Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

You don't deserve to return to this island at all Zan.

Says who....You?

[DT.]

You don't deserve to return to this island at all Zan.

Says who....You?

Thats right.

[zan]

You don't deserve to return to this island at all Zan.

Says who....You?

Thats right.

The same thinking in the 60s, that TCs are not part of Cyprus too, didn't work DT and it will not now.......You have no right over me.......

[DT.]

You don't deserve to return to this island at all Zan.

Says who....You?

Thats right.

The same thinking in the 60s, that TCs are not part of Cyprus too, didn't work DT and it will not now.......You have no right over me.......

Never spoke about rights Zan. Learh to read carefully, I said you don't "deserve".

[zan]

You don't deserve to return to this island at all Zan.

Says who....You?

Thats right.

The same thinking in the 60s, that TCs are not part of Cyprus too, didn't work DT and it will not now.......You have no right over me.......

Never spoke about rights Zan. Learh to read carefully, I said you don't "deserve".

For speaking up against injustices to the TC people.......Well! There is only one point of view that would say that was wrong now wouldn't there.......One that supports the "RoC" that is not the CYPRUS REPUBLIC......

[Byron]

Sorry!


The split is 70/30 as opposed to the 37% we hold now. The recognition of the TRNC would be the 30%. Compensation to all that have lost land at current market prices. Thats it really...The rest is up to the two separate countries........Don't really understand what you mean by no preconditions though.......Can it happen without them?

A 7% reduction in land to be given back to the GC's and compensation to be paid to those that lost their homes on both sides with recognition of the TRNC as a seperate state. Have I understood correctly ?

I think so!

So if this was accepted by the GC's we would have a done deal. Am I right ? If so what do other GC's think of this proposal ?

That about sums it up Byron.

Instead of discussion we get abuse.

I read the proposal made by Kifeas: he advocates a 97% / 3% split between the two communities. Zan is offering 70% / 30% ; I do not think we are making any progress at all here. The Turks want to keep what they have, the Greeks, Greek Cypriots or Cypriots want to restore the status quo but the Turks disagree while the world at large looks on bemused.

This is a problem that nobody wishes to solve !

What do you understand the status quo is Byron....

Pre 1974 !

Well! In 1960 we had our rights in government...By 1963, we didn't......The Greeks used every trick in the book to see to that. Can you be more specific on your date or did you not know about 1960 or 63???

I am not too sure where you are leading too. I said that the Greeks, Greek Cypriots or Cypriots wish to restore the Cyprus Republic to the position it was before the 1974 Turkish Invasion when the Cyprus Republic represented 100% of Cypriot territory. This may not necessarily be my view but how I perceive the wishes of most Greeks, Greek Cypriots or Cypriots but I may be wrong.

The 1960 constitution has never been changed and I am not too sure what 1963 has got to do with it. You are advocating for a 70/30 split with recognition of the TRNC so what the Greek side believes is irrelevant to you.

Since there is such a wide difference of opinion, no solution will be possible that is my message. There is no need to heat up the fire further.

Then may I respectfully ask you to read up on what has and has not been changed in the original Zurich agreement and the events of 1963 in which I was effected directly and which lead to my family fleeing for their lives. The government that was supposedly representing 100% of Cyprus was not the government that was put into power under the Zurich agreement. Since 1963 the TCs have been under isolation....Not quite the "status quo" that you referred to.

Besides that....I am one of the Cypriots you refer to......I don't want to return to pre 1974 but to pre 1963 and so do thousands like me.

My understanding is that the TC's walked out of the government in 1963. During the pre 1963 period the TC's used their veto to block the passing of governmental laws. I am not aware of any changes to the constitution at all. If as you say changes were made in 1963 please list them out so we can make further study and debate.

On the subject of " Cypriot" no offence was intended to you, Since on the Greek side there is confusion on this forum whether we are Greek, Greek Cypriot or just Cypriot, I have quoted all of them within the same umbrella to encompass all view points.

[BirKibrisli]

Byron,
What happened in 1963 depends on who you speak to...In pure propaganda terms the GC's will tell you that the 60 agreements were unfair and signed under duress...So President Makarios tried to change the Constitution to make the Sate more fair and more managable...The TCs didn't like this and walked out....

In pure propaganda terms the TC will tell you that it was always the GC ambition to achieve Enosis,Union with Greece...They signed the agreement in order to get rid of the British and then turn on to the real job of achieving Enosis at all cost...That was what Makarios was up to...So the TCs heroically resisted this,and was pushed out of government at gun point....

Both of these points of view are correct, subjectively....The objective truth lies somewhere in the middle...But you will never get anyone to agree on any one version of the truth...This is where most Cypriots go wrong...We are as stuborn as our famour donkeys,hence we believe our version is the gospel truth (and its Islamic equivalent )...

Now see if you can digest this,which is really the easy part...Then we come to the 63-74 ,a somewhat more complicated period...And then the big mama of them all,the 74 events and post 74 era....Let me know how you are managing so far...And we might take it further...

[DT.]

Byron,
What happened in 1963 depends on who you speak to...In pure propaganda terms the GC's will tell you that the 60 agreements were unfair and signed under duress...So President Makarios tried to change the Constitution to make the Sate more fair and more managable...The TCs didn't like this and walked out....

In pure propaganda terms the TC will tell you that it was always the GC ambition to achieve Enosis,Union with Greece...They signed the agreement in order to get rid of the British and then turn on to the real job of achieving Enosis at all cost...That was what Makarios was up to...So the TCs heroically resisted this,and was pushed out of government at gun point....

Both of these points of view are correct, subjectively....The objective truth lies somewhere in the middle...But you will never get anyone to agree on any one version of the truth...This is where most Cypriots go wrong...We are as stuborn as our famour donkeys,hence we believe our version is the gospel truth (and its Islamic equivalent )...

Now see if you can digest this,which is really the easy part...Then we come to the 63-74 ,a somewhat more complicated period...And then the big mama of them all,the 74 events and post 74 era....Let me know how you are managing so far...And we might take it further...

He'll blow a circuit when he reaches 2004 Bir

[zan]

Byron,
What happened in 1963 depends on who you speak to...In pure propaganda terms the GC's will tell you that the 60 agreements were unfair and signed under duress...So President Makarios tried to change the Constitution to make the Sate more fair and more managable...The TCs didn't like this and walked out....

In pure propaganda terms the TC will tell you that it was always the GC ambition to achieve Enosis,Union with Greece...They signed the agreement in order to get rid of the British and then turn on to the real job of achieving Enosis at all cost...That was what Makarios was up to...So the TCs heroically resisted this,and was pushed out of government at gun point....

Both of these points of view are correct, subjectively....The objective truth lies somewhere in the middle...But you will never get anyone to agree on any one version of the truth...This is where most Cypriots go wrong...We are as stuborn as our famour donkeys,hence we believe our version is the gospel truth (and its Islamic equivalent )...

Now see if you can digest this,which is really the easy part...Then we come to the 63-74 ,a somewhat more complicated period...And then the big mama of them all,the 74 events and post 74 era....Let me know how you are managing so far...And we might take it further...

I,m happy with that except for not enough emphasis on the ENOSIS part....Thanks Bir!!!

[Byron]

Byron,
What happened in 1963 depends on who you speak to...In pure propaganda terms the GC's will tell you that the 60 agreements were unfair and signed under duress...So President Makarios tried to change the Constitution to make the Sate more fair and more managable...The TCs didn't like this and walked out....

In pure propaganda terms the TC will tell you that it was always the GC ambition to achieve Enosis,Union with Greece...They signed the agreement in order to get rid of the British and then turn on to the real job of achieving Enosis at all cost...That was what Makarios was up to...So the TCs heroically resisted this,and was pushed out of government at gun point....

Both of these points of view are correct, subjectively....The objective truth lies somewhere in the middle...But you will never get anyone to agree on any one version of the truth...This is where most Cypriots go wrong...We are as stuborn as our famour donkeys,hence we believe our version is the gospel truth (and its Islamic equivalent )...

Now see if you can digest this,which is really the easy part...Then we come to the 63-74 ,a somewhat more complicated period...And then the big mama of them all,the 74 events and post 74 era....Let me know how you are managing so far...And we might take it further...

I have read all your replies; quite frankly I am not really interested in discussing the past there are always two sides to an argument. I am more interested in the present and future. As far as I can see and I have commented on it previously, no solution will be possible because both sides are locked in their own positions and not prepared to budge and worst of all the outside world does not care at all. End of story.

To conclude the debate " Do TC's want to live in a GC state as a minority?"; the answer is no the TC's do not wish to live in such a state but neither do the GC's wish to create one - stalemate once again.