Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

"MrH," the only comment I wish to make is that the scull you picked up as your avatar, very accurately reflects the kind of dead-end ideas you posses, as they appear in the above post and in this forum! They indeed made a really good job on you, and I can only feel sorry for you, for the halusinating utopian stage of world you seem to go through! You have no touch with reality, whatsoever, and a very childish way of thinking!

Kifeas give MrH a chance the majority of what he has put forward is very relevent as do you think we will ever find a solution to force both sides to live united? obviously neither community trusts or wants to live with the other unless it is on their own terms and those terms are unaceeptable to both sides, so the only real alternative is agree partition with added incentives to both sides to encourage them to work side by side as 2 states.

Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.

YES because the alternative is clear and would force TCs to live in a GC state run by GCs leaving us exposed with no community rights just classed as another minority, foreigners in our own country.

Viewpoint - kindly please clarify partition- a seperate independent Turkish Cypriot state in Cyprus, union with Turkey as a seperate province or either ?

Partition is what we have now with recognition and Union with Turkey is also we have now with our country being turned into a province and called Turkey.

Viewpoint - Then the majority of TC's are therefore in favour of " Enosis with Turkey" or " Taksim " - as it is known in Turkish; is that correct and if so what % of the population in your opinion would be in favour of this type of solution ?

Viewpoint - a reply would be very much appreciated to take the discussion further. Thank you.

Apologies for delay but I didnt notice your question, in response without a solution which is near enough impossible due to the chasm that exists between the 2 sides TCs would prefer to obtain recognition for the TRNC as is alternatively if that is not forth coming and if it benefits TCs will move closer to official unification with Turkey.

[Byron]

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.

[Viewpoint/quote]

YES because the alternative is clear and would force TCs to live in a GC state run by GCs leaving us exposed with no community rights just classed as another minority, foreigners in our own country.

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint - kindly please clarify partition- a seperate independent Turkish Cypriot state in Cyprus, union with Turkey as a seperate province or either ?

[Viewpoint /quote]

Partition is what we have now with recognition and Union with Turkey is also we have now with our country being turned into a province and called Turkey.

[Byron/quote]

Viewpoint - Then the majority of TC's are therefore in favour of " Enosis with Turkey" or " Taksim " - as it is known in Turkish; is that correct and if so what % of the population in your opinion would be in favour of this type of solution ?

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint - a reply would be very much appreciated to take the discussion further. Thank you.

[Viewpoint /quote]

In 2004, Byron, the TCs voted for unification......We got a big bad OXI from the GCs.....There comes a time when all TCs have to think about giving up on the GCs......We realise that the "RoC" has got its ENOSIS through the EU....Are you asking us to wait for ever???

[Byron /quote]

My question asked you what % of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Union with Turkey. You are not answering my question. Answer my question first then we can discuss the outcome of the Ananan plan let's not mix the two for now. You previously stated that partition is the only answer for a solution. What I wish to know is what % of the Turkish Cypriots support your view; or perhaps are you in the minority. If you are in the majority then we Greeks, Greek Cypriots or Cypriots need to change our game plan. Quite simple really. Kindly answer the question and we continue to discuss in a civilised manner. Thanks.

[zan]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

[Byron]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

[zan]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

There is no theory Byron...Just reality. The reality is we are given no real choices by the "RoC" as it stands.....Just like your government represents your views then ours represents ours. Make of that what you will. Reality also tells us that Greece and Turkey have an interest in this also. Ignore it and you will be confused as to what it is that you must do, for ever.


The truth is that more and more TCs are thinking that the Turkish route is the only route and being people that just want to get on with their lives and knowing SOMETHING must give, are resolute to achieve that goal. It is the shutting of the unification door that has caused this. Don't act all so surprised at the outcome.

[Byron]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

There is no theory Byron...Just reality. The reality is we are given no real choices by the "RoC" as it stands.....Just like your government represents your views then ours represents ours. Make of that what you will. Reality also tells us that Greece and Turkey have an interest in this also. Ignore it and you will be confused as to what it is that you must do, for ever.


The truth is that more and more TCs are thinking that the Turkish route is the only route and being people that just want to get on with their lives and knowing SOMETHING must give, are resolute to achieve that goal. It is the shutting of the unification door that has caused this. Don't act all so surprised at the outcome.

Frankly I am not surprised by your comments at all. You say ( or my interpretation of your message) that TC's are not given a choice by the Greek Cypriots. If you were given a choice what would be your proposals?

[Viewpoint]

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint- are you saying that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Partition.

[Viewpoint/quote]

YES because the alternative is clear and would force TCs to live in a GC state run by GCs leaving us exposed with no community rights just classed as another minority, foreigners in our own country.

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint - kindly please clarify partition- a seperate independent Turkish Cypriot state in Cyprus, union with Turkey as a seperate province or either ?

[Viewpoint /quote]

Partition is what we have now with recognition and Union with Turkey is also we have now with our country being turned into a province and called Turkey.

[Byron/quote]

Viewpoint - Then the majority of TC's are therefore in favour of " Enosis with Turkey" or " Taksim " - as it is known in Turkish; is that correct and if so what % of the population in your opinion would be in favour of this type of solution ?

[Byron /quote]

Viewpoint - a reply would be very much appreciated to take the discussion further. Thank you.

[Viewpoint /quote]

In 2004, Byron, the TCs voted for unification......We got a big bad OXI from the GCs.....There comes a time when all TCs have to think about giving up on the GCs......We realise that the "RoC" has got its ENOSIS through the EU....Are you asking us to wait for ever???

[Byron /quote]

My question asked you what % of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of Union with Turkey. You are not answering my question. Answer my question first then we can discuss the outcome of the Ananan plan let's not mix the two for now. You previously stated that partition is the only answer for a solution. What I wish to know is what % of the Turkish Cypriots support your view; or perhaps are you in the minority. If you are in the majority then we Greeks, Greek Cypriots or Cypriots need to change our game plan. Quite simple really. Kindly answer the question and we continue to discuss in a civilised manner. Thanks.

You appear to be the one confused Taksim and Enosis with Turkey are 2 different things and follow on from each other, solution which is near enough impossible onto recogntion of the physical partition we have today, if this is not possible then onto official enosis with Turkey. If one is not possible then the TCs would support the other one 100%.

[zan]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

There is no theory Byron...Just reality. The reality is we are given no real choices by the "RoC" as it stands.....Just like your government represents your views then ours represents ours. Make of that what you will. Reality also tells us that Greece and Turkey have an interest in this also. Ignore it and you will be confused as to what it is that you must do, for ever.


The truth is that more and more TCs are thinking that the Turkish route is the only route and being people that just want to get on with their lives and knowing SOMETHING must give, are resolute to achieve that goal. It is the shutting of the unification door that has caused this. Don't act all so surprised at the outcome.

Frankly I am not surprised by your comments at all. You say ( or my interpretation of your message) that TC's are not given a choice by the Greek Cypriots. If you were given a choice what would be your proposals?

Of course you shouldn't be surprised! You may want to rethink as to why you are not though.


I have proposals that are unachievable as in the return to the Zurich agreement in full as if nothing has happened or the most sensible in that we make a clean break and get on with our lives with those that have lost land to get compensation......realitic compensation, of which my family are one.

What happens in the future as to unification is up to the people of the day and the circumstances...It's time to move on!

[Byron]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

There is no theory Byron...Just reality. The reality is we are given no real choices by the "RoC" as it stands.....Just like your government represents your views then ours represents ours. Make of that what you will. Reality also tells us that Greece and Turkey have an interest in this also. Ignore it and you will be confused as to what it is that you must do, for ever.


The truth is that more and more TCs are thinking that the Turkish route is the only route and being people that just want to get on with their lives and knowing SOMETHING must give, are resolute to achieve that goal. It is the shutting of the unification door that has caused this. Don't act all so surprised at the outcome.

Frankly I am not surprised by your comments at all. You say ( or my interpretation of your message) that TC's are not given a choice by the Greek Cypriots. If you were given a choice what would be your proposals?

Of course you shouldn't be surprised! You may want to rethink as to why you are not though.


I have proposals that are unachievable as in the return to the Zurich agreement in full as if nothing has happened or the most sensible in that we make a clean break and get on with our lives with those that have lost land to get compensation......realitic compensation, of which my family are one.

What happens in the future as to unification is up to the people of the day and the circumstances...It's time to move on!

With the utmost due respect you are not providing me with any proposals for a political solution. I am not advocating a return to the Zurich Agreements. I agree it is time to move on but under what political mechanisim? that is why I am asking you to provide me with your suggestions of a solution without pre-conditions. Let's kindly hear them ?

[zan]

I thought we were discussing this in a civilised manner Byron


There is no answer to your question because the numbers are desputed whichever way they point......The one thing that should help you to solve your problem is to ask how many TCs live in the "RoC" and how many in the TRNC......The answer then is quite clear. I have no actual figures for you.

Hey Zan, I am discussing in a civil manner. It was you who said the vast majority of TC's support partition. If there are no real statistics fine just say in my opinion the majority support Union with Turkey. Unless we have clear defined lines we shall never know. The fact that most TC's live in the North does not mean that they would be against restoring the ROC status quo. In fact you said earlier that the majority of TC's voted in favour of the Annan plan which contradicts to your theory.

There is no theory Byron...Just reality. The reality is we are given no real choices by the "RoC" as it stands.....Just like your government represents your views then ours represents ours. Make of that what you will. Reality also tells us that Greece and Turkey have an interest in this also. Ignore it and you will be confused as to what it is that you must do, for ever.


The truth is that more and more TCs are thinking that the Turkish route is the only route and being people that just want to get on with their lives and knowing SOMETHING must give, are resolute to achieve that goal. It is the shutting of the unification door that has caused this. Don't act all so surprised at the outcome.

Frankly I am not surprised by your comments at all. You say ( or my interpretation of your message) that TC's are not given a choice by the Greek Cypriots. If you were given a choice what would be your proposals?

Of course you shouldn't be surprised! You may want to rethink as to why you are not though.


I have proposals that are unachievable as in the return to the Zurich agreement in full as if nothing has happened or the most sensible in that we make a clean break and get on with our lives with those that have lost land to get compensation......realitic compensation, of which my family are one.

What happens in the future as to unification is up to the people of the day and the circumstances...It's time to move on!

With the utmost due respect you are not providing me with any proposals for a political solution. I am not advocating a return to the Zurich Agreements. I agree it is time to move on but under what political mechanisim? that is why I am asking you to provide me with your suggestions of a solution without pre-conditions. Let's kindly hear them ?

I did Byron A clean break. 70/30