender power back to Makarios. Had they failed to do so, then Turkey could have asked the SC to allow or authorise its intervention. Turkey instead, sidestepped all legal diplomatic and political means, and rushed to invade before allowing time for a resolution to be obtained. It only consulted with Britain, which said to them to wait and allow diplomacy and other means of pressure to materialise, and then perhaps consider any other action.

Why dont you ask what those Bosnians think about waiting for the UN SC to take action, your head was not on the chopping block, 11 years of build up was enough to terrify TCS, you would do yourself great justice to talk to TCs like my fatherinlaw who lived through those bad times when TCs were not at risk.

VP, the coup in Cyprus was not planned and executed by Junta in order to kill the TCs, or to unilaterally declare union of Cyprus with Greece. The coup was executed because the generals in Greece wanted to eliminate Makarios, for purely personal reasons and because they wouldn't "tolerate" him any longer to ignore, humiliate and ridicule them internationally! This was their ultimate objective, and in their stupidity (Ioannidis, the Chief of Junta, was a known imbecile,) did not think this would have been used as a convenient pre-text by Turkey to invade, even though they knew Turkey was planning and preparing for an invasion since a few years back. He just counted on what Kissinger and some CIA agents told him in Greece, that if he wants to eliminate Makarios, they (US) would have "taken care" of the Turks (i.e. not to let them invade.) Furthermore, their bosses in the US (Kissinger and CIA,) were winding them even more against Makarios, due to the fact that Makarios was trying to balance between Soviet Union and the NATO interests, instead of taking a firm pro west and anti- Russian stance during a then cold war era.

[Kifeas]

For the record, this is the first resolution issued by the UN SC after the Turkish invasion, on the evening of the 20th of July 1974.

S/RES/354 (1974)

20 July 1974


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 1771st meeting,
on 20 July 1974

The Security Council,

Having considered the report of the Secretary-General, at its 1779th meeting, about the recent developments in Cyprus,

Having heard the statement of the President of the Republic of Cyprus and the statements of the representatives of Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and other Member States,

Noting also from the report the conditions prevailing in the island,

Deeply deploring the outbreak of violence and the continuing bloodshed,

Gravely concerned about the situation which has led to a serious threat to international peace and security, and which has created a most explosive situation in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area,

Equally concerned about the necessity to restore the constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus, established and guaranteed by international agreements,

Conscious of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in accordance with Article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.

2.Calls upon all parties to the present fighting as a first step to cease all firing and requests all States to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from any action which might further aggravate the situation;

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, (i.e. 950 member Greek and 650 member Turkish contingents of the 1960 agreements) including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed;

6. Calls upon all parties to co-operate fully with the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus to enable it to carry out its mandate;

7. Decides to keep the situation under constant review and asks the Secretary-General to report as appropriate with a view to adopting further measures in order to ensure that peaceful conditions are restored as soon as possible.

Adopted unanimously at the 1781st meeting.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr354.htm

[zan]

For the record, this is the first resolution issued by the UN SC after the Turkish invasion, on the evening of the 20th of July 1974.

S/RES/354 (1974)

20 July 1974


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 1771st meeting,
on 20 July 1974

The Security Council,

Having considered the report of the Secretary-General, at its 1779th meeting, about the recent developments in Cyprus,

Having heard the statement of the President of the Republic of Cyprus and the statements of the representatives of Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and other Member States,

Noting also from the report the conditions prevailing in the island,

Deeply deploring the outbreak of violence and the continuing bloodshed,

Gravely concerned about the situation which has led to a serious threat to international peace and security, and which has created a most explosive situation in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area,

Equally concerned about the necessity to restore the constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus, established and guaranteed by international agreements,

Conscious of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in accordance with Article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.

2.Calls upon all parties to the present fighting as a first step to cease all firing and requests all States to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from any action which might further aggravate the situation;

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, (i.e. 950 member Greek and 650 member Turkish contingents of the 1960 agreements) including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed;

6. Calls upon all parties to co-operate fully with the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus to enable it to carry out its mandate;

7. Decides to keep the situation under constant review and asks the Secretary-General to report as appropriate with a view to adopting further measures in order to ensure that peaceful conditions are restored as soon as possible.

8. Requires all Turkish Cypriots to go back to their enclaves and resume starvation and uncertainty in their own country!

Adopted unanimously at the 1781st meeting.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr354.htm

Should all the parts of that resolution be in effect Kifeas or just the ones you would like.....I made the most important one large enough for even you to see!!!!!!!And added an 8th condition just in case you prefer to leave out the one I enlarged

[Kifeas]

Zan, the coupists resigned in 24 hours after the resolution, and Klerides -the constitutional acting president in Makarios absence, took over, the junta in Greece had fallen the day after, and the GC side declared its willingness to return back to the constitutional order. Those that obstructed this development were Turkey and the TC leadership under Denktash, who refused to abide by the UN resolution and the GC declaration /invitation, and instead they (Turkey) continued its invasion, even after the agreed cease fire after the 22nd of July 1974. These are facts well documented by the UN and available to everybody to read.

[zan]

Zan, the coupists resigned in 24 hours after the resolution, and Klerides -the constitutional acting president in Makarios absence, took over, the junta in Greece had fallen the day after, and the GC side declared its willingness to return back to the constitutional order. Those that obstructed this development were Turkey and the TC leadership under Denktash, who refused to abide by the UN resolution and the GC declaration /invitation, and instead they (Turkey) continued its invasion, even after the agreed cease fire after the 22nd of July 1974. These are facts well documented by the UN and available to everybody to read.

Can I see a copy of that unconditional return to the FULL constitution????


The fact that you were reenforcing positions while talks were going on and still trying to trick us into a false sense of security didn't prompt the second phase I suppose???

[Viewpoint]

I am not trying to justify anything,Paphidis.
I have often stated my position on Turkey's actions.
I believe that the initial act of intervention was legal and justified.

Bir, legal and justified on what basis?

Legal would have been, had the issue which started been discussed in the UN SC on the evening of Friday the 19th July 74, and the resolution that would have been issued, did not produce any results, and consequently the SC would have authorised the undertaking of military action, always under its auspices. That is what would have been legal under international law, and not the way Turkey acted by invading unilaterally! You have to remember that the provisions of the UN Charter take binding priority over the provisions of any other international agreement (article 103 of the UN Charter.) In the same way that Greece acted illegally, by intervening through its officers in the Cypriot National Guard in order to overthrow Makarios; in exactly the same illegal way acted Turkey, by unilaterally invading Cyprus. They both illegally intervened /invaded into a sovereign UN member country, that only the UN SC has such power to authorise.

Justified? Justified would have been, had the coupists attacked the TCs or had shown intention to do so, and therefore their lives were by fact in an immanent thread. Such was not the case, and the coupist “government” not only did not show such an intent, but to the contrary it proclaimed that the TCs were not in danger and that the intercommoned negotiations would have continued where they had stopped previously, between Klerides and Denktash! Okay, I accept one can say that perhaps that was a trick on their behalf, perhaps to gain time. However, since the issue had begun to be discussed in the UN already by the evening of the 19th of July, Turkey could have waited for the outcome. The UN SC would have in all likelihood issued a resolution, in which it would have asked the coupists to immediately surrender power back to Makarios. Had they failed to do so, then Turkey could have asked the SC to allow or authorise its intervention. Turkey instead, sidestepped all legal diplomatic and political means, and rushed to invade before allowing time for a resolution to be obtained. It only consulted with Britain, which said to them to wait and allow diplomacy and other means of pressure to materialise, and then perhaps consider any other action.

Why dont you ask what those Bosnians think about waiting for the UN SC to take action, your head was not on the chopping block, 11 years of build up was enough to terrify TCS, you would do yourself great justice to talk to TCs like my fatherinlaw who lived through those bad times when TCs were not at risk.

VP, the coup in Cyprus was not planned and executed by Junta in order to kill the TCs, or to unilaterally declare union of Cyprus with Greece. The coup was executed because the generals in Greece wanted to eliminate Makarios, for purely personal reasons and because they wouldn't "tolerate" him any longer to ignore, humiliate and ridicule them internationally! This was their ultimate objective, and in their stupidity (Ioannidis, the Chief of Junta, was a known imbecile,) did not think this would have been used as a convenient pre-text by Turkey to invade, even though they knew Turkey was planning and preparing for an invasion since a few years back. He just counted on what Kissinger and some CIA agents told him in Greece, that if he wants to eliminate Makarios, they (US) would have "taken care" of the Turks (i.e. not to let them invade.) Furthermore, their bosses in the US (Kissinger and CIA,) were winding them even more against Makarios, due to the fact that Makarios was trying to balance between Soviet Union and the NATO interests, instead of taking a firm pro west and anti- Russian stance during a then cold war era.

Was this supposed to make us feel safe? The TCs were shit scared and had been suffering at the hands of the "majority" for 11 years, the coup was the last drop which caused intervention which was supposed to solve our differencies which we are still unable to resolve even today.

[utu]

Zan,

If what you say is true, and TC's were forced off their lands at gunpoint into enclaves, then why has there been no major effort to redress this? I would have thought that the EU would have wanted to see resolution on such a thing.

[zan]

Zan,

If what you say is true, and TC's were forced off their lands at gunpoint into enclaves, then why has there been no major effort to redress this? I would have thought that the EU would have wanted to see resolution on such a thing.

This question is very confusing utu...what era are you talking about??

[utu]

1963... when the troubles started. I was under the impression that the Turkish phace 2 of Operation Attila was to "redress the property losses of the Turks"