BirKibrisli wrote:Piratis wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:Get Real! wrote:aussieturk wrote:What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.
But it didn’t start out that way did it?
Immediately after the Turkish invasion, the Turkish Cypriots plundered all that the GC refugees had left behind including their homes, furniture, cash, cars, tractors, lorries, businesses, supermarkets, everything was looted! I’ll bet it must’ve felt like all your Christmases came at once eh?
The 185,000 GC refugees on the other hand, wasted in 4x3 wooden shacks for 15+ years before the war-bankrupt RoC could move them one by one to specially erected refugee housing communities that littered the unoccupied territory of Cyprus.
After a devastating start that lasted for some 20 years, the Greek Cypriot perseverance, resourcefulness, and business acumen gradually turned things around and today the RoC boasts an enviable economy and standard of living.
The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand, started out with enough loot to last them a lifetime… or so they thought, because there were enough abandoned GC properties for each Turkish Cypriot to have 4 houses, a couple of cars, 3-4 sets of furniture, and plenty of cash, gold, and other valuables found in ransacked homes, banks, and other buildings, so they just sat on their laurels like true Ottomans always do until the years went by and the loot was used up so they then turned to handouts from Turkey!
Stop your revisionist activities now,or you will go bllindddddddd!
You want to be
one-sided GR! Lets go....
You wanted to gift Cyprus to Greece...You signed an agreement and went to work treacherously to undermine it before the ink was dry...You have attacked mercilessly and massacred he TCs at will,till you drove them into enclaves...Then you highjacked the Republic of Cyprus,and used all its means and official recognition to get rich on great TC expence! You never gave up on Enosis,and tried again in 74 to unite Cyprus with Greece by force of arms..Turkey performed the greatest peace operation on earth,and wiped your sorry arses...You want me to go on?? Now where will this get us???? You tell me,sunshine...
Well Bir, why talk one sided and untrue crap, when we can just say the truth?
1) Cypriots could democratically choose to unite their own island with whomever they want, Greece, EU or China (as long as those we unite with accept us too). When Cyprus united with EU did we "gift" Cyprus to EU? You really do try hard to make our rights sound bad, don't you?
The time that Cyprus would belong to whomever conquered it, and against the will of the Cypriot people, is over.
The UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "free association with an independent State,
integration into an independent State, or independence as the three
legitimate options of full self-government.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htmSo integration into an independent State is just as legitimate as independence, and it should be up to the people of each territory being decolonized to democratically choose which legitimate option they prefer.
Unfortunately you think we still live in the era of the Ottomans where you could oppress the Cypriot people and determine where Cyprus should be long and where it shouldn't, against the will of the vast majority of the population.
2) The 1960 constitution was
not a result of the free will of the Cypriot people but something imposed on us by foreign Imperialists. You helped those imperialists to deny to the Cypriot people their rights and as a reward those Imperialists granted to your minority privileges on the expense of every other Cypriot. You never had any right for those ill received gains.
3) The attacks and massacres against innocent people were started by the TCs against the GCs in 1958. On June 7th 1958 you burned houses and shops of innocent GCs in Nicosia, and on June 12 1958 you committed the first massacre against innocent and unarmed GCs.
I repeat that I recognize your suffering during the 60s. But you should also recognize your own wrong doings and crimes during the 50s and 60s, and stop pretending that you are the "innocent" victims who now have to be rewarded on the expense of the "evil" GCs by having some "Turkish State" on land stolen from us.
You definitely have
no right to ethnically cleanse us and to create some "Turkish state" on land which had a vast majority of GCs for 1000s of years. The equivalent demand from us would be to demand your ethnic cleansing from Cyprus, and to be given your lands as a compensation for the crimes you committed against us. What would you think of GCs that have such demands? Think of it, and then you will understand what we think about you and the other partitionists.
I am simply playing GR's game,Piratis..If he wants to be one-sided so can I...The point I am trying to make is,IT WILL GET US NOWHERE...
You are a worse offender than GR!...You only pay lipservice to the suffering of the TCs...You too are v ery selective with your truths,and you always justify all the GC wrongs...You are totally convinced that your side is whiter than white...As long as you believe that you will be part of the problem...We will never find a solution...What you call truths are only half-truths,Piratis..They are the GC truths...The TC truths are like the ones I am beginning to tell you...B ecause I realised that for years i was only reinforcing your brainwahsing, by criticising only the TCs...Do you think I have changed my tune now...No,I stand behind every post that I wrote on this forum...I have simply adapted to the reality on this forum...As long as you keep finding excuses for all your wrongs,and keep blaming the TCs and Turkey for everything,you will find me telling you only half the story...
No Bir, I am not the one who is looking for excuses,
you are.
I never excused the crimes against innocent TCs and I never denied that TCs suffered. I am perfectly clear about this.
Unfortunately you pretend that all was great for GCs until 1974, you pretend that GCs are the ones who started it all in 63, and you do all this why? Because you want to
EXCUSE the crimes and illegalities that are committed against us
today. This is why I am
forced to show you the part of history you choose to forget.
I am not the one who is saying that the TCs should have their land stolen, that they should be ehtnically cleansed, or that their human rights should be violated, because of what TCs have done to us in the past. You are the one who is looking for such excuses, not me.
Personally I do not believe in collective punishment. I do not believe that because some people from your community have committed crimes against some people of my community, that today I should have gains on the expense of your human rights. I believe that each person should be judged for his/her own actions, regardless of what his ethnicity or religion is or what community he/she belongs, and that innocent people deserve the
100% of their human and democratic rights.
I am a lawful Cypriot and EU citizen. I never committed any crime and I have every right to demand the full respect of my human and democratic rights. I will never surrender any of these rights. You can take them away by force, but I refuse to sign them away.
And here is another TC and Turkish reality you must face...It is also a universal reality,though you will find it diffcult to accept...When there is a war and one side loses and the winner occupy some territory,the losers have to make big compromises to get the winners to abandon their gains...This has always been so in history,Piratis,and this is so now...Is it right? No it isnt..Is it fair? No it isnt..Is it justice? No it isnt..but it is a fact of life...It is cruel,Piratis,I know,but that is how it is...I cannot change it any more than you can...If you don't want to be the biggest compromiser,and if you want to get rid of the winner,then you need to find a way of forcefully evict them...This is what you think you are doing,by applying EU pressure you believe you will get Turkey to go away without you making any major compromises...You are mistaken...You are playing in to Erdogan's hands...keep on refusing to agree to a solution less than the ideal for you,and it will be on your head...Please don't take this as a threat...It is only a friend's warning...One day you will look back and remember my words,and will know that I was doing my b est to make you see the realities of the situation so that all Cypriots might not loose big time...It will be too late by then...But there is still time now for sense and reason to work...Let go of the resentment and the bitterness and the hatred that is in your heart and soul,Piratis....Open your mind to other possibilities,to empathy and compassion...You have had all the power of the RoC state in your collective hands since 1963,and you have failed badly in your duty of care for your TC minority... Just accept it,don't try to find excuses...Live up to your responsibilities towards your TC compatriots,and give them time and reasons to understand,trust and respect you...It is the only way to a lasting and peaceful solution...
We didn't lose the war. This is the mistake that many TCs do. They think that they won the war, and that they should now receive their gains on our expense. This stops them from negotiating a fair solution.
The standards of living of Greek Cypriots are twice higher than those of the "winner" TCs. Today our courts have the ability to convict anybody they want in the occupied areas and have their ruling enforced in all other EU countries. We can also affect the negotiations of Turkey with EU. This war is far from over.
If the TCs were willing to drop their demands to an
acceptable level then a deal could be possible. What you fail to understand is that things like Annan plan are not just "not ideal", they are actually
worst than what we have now for us. Such plan would solve
all problems of TCs and Turkey, while in our case it would solve only some problems for a minority of GCs and create a ton more problems for all of us.
