Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Unfortunately you pretend that all was great for GCs until 1974, you pretend that GCs are the ones who started it all in 63, and you do all this why? Because you want to EXCUSE the crimes and illegalities that are committed against us today. This is why I am forced to show you the part of history you choose to forget.

I do not pretend it was all the GC's fault...I believe that your demand for Enosis and your refusal to honour the 1960 agreements during the short life of the True RoC had at least as much to do as anything the TCs did during that time...You on the other hand justify both enosis and the Akritas plan,and Makarios' actions...Who is being blindly one-sided here?

We didn't lose the war. This is the mistake that many TCs do. They think that they won the war, and that they should now receive their gains on our expense. This stops them from negotiating a fair solution.

The standards of living of Greek Cypriots are twice higher than those of the "winner" TCs. Today our courts have the ability to convict anybody they want in the occupied areas and have their ruling enforced in all other EU countries. We can also affect the negotiations of Turkey with EU. This war is far from over.

You are in denial,Piratis..You lost the actual war and the winning side is still occupying 37% of Cyprus...I know this pill is difficult to swollow,but
that is the reality...If you look at history,you will see that no territory won in hot conflict has been given back without extracting major concessions from the losing side...what makes this more complicated if the fact that
20% of the inhabitants of the island welcome the occupying power...Stating this does not mean I approve of it..It is just stating the facts you want to deny...The standard of living is higher in the south simply because the world wrongly recognises the GC government as legitimate...There is nothing legitimate about the RoC state as far as the TCs go...It is power stolen from them in 1963 which gave them the moral right to set up their own state...Saying this again is stating the obvious,it doesnt mean I approve of human right abuses or your lossess or anybody else's gains...so please stop and think about what I am saying with an open mind...Personally i have lost eveything in this conflict,people from my famliy has been killed,all have become refugees,all have lost their land and properties,and I lost my country as well...so don't please insult me by claiming I want to justify human right abuses in Cyprus...The TCs have been the biggest victims of this bloody conflict...That some TCs connected to Denktas and the upper TMT leadership,plus plenty of settlers have gained on your losses does not change this fact...30,000 TCs became refugees during 1963-67 period,and you must acknowledge your responsibility in that,instead of blaming it very conveniently all on the TMT...

[BirKibrisli]

Now you tell me what you think of the GCs stealing the RoC and going on to get rich on their ill-gained legitimacy at the expence of the TCs...???/
I am all ears...

How exactly did the Greek Cypriots "steal" the RoC if by your own admission…

“…soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition”

...so the TCs abandoned their posts due to the pressure you described by the TMT, in accordance with Turkey's request?

No,the TMT's efforts would never have been enough without the EOKA and Makarios puting the fear of death into us....go and read the Akritas plan carefully..It is all describe in there,how they plotted to sideline the TCs and assume all the power...You are trying your best to be selective with your facts,GR! But it won't work with me...I know both sides of the story,nd I am not biased and prejudiced like you are...You have to admit your guilt and show some remorse for your share of the stupidity..then we might get somewhere...

For a self-confessed bunch of TMT terrorists (your family) you sure got a nerve!

The TMT my family belonged to were not terrorists,they were noble defenders of our lives against fascist EOKA terrorists...Did you have any of those in your family,GR!??? come on,you can tell Unkie Bir!

I don't understand this strange phenomena Bir. The TCs were enclaved protected by TMT. How can Greeks claim that TMT attacked them when each enclave was surrounded. The only way to get out of each village was with un escort. What the hell are these GCs talking about?

Years ago when I first came on this forum,I thought there was only one way we could foster understanding and empathy and compassion etc...If we criticised our own side and owned up to some of our faults...Then everyone would do the same and soon we would be talking honestly and openly about how silly it all was and we would make progress... so I talked about some of the mistakes of the TMT and some of their strong arm tactics...It took me some time to realise I was only reinforcing most of these peoples prejudices and blinkered brainwashing...Most people here already believed that the pain and suffering of the TCs could be blamed entirely on the TMT, because it was the TMT which forced us into the enclaves to advance Denktas' Taksim dream...It is just too convenient to absolve your side of all the guilt and turn it against your "enemy"...Some honestly have no idea what we went through during 63-74..Others know too well but just simply keep spewing out GC official propaganda in the hope that if you repeat something enough times people will believe it...Others are in total denial,cannot even bring themelves to think their side couldve possibly done what we say they have done...It is too much for their psychology to contemplate it for too long...Then you have a handful of really decent and honorable GCs I will always be proud to call my brothers and compatriots...We should always remember that...

Bir, let me ask you something. Aren't here in this forum, but also in many other forums and websites, TCs who act and behave in exactly the same way as you rightfully present some GCs in this forum to be? You cannot deny this fact, Bir! There are as many GCs -at least in this forum, as there are TCs, who show the same insensitivity and arrogance towards the other side's pain and suffering, as well as the same disregard for their legitimate rights. What should we do then? Should we all start making a mockery of ourselves, by adopting the same equally negative and untruthful attitude, so as to give them a "lesson?" I personally refuse to play such a meaningless game, first out of self respect, and then because I have better things to do in my life. I would rather stay away from such a forum, as much as possible; if as in this case the administrators, for their own reasons, are unable to control what and who is posting in it. Nevertheless, never forget that there is just about the same amount of garbage being posted by TCs, as there is by GCs. If you make a closer observation to such people, most if not all of them are problematic and disturbed individuals, be it GCs or TCs.

Wise words from you,as usual Kifeas...
I agree with you,but I feel I need to do something to shake these people up,to make them see what they are really doing,how much they are hurting the process of mutual understanding and respect...

You are one of the few people here who knows how much Cyprus means to me,and how much I'd love to see a solution which will allow my community to find their rightful place in Cyprus...I see these twisted and bitter individuals fueling the hatred and the resentment more and more with every post ..Remaining silent is not the answer either...We do not have another platform to communicate on a mass scale...If we let them drive us away in disgust would not racism,prejudice and bigotry won the day??? There must be something we can do without becoming part of the problem ourselves ,which I accept I might be in danger of becoming as well...

[BirKibrisli]

Your always asking me to answer your burps. Make a sensibe question to todays times without hatred and I'll answer you honestly as I can. Being a prickly weed to prove your moot points is nothing but pathetic.

Can I play this game too,GU??? I think it will really be a very useful exercise...I promise to answer any of your questions openly and honestly if you do the same...

Here are my key questions:

1...Do you think the TCs were right or wrong in opposing Enosis with Greece? Please explain...

2...What do you know about why and how the TCs lost their rights in the 1960 constitutional government???

3...What do you know about the treatment of the TCs during the 1963-74 period? How do you think they managed to survive for 11 years as "shadow"citizens of the ROC???

4...Why do you think the Coup against Makarios happened in July,74...???

5...What was the implication of the coup for the TCs?

6...Do you think Turkey was justified in coming in the way they did in 74? Please explain...

These will do for now...Any or all GCs,please feel free to reply...

Birk, your asking me the same questions that leads to no where except back to the sixties. This isn't the way to get out of our sticky-wicky, and this isn't the way forward. It's up to mama tourkalla to move on with your life. Its not your call chief, so stop trying to hammer me with your bullshit.

I beg to differ..If we do not deal with the past and heal our wounds we cannot move on...But you are right,it would be a waste of time on my part reading your replies...I can imagine what you would say,word by word...That is our tragedy,dear friend...Head in the sand attitude...

So keep on believing that Cyprus problem began on a sunny day in July,74 when Turkey invaded out of the blue...Refuse to deal with the events leading up to it,and see how far it will get us towards a solution...

[growuptcs]

Your always asking me to answer your burps. Make a sensibe question to todays times without hatred and I'll answer you honestly as I can. Being a prickly weed to prove your moot points is nothing but pathetic.

Can I play this game too,GU??? I think it will really be a very useful exercise...I promise to answer any of your questions openly and honestly if you do the same...

Here are my key questions:

1...Do you think the TCs were right or wrong in opposing Enosis with Greece? Please explain...

2...What do you know about why and how the TCs lost their rights in the 1960 constitutional government???

3...What do you know about the treatment of the TCs during the 1963-74 period? How do you think they managed to survive for 11 years as "shadow"citizens of the ROC???

4...Why do you think the Coup against Makarios happened in July,74...???

5...What was the implication of the coup for the TCs?

6...Do you think Turkey was justified in coming in the way they did in 74? Please explain...

These will do for now...Any or all GCs,please feel free to reply...

Birk, your asking me the same questions that leads to no where except back to the sixties. This isn't the way to get out of our sticky-wicky, and this isn't the way forward. It's up to mama tourkalla to move on with your life. Its not your call chief, so stop trying to hammer me with your bullshit.

I beg to differ..If we do not deal with the past and heal our wounds we cannot move on...But you are right,it would be a waste of time on my part reading your replies...I can imagine what you would say,word by word...That is our tragedy,dear friend...Head in the sand attitude...

So keep on believing that Cyprus problem began on a sunny day in July,74 when Turkey invaded out of the blue...Refuse to deal with the events leading up to it,and see how far it will get us towards a solution...

You will always beg to differ to bring up the sixties Bir, so this whole healing wounds wont work at all.

[boomerang]

Your always asking me to answer your burps. Make a sensibe question to todays times without hatred and I'll answer you honestly as I can. Being a prickly weed to prove your moot points is nothing but pathetic.

Can I play this game too,GU??? I think it will really be a very useful exercise...I promise to answer any of your questions openly and honestly if you do the same...

Here are my key questions:

1...Do you think the TCs were right or wrong in opposing Enosis with Greece? Please explain...

2...What do you know about why and how the TCs lost their rights in the 1960 constitutional government???

3...What do you know about the treatment of the TCs during the 1963-74 period? How do you think they managed to survive for 11 years as "shadow"citizens of the ROC???

4...Why do you think the Coup against Makarios happened in July,74...???

5...What was the implication of the coup for the TCs?

6...Do you think Turkey was justified in coming in the way they did in 74? Please explain...

These will do for now...Any or all GCs,please feel free to reply...

Birk, your asking me the same questions that leads to no where except back to the sixties. This isn't the way to get out of our sticky-wicky, and this isn't the way forward. It's up to mama tourkalla to move on with your life. Its not your call chief, so stop trying to hammer me with your bullshit.

I beg to differ..If we do not deal with the past and heal our wounds we cannot move on...But you are right,it would be a waste of time on my part reading your replies...I can imagine what you would say,word by word...That is our tragedy,dear friend...Head in the sand attitude...

So keep on believing that Cyprus problem began on a sunny day in July,74 when Turkey invaded out of the blue...Refuse to deal with the events leading up to it,and see how far it will get us towards a solution...

regardless of what you think bir...turkey'e responsibility as guarantor was for the whole of cyprus and not just one of the communities...so yeah one sunny day in '74 turkey invaded cyprus and committed ethnic cleansing...

the main reason of having a guarantor in the first place was to take care of problems and not enhanse them...

[Tim Drayton]

It probably is and instead of learning something from his forum’s failure he saw fit to accuse this one again!

I had thought many years ago that online fora could be a means for ordinary GC and TC to reconcile their differences directly as indivduals. I tried here and then thought that the lack moderation and the way that every discussion descended into childish personal abuse was the limiting factor, and thus helped with others in the creation of an alternative site that sought discussion without personal attack. Having tried that experiment I have now come to the conclusion that little constructive is actually gained from fora like this, in terms of reconciling GC and TC and their perspectives. Not totaly useless, I meet some interesting and nice people, and you as well GR but ultimately I have concluded that online fora such as these can only have a very limited sucsess if the objective is reconciling differences rather than hardening and reinforcing them.

I do have some vague plans for new websites. I am thinking maybe

www.cyprus-abuse-forum.com

specificaly designed for cypriots and others to hurl insults and absue at each other. Posts containg reason, logic well made argument or heaven foprbid concilliation in any form will of course be instantly deleted and the poster unfairly abused by the mods / admins of the forum who will also incite others to jump in too. I think it may have a great future. I will keep you informed GR if I ever get it going as I think you could become a even bigger star there than you think you are here.

My other websites I am thinking of setting up are the social networking site for heavy drinkers and drug users

www.offyourfacebook.com

And the social networking site for convicted criminals

www.convictsreunited.com

Planning a bank job, but have lost touch with that getway driver you met during a 6 stretch in broadmore back in 78 ? Just log onto convictsreunited and track em down.

First time I have laughed out loud at a post here for a long time. Thanks.

[Pyrpolizer]

Bir said:

if you look at history,you will see that no territory won in hot conflict has been given back without extracting major concessions from the losing side...

I am wondering if there has been a precedent in history where territory has been returned and what were the concessions.

[BirKibrisli]

Your always asking me to answer your burps. Make a sensibe question to todays times without hatred and I'll answer you honestly as I can. Being a prickly weed to prove your moot points is nothing but pathetic.

Can I play this game too,GU??? I think it will really be a very useful exercise...I promise to answer any of your questions openly and honestly if you do the same...

Here are my key questions:

1...Do you think the TCs were right or wrong in opposing Enosis with Greece? Please explain...

2...What do you know about why and how the TCs lost their rights in the 1960 constitutional government???

3...What do you know about the treatment of the TCs during the 1963-74 period? How do you think they managed to survive for 11 years as "shadow"citizens of the ROC???

4...Why do you think the Coup against Makarios happened in July,74...???

5...What was the implication of the coup for the TCs?

6...Do you think Turkey was justified in coming in the way they did in 74? Please explain...

These will do for now...Any or all GCs,please feel free to reply...

Birk, your asking me the same questions that leads to no where except back to the sixties. This isn't the way to get out of our sticky-wicky, and this isn't the way forward. It's up to mama tourkalla to move on with your life. Its not your call chief, so stop trying to hammer me with your bullshit.

I beg to differ..If we do not deal with the past and heal our wounds we cannot move on...But you are right,it would be a waste of time on my part reading your replies...I can imagine what you would say,word by word...That is our tragedy,dear friend...Head in the sand attitude...

So keep on believing that Cyprus problem began on a sunny day in July,74 when Turkey invaded out of the blue...Refuse to deal with the events leading up to it,and see how far it will get us towards a solution...

You will always beg to differ to bring up the sixties Bir, so this whole healing wounds wont work at all.

Okey,you refuse to talk about the 60s....What if the TCs refuse to talk about the 70s,particularly July and August,74... Do you think that will get us far...??? what do you think we should be talking about??? You name your topic and the period,and we 'll see...

[BirKibrisli]

Your always asking me to answer your burps. Make a sensibe question to todays times without hatred and I'll answer you honestly as I can. Being a prickly weed to prove your moot points is nothing but pathetic.

Can I play this game too,GU??? I think it will really be a very useful exercise...I promise to answer any of your questions openly and honestly if you do the same...

Here are my key questions:

1...Do you think the TCs were right or wrong in opposing Enosis with Greece? Please explain...

2...What do you know about why and how the TCs lost their rights in the 1960 constitutional government???

3...What do you know about the treatment of the TCs during the 1963-74 period? How do you think they managed to survive for 11 years as "shadow"citizens of the ROC???

4...Why do you think the Coup against Makarios happened in July,74...???

5...What was the implication of the coup for the TCs?

6...Do you think Turkey was justified in coming in the way they did in 74? Please explain...

These will do for now...Any or all GCs,please feel free to reply...

Birk, your asking me the same questions that leads to no where except back to the sixties. This isn't the way to get out of our sticky-wicky, and this isn't the way forward. It's up to mama tourkalla to move on with your life. Its not your call chief, so stop trying to hammer me with your bullshit.

I beg to differ..If we do not deal with the past and heal our wounds we cannot move on...But you are right,it would be a waste of time on my part reading your replies...I can imagine what you would say,word by word...That is our tragedy,dear friend...Head in the sand attitude...

So keep on believing that Cyprus problem began on a sunny day in July,74 when Turkey invaded out of the blue...Refuse to deal with the events leading up to it,and see how far it will get us towards a solution...

regardless of what you think bir...turkey'e responsibility as guarantor was for the whole of cyprus and not just one of the communities...so yeah one sunny day in '74 turkey invaded cyprus and committed ethnic cleansing...

the main reason of having a guarantor in the first place was to take care of problems and not enhanse them...

right ,boomers,and you know what is coming...

the RoC government had duty of care for all her citizens...But one December day in 1963 Makarios woke up and decided it was the right time to expell the TCs from government,and put the fear of death into them to make them run into enclaves...hence began ethnic cleansing in Cyprus,11 years before 1974....Now where will we go from here????

[Oracle]

All this talk of softening inter-communal blows from the past with reconciliatory hugs is acceptable (and do-able) if you believe Turkey is here ONLY to safeguard the (older) TCs.

Her injection of fresh Turks (into this dangerous GC-infected territory and stronghold ) proves that Turkey just wants to perpetuate conflict in order to have her way with us forever more.

Only a collaborating or consenting fool cannot see that the only way to free our future path is to get rid of these highwaymen, quickly and completely.