Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions.

You take into consideration a violation that has already happened but you only want repair to the GC ones. They get back everything they lost AND control of the island by walking over our rights. You call that fair

It seems that you would like to return to a specific point in time and that is 1963. You are being generous though.....Then we only really had 3%.....

[zan]

Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions.

You take into consideration a violation that has already happened but you only want repair to the GC ones. They get back everything they lost AND control of the island by walking over our rights. You call that fair

It seems that you would like to return to a specific point in time and that is 1963. You are being generous though.....Then we only really had 3%.....

By the way......Your conditions and the way you phrase it is tantamount to asking for a pound of flesh.......Shylock got nothing in the end.

[Viewpoint]

A financially indepedent unrecognized TRNC would mean we could stand on our own 2 feet and show more flexibilty towards GC demands, plus it would be less of a financial burden if we should decide to unite. The GCs are cutting their noses off despite their faces.

I think the GC's may grant the TC's as you ask VP, a financially independent unrecognised "trnc", providing, in my view;

a) that the TC's does not occupy more than 18% of the north
b) that the Turkish Army leaves
c) that the RoC has complete control of it's borders and immigration
d) that the International laws are obeyed
e) that all Cypriots Human Rights are restored
f) that there is a complete freedom of movement in all of Cyprus.

The TC's in effect will have their own state with their own state and local government without international representation for that state or representatives in the RoC. The state will operate it's own ports for commerce, attract investments from anywhere in the world to generate money to run that state to meets it's fiscal budgets so that it is able to care for their own community as well as for others living in that state. That state will runs it's schools, hospitals, tourism, and all others as if it were an independent sovereign country. The RoC will give financial assistance to rebuild the infrastructure of the north on a 50%-50% basis for "Federal projects", such as Highways, Communications, Ports and so on, with the north state paying 50% of the cost.

(since the north state will not be paying any "Federal taxes" to the RoC, the cost will be shared on a 50-50 basis, but once the north state starts paying "Fedral taxes" in the future, if they choose to become part of the "new Federal country", then it will become 90%-10%, with the Federal money becoming 90% of the cost and the state's cost will be 10%. This will help the north to bring their infrastructure up to the rest of the country)

The north state will remain independent but always as territory of the RoC and until the times comes to be part of the RoC, that state will remain out of the EU as an independent state, but rather that state will gain benefits from the EU via the RoC. All Cypriots will remain a citizens of the RoC for their ID and Passports. Only when the independent north state becomes part of the RoC in a new True Federation country, that the north state will also engage in the government of the new country of United States of Cyprus under True Democracy with political equality. The north state can choose when they feel comfortable to become part of the new country without deadlines, the United States of Cyprus. Until the above happens, I do not believe the RoC is going to be willing to see the north prosper by lifting the isolation. There has to be "carrots and sticks" approach to reunite the island in a true sense of the word. If the north now had all the "carrots" under the present conditions as any other sovereign country, where is the incentive to be part of the new United States of Cyprus country.

I believe the answer is, NONE.!

Before answering the above which you have put forward on behalf of the GCs, could you kindly if you are a TC put forward our sides viewpoint and demands? Please do not try to worm your way out as it will be clear to everyone exactly where your priorities lay and that your credibility is shot to pieces as you are very very biased and cannot understand the mindset coming from the TCs.

Anything you don't like, then it must be a something that only benefits the GC's. My proposals have all the TC's points in wanting to have a state where they control it, short of a partition of course, which is the part that upsets you the most. We already know what your unachievable demands are for lifting the economic isolation in order for the north to be financially strong, in order for the north and the south to reunite on equal basis. What you demand is a partition in a form of Confederation where there is a virgin birth of two founding states , two nationalities and two sovereign nations. You want to achieve all this, a north state built on 80% of land owned by the GC's, and you do not see a problem with your vision. Excuse me VP, but I've seen blind people navigate their way through crowded streets with their walking sticks much better than you are trying to navigate your way to a forming your own legal state, and unlike the blind person who understands realities of his surroundings and limitations of his abilities, you do not seem to have any concept of your own realities and abilities, hence the fact the "trnc" is nothing but a illegal and financially bankrupt de facto state that has no future under the current condition in Cyprus.

In any case, I was only answering your question as to why you can't have a financially independent unrecognised state in the north that you would like to see. Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions. Lets see how well you will do VP with those parameters in place as mentioned above, because it is very easy to make demands as you always do, but you always fail to support Democratic and Human Rights of ALL Cypriots when making those demands.

As for my credibility, it only matters to those who value others Democratic and Human Rights and not by those who do not share in the same values, as you obviously do not seem to yourself, therefore VP, you are the wrong person to pass judgement on my credibility and moral judgements when it comes to Cyprus. I'm for all Cypriots, TC's and GC's for a peaceful existence on the island, whereas you only care about yourself and other NeoPartitonist on how to violate other Democratic and Human Rights to get a partition, disguised through "peaceful negotiations" or in broad daylight that everyone can see.

So in short you do not have any conditions or safeguards we should ask for when negotiating our future united with GCs and you call me blind? You comfortably put forward all the arguments of GCs yet you do not have anything to say as a TC? as to judgement of your credibility far from me to do that but others can see right through you because they are not stupid as to your real aims which are not to create a compromise or find middle ground on any issue but the put forward GC arguments 100% therefore leaving us exposed to the mercy of GCs in a GC state.

I have answered both your posts VP, so as Zan would say, "stop pissing in the wind" and answer my question, and since Zan has also joined in the conversation, why don't you both put your brains together and answer the simple question that was put to you and stop with all other theatrics. The questions from below was ;

In any case, I was only answering your question as to why you can't have a financially independent unrecognised state in the north that you would like to see. Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions. Lets see how well you will do VP with those parameters in place as mentioned above, because it is very easy to make demands as you always do, but you always fail to support Democratic and Human Rights of ALL Cypriots when making those demands.

I have on a number of occassion put my opinions forward, my real intention was get from you any arguement on behalf of the TC people which you did not put forward, I asked you not to try and worm your way out of answering but you did exactly that by answering a question with a question, so in fact you failed to put forward unbiased views and that yout you only support the GCs in their demands.

[Kikapu]

In any case, I was only answering your question as to why you can't have a financially independent unrecognised state in the north that you would like to see. Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions. Lets see how well you will do VP with those parameters in place as mentioned above, because it is very easy to make demands as you always do, but you always fail to support Democratic and Human Rights of ALL Cypriots when making those demands.

I have on a number of occassion put my opinions forward, my real intention was get from you any arguement on behalf of the TC people which you did not put forward, I asked you not to try and worm your way out of answering but you did exactly that by answering a question with a question, so in fact you failed to put forward unbiased views and that yout you only support the GCs in their demands.

Thank you VP, for once again proving to us, even with the help of Zan's brain, that you could not answer a simple question put to you, but you are ready to condemn others with their ideas to help solve some of the problems that you yourself would like to see happen. There is no such thing as "free lunch" VP. Don't expect others to do everything for you, if you are not wiling to do anything in return.

[zan]

In any case, I was only answering your question as to why you can't have a financially independent unrecognised state in the north that you would like to see. Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions. Lets see how well you will do VP with those parameters in place as mentioned above, because it is very easy to make demands as you always do, but you always fail to support Democratic and Human Rights of ALL Cypriots when making those demands.

I have on a number of occassion put my opinions forward, my real intention was get from you any arguement on behalf of the TC people which you did not put forward, I asked you not to try and worm your way out of answering but you did exactly that by answering a question with a question, so in fact you failed to put forward unbiased views and that yout you only support the GCs in their demands.

Thank you VP, for once again proving to us, even with the help of Zan's brain, that you could not answer a simple question put to you, but you are ready to condemn others with their ideas to help solve some of the problems that you yourself would like to see happen. There is no such thing as "free lunch" VP. Don't expect others to do everything for you, if you are not wiling to do anything in return.

Do you have trouble understanding what is said to you.......We have partition and a working two state system with one trying to hold the other back.......Lift the Embargoes and isolation and let us get on with our lives...That is what I hope because it is a sensible way given all the problems. Stop trying to take over the island and make it Greek. Keep what you have gained from persecuting us and at best you might get a 70/30 split. You get use of Turkish ports and all that goes with it and we get a crack at life for the first time in our lives. Understand!!!!

[Nikitas]

"It just shows Kikapus American way of thinking VP.......They have the same deal with the American indians......Most of them have to stay pissed in order to forget the deal they signed!!!!"

You have the NERVE to liken the Turks as victims in Cyprus!!!! You really take the cake! You expelled the indigenous population, you imported settlers, and then you try to liken yourselves to American Indians!

And exactly like the American settlers you try to paint the victim as the bad guy, you import place names from the colonising nation, you erase the culture and history of the place, and on top of it all you expect to have your crime officialised by the native population.

You are totally nuts!

[zan]

"It just shows Kikapus American way of thinking VP.......They have the same deal with the American indians......Most of them have to stay pissed in order to forget the deal they signed!!!!"

You have the NERVE to liken the Turks as victims in Cyprus!!!! You really take the cake! You expelled the indigenous population, you imported settlers, and then you try to liken yourselves to American Indians!

And exactly like the American settlers you try to paint the victim as the bad guy, you import names from the colonising nation, you erase the culture and history of the place, and on top of it all you expect to have your crime officialised by the native population.

You are totally nuts!

OH! Sorry........I think that maybe the fact that I was close to being erased and replaced by Greeks, long before any of your lot got what we were getting, is what influences my thoughts

Now if you calm down and read things as they are written instead of trying to defend all your wrongs then you might just make out that I was referring to Kikapu wanting us to live on a reservation.......

[Nikitas]

Whereas if the GCs live on a reservation, denied what is theirs is OK.

[zan]

Whereas if the GCs live on a reservation, denied what is theirs is OK.

You live on the proceeds of a country that belongs to both GCs and TCs Nikitas......That not enough for you.......Didn't see you crying for the TCs over the last 40 or so years or asking for our rights to be returned....Funny that!!!!!Just like the Great Miltiades who says he is the friend of TCs going on rally after rally marching under the Greek flag....You people are amazing!!!

[Kifeas]

In any case, I was only answering your question as to why you can't have a financially independent unrecognised state in the north that you would like to see. Since you do not accept my suggestions, why don't you give us your suggestions on how you can achieve what you want without violating any one's Democratic and Human Rights, which I took into consideration in my suggestions. Lets see how well you will do VP with those parameters in place as mentioned above, because it is very easy to make demands as you always do, but you always fail to support Democratic and Human Rights of ALL Cypriots when making those demands.

I have on a number of occassion put my opinions forward, my real intention was get from you any arguement on behalf of the TC people which you did not put forward, I asked you not to try and worm your way out of answering but you did exactly that by answering a question with a question, so in fact you failed to put forward unbiased views and that yout you only support the GCs in their demands.

Thank you VP, for once again proving to us, even with the help of Zan's brain, that you could not answer a simple question put to you, but you are ready to condemn others with their ideas to help solve some of the problems that you yourself would like to see happen. There is no such thing as "free lunch" VP. Don't expect others to do everything for you, if you are not wiling to do anything in return.

Do you have trouble understanding what is said to you.......We have partition and a working two state system with one trying to hold the other back.......Lift the Embargoes and isolation and let us get on with our lives...That is what I hope because it is a sensible way given all the problems. Stop trying to take over the island and make it Greek. Keep what you have gained from persecuting us and at best you might get a 70/30 split. You get use of Turkish ports and all that goes with it and we get a crack at life for the first time in our lives. Understand!!!!

Sorry Zan, but I thought we already said how much we are willing to offer, in order to buy your above proposal, and this is not a 70/30 split that you quoted, but a 97/3 instead. Only 3% is what you are entitled, and we have already explained to you how this figure is obtained. Why do you keep asking for so much more?