Cyprus-Forum.com

[aussieturk]

for what they have done to us from 1958 until 2010 (and counting).

The GC's are so innocent in the 50's through to 1974, they didn't do a thing to the TC's. I wonder why 100's thousands migrated to London and Australia and other places, was it the intimidation, was it mass murders and wiping out of whole villages, was it being treated as second class citizens, was it the resulting unemployment and poverty and being forced into enclaves, or they just felt like migrating.

My friend, both sides have suffered, you only present the TC's as the big bad boys and the GC's as the innocent.

What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.

[Get Real!]

What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.

But it didn’t start out that way did it?

Immediately after the Turkish invasion, the Turkish Cypriots plundered all that the GC refugees had left behind including their homes, furniture, cash, cars, tractors, lorries, businesses, supermarkets, everything was looted! I’ll bet it must’ve felt like all your Christmases came at once eh?

The 185,000 GC refugees on the other hand, wasted in 4x3 wooden shacks for 15+ years before the war-bankrupt RoC could move them one by one to specially erected refugee housing communities that littered the unoccupied territory of Cyprus.

After a devastating start that lasted for some 20 years, the Greek Cypriot perseverance, resourcefulness, and business acumen gradually turned things around and today the RoC boasts an enviable economy and standard of living.

The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand, started out with enough loot to last them a lifetime… or so they thought, because there were enough abandoned GC properties for each Turkish Cypriot to have 4 houses, a couple of cars, 3-4 sets of furniture, and plenty of cash, gold, and other valuables found in ransacked homes, banks, and other buildings, so they just sat on their laurels like true Ottomans always do until the years went by and the loot was used up so they then turned to handouts from Turkey!

[BirKibrisli]

What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.

But it didn’t start out that way did it?

Immediately after the Turkish invasion, the Turkish Cypriots plundered all that the GC refugees had left behind including their homes, furniture, cash, cars, tractors, lorries, businesses, supermarkets, everything was looted! I’ll bet it must’ve felt like all your Christmases came at once eh?

The 185,000 GC refugees on the other hand, wasted in 4x3 wooden shacks for 15+ years before the war-bankrupt RoC could move them one by one to specially erected refugee housing communities that littered the unoccupied territory of Cyprus.

After a devastating start that lasted for some 20 years, the Greek Cypriot perseverance, resourcefulness, and business acumen gradually turned things around and today the RoC boasts an enviable economy and standard of living.

The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand, started out with enough loot to last them a lifetime… or so they thought, because there were enough abandoned GC properties for each Turkish Cypriot to have 4 houses, a couple of cars, 3-4 sets of furniture, and plenty of cash, gold, and other valuables found in ransacked homes, banks, and other buildings, so they just sat on their laurels like true Ottomans always do until the years went by and the loot was used up so they then turned to handouts from Turkey!

Stop your revisionist activities now,or you will go bllindddddddd!

You want to be one-sided GR! Lets go....
You wanted to gift Cyprus to Greece...You signed an agreement and went to work treacherously to undermine it before the ink was dry...You have attacked mercilessly and massacred he TCs at will,till you drove them into enclaves...Then you highjacked the Republic of Cyprus,and used all its means and official recognition to get rich on great TC expence! You never gave up on Enosis,and tried again in 74 to unite Cyprus with Greece by force of arms..Turkey performed the greatest peace operation on earth,and wiped your sorry arses...You want me to go on?? Now where will this get us???? You tell me,sunshine...

[Get Real!]

BirKibrisli, why don't you make yourself interesting and your time worthwhile, by telling us about your experiences in the mother of all plunders that the Turkish Cypriots commenced immediately after the last ceasefire at the end of August 1974?

[BirKibrisli]

BirKibrisli, why don't you make yourself interesting and your time worthwhile, by telling us about your experiences in the mother of all plunders that the Turkish Cypriots commenced immediately after the last ceasefire at the end of August 1974?

I will,if you tell me first your experiences in the Father of all plunders that the Greek Cypriots commenced right after driving the TCs out of government and stole state power for themselves ,in 1963...

[Get Real!]

BirKibrisli, why don't you make yourself interesting and your time worthwhile, by telling us about your experiences in the mother of all plunders that the Turkish Cypriots commenced immediately after the last ceasefire at the end of August 1974?

I will,if you tell me first your experiences in the Father of all plunders that the Greek Cypriots commenced right after driving the TCs out of government and stole state power for themselves ,in 1963...

I don't need to because you've already briefed us on all that when you posted about your father's involvement in the TMT as an area commander, and your house that served as a TMT weapons-depot which you guarded! Remember?

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:50 am

I know the official history of the EOKA and the TMT,bigOZ...
I will let others (preferably GCs talk about the rights and wrongs of EOKA)
but let me tell you a few things about TMT...The movement which produced TMT started much earlier,after the 2nd world war...It was a political movement called Volkan,and it s aims were to safeguard TC interests in case of a British withdrawal.My father was one of the founders of Volkan...when it was decided that an underground fighting force was necessary to combat any possible aggression from GCs TMT was founded...My father was a regional commmader in the Paphos area (he was also a teacher) and I remember our house in Yalya turned into an arms depot,with us kids as the guardians and protectors of the loot...Many a night I lay in bed snuggling up to handguns,stenguns,and granades,while British soldiers serched our house...Being British they never thought to look under the doona of a sleeping child or a sick (!) woman...and they never found the arms...while TMT was under the control of Dr Kuchuk and A>M>Berberoglu (my father's side) it functioned pretty much as was intended...But when Turkey decided that they needed "real action men" to run TMT Rauf Denktash and Burhan Nalbantoglu took over...Turkey threatened to kill Kuchuk and his supporters if they resisted,so they didn't...soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition...This is when my father,who was an honorable man,fell out with Denktash and Co and he was on their hitlist for a while...In fact Father was on the hitlist of EOKA as well,as they rightly suspected that he was the area commander in Paphos...But when the hitman finally arrived he was from the TMT,but by divine intervention,he turned out to be one of my father's former students...So instead of killing him he warned him of the danger,and I remember a time when we were on the move all the time to avoid a second hitman...
So dear, bigOz,I owe my exile to Australia to the TMT more than the EOKA...
This does not mean that TMT did nothing good for the TCs...or that all members were murderous thugs...But the leaders were,and they were kept in check somehow by the Turkish colonel in charge of TMT during the early 60s (Kemal Coskun code named Bayraktar,who was withdrawn to Turkey after the 67 events)...sorry to disappoint you,bigOz,but after more than 50 years of keeping silent about these things,I have earned the right to talk...It is upto you to believe me or not...But ask yourself,what motivation would I have to make all this up???All this information is in the public arena these days anyway...Read Arif Hasan Tahsin Hoca's column in Afrika and you will learn the truth about the TMT...warts and all...I want to stress the point that most underground organisations like TMT eventually end up serving the interests of those who control them,and not the general community interests...TMT was conrolled by Denktash locally and Turkey overseas,so it ended up serving their interests...In the process many good,honorable people who wanted to serve the interest of the TC people or the interests of all Cypriots were killed or sent into exile...I know you mean well,bigOz,and sorry once again if I woke you up from the dream imposed by Denktash and Co's propaganda machine...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus11396-10.html

[BirKibrisli]

BirKibrisli, why don't you make yourself interesting and your time worthwhile, by telling us about your experiences in the mother of all plunders that the Turkish Cypriots commenced immediately after the last ceasefire at the end of August 1974?

I will,if you tell me first your experiences in the Father of all plunders that the Greek Cypriots commenced right after driving the TCs out of government and stole state power for themselves ,in 1963...

I don't need to because you've already briefed us on all that when you posted about your father's involvement in the TMT as an area commander, and your house that served as a TMT weapons-depot which you guarded! Remember?

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:50 am

I know the official history of the EOKA and the TMT,bigOZ...
I will let others (preferably GCs talk about the rights and wrongs of EOKA)
but let me tell you a few things about TMT...The movement which produced TMT started much earlier,after the 2nd world war...It was a political movement called Volkan,and it s aims were to safeguard TC interests in case of a British withdrawal.My father was one of the founders of Volkan...when it was decided that an underground fighting force was necessary to combat any possible aggression from GCs TMT was founded...My father was a regional commmader in the Paphos area (he was also a teacher) and I remember our house in Yalya turned into an arms depot,with us kids as the guardians and protectors of the loot...Many a night I lay in bed snuggling up to handguns,stenguns,and granades,while British soldiers serched our house...Being British they never thought to look under the doona of a sleeping child or a sick (!) woman...and they never found the arms...while TMT was under the control of Dr Kuchuk and A>M>Berberoglu (my father's side) it functioned pretty much as was intended...But when Turkey decided that they needed "real action men" to run TMT Rauf Denktash and Burhan Nalbantoglu took over...Turkey threatened to kill Kuchuk and his supporters if they resisted,so they didn't...soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition...This is when my father,who was an honorable man,fell out with Denktash and Co and he was on their hitlist for a while...In fact Father was on the hitlist of EOKA as well,as they rightly suspected that he was the area commander in Paphos...But when the hitman finally arrived he was from the TMT,but by divine intervention,he turned out to be one of my father's former students...So instead of killing him he warned him of the danger,and I remember a time when we were on the move all the time to avoid a second hitman...
So dear, bigOz,I owe my exile to Australia to the TMT more than the EOKA...
This does not mean that TMT did nothing good for the TCs...or that all members were murderous thugs...But the leaders were,and they were kept in check somehow by the Turkish colonel in charge of TMT during the early 60s (Kemal Coskun code named Bayraktar,who was withdrawn to Turkey after the 67 events)...sorry to disappoint you,bigOz,but after more than 50 years of keeping silent about these things,I have earned the right to talk...It is upto you to believe me or not...But ask yourself,what motivation would I have to make all this up???All this information is in the public arena these days anyway...Read Arif Hasan Tahsin Hoca's column in Afrika and you will learn the truth about the TMT...warts and all...I want to stress the point that most underground organisations like TMT eventually end up serving the interests of those who control them,and not the general community interests...TMT was conrolled by Denktash locally and Turkey overseas,so it ended up serving their interests...In the process many good,honorable people who wanted to serve the interest of the TC people or the interests of all Cypriots were killed or sent into exile...I know you mean well,bigOz,and sorry once again if I woke you up from the dream imposed by Denktash and Co's propaganda machine...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus11396-10.html

Being selective with your truth again,GR!???
I also described how my father fell out with the TMT and left in 1963...And Father and I both left cyprus in 1969 long before the events of 1974...

Now you tell me what you think of the GCs stealing the RoC and going on to get rich on their ill-gained legitimacy at the expence of the TCs...???/
I am all ears...

[Get Real!]

Now you tell me what you think of the GCs stealing the RoC and going on to get rich on their ill-gained legitimacy at the expence of the TCs...???/
I am all ears...

How exactly did the Greek Cypriots "steal" the RoC if by your own admission…

“…soon TMT was acting like a terrorist organisation in guise as a selfdefence organisation,putting fear into their own people,and killing and bombing strategic targets to achieve their ultimate aim,Partition”

...so the TCs abandoned their posts due to the pressure you described by the TMT, in accordance with Turkey's request?

[Piratis]

for what they have done to us from 1958 until 2010 (and counting).

The GC's are so innocent in the 50's through to 1974, they didn't do a thing to the TC's. I wonder why 100's thousands migrated to London and Australia and other places, was it the intimidation, was it mass murders and wiping out of whole villages, was it being treated as second class citizens, was it the resulting unemployment and poverty and being forced into enclaves, or they just felt like migrating.

My friend, both sides have suffered, you only present the TC's as the big bad boys and the GC's as the innocent.

What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.

On the contrary, I accept the suffering of both sides. The Turks have committed crimes and oppressed the GCs for 359 years (and counting) and they killed several 10s of thousands of GCs, and the TCs suffered for about a decade and they had some 100s of casualties.

Where did you see me saying that only GCs suffered? I just state the truth as it is. The truth doesn't suit you but unfortunately you have no means to refute the truth I wrote above.

On the contrary you do not recognize the suffering of GCs since you claim that "What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace". Really? Is ethnic cleansing "peace"? If it is then another kind of peace is to send all TCs back to Turkey. If it is OK to ethnically cleanse close to 200.000 GCs, then why not do the same with about 120.000 TCs? And if it is OK to ethnically cleanse people whose roots are in Cyprus for 1000s of years, then it must be even easier to ethnically cleanse TCs who do not have as deep roots in Cyprus. And this "peace" would be even better, since we would be separated not just by some green line, but by several kilometers of sea.

So if you think that ethnic cleansing is a solution and brings peace then you should apply it on yourselves.


As far as the TCs who emigrated, the fact is that FAR MORE GCs emigrated. There are far more GCs than TCs in both Australia and London.

Between 1960 and 1974 both GCs and TCs were emigrating abroad at the same level.

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

[Piratis]

What has happened between 1974 and 2010 and beyond is peace, no fighting, no fear, even though economically the North has been worse off.

But it didn’t start out that way did it?

Immediately after the Turkish invasion, the Turkish Cypriots plundered all that the GC refugees had left behind including their homes, furniture, cash, cars, tractors, lorries, businesses, supermarkets, everything was looted! I’ll bet it must’ve felt like all your Christmases came at once eh?

The 185,000 GC refugees on the other hand, wasted in 4x3 wooden shacks for 15+ years before the war-bankrupt RoC could move them one by one to specially erected refugee housing communities that littered the unoccupied territory of Cyprus.

After a devastating start that lasted for some 20 years, the Greek Cypriot perseverance, resourcefulness, and business acumen gradually turned things around and today the RoC boasts an enviable economy and standard of living.

The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand, started out with enough loot to last them a lifetime… or so they thought, because there were enough abandoned GC properties for each Turkish Cypriot to have 4 houses, a couple of cars, 3-4 sets of furniture, and plenty of cash, gold, and other valuables found in ransacked homes, banks, and other buildings, so they just sat on their laurels like true Ottomans always do until the years went by and the loot was used up so they then turned to handouts from Turkey!

Stop your revisionist activities now,or you will go bllindddddddd!

You want to be one-sided GR! Lets go....
You wanted to gift Cyprus to Greece...You signed an agreement and went to work treacherously to undermine it before the ink was dry...You have attacked mercilessly and massacred he TCs at will,till you drove them into enclaves...Then you highjacked the Republic of Cyprus,and used all its means and official recognition to get rich on great TC expence! You never gave up on Enosis,and tried again in 74 to unite Cyprus with Greece by force of arms..Turkey performed the greatest peace operation on earth,and wiped your sorry arses...You want me to go on?? Now where will this get us???? You tell me,sunshine...

Well Bir, why talk one sided and untrue crap, when we can just say the truth?

1) Cypriots could democratically choose to unite their own island with whomever they want, Greece, EU or China (as long as those we unite with accept us too). When Cyprus united with EU did we "gift" Cyprus to EU? You really do try hard to make our rights sound bad, don't you?

The time that Cyprus would belong to whomever conquered it, and against the will of the Cypriot people, is over.

The UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

So integration into an independent State is just as legitimate as independence, and it should be up to the people of each territory being decolonized to democratically choose which legitimate option they prefer.

Unfortunately you think we still live in the era of the Ottomans where you could oppress the Cypriot people and determine where Cyprus should be long and where it shouldn't, against the will of the vast majority of the population.

2) The 1960 constitution was not a result of the free will of the Cypriot people but something imposed on us by foreign Imperialists. You helped those imperialists to deny to the Cypriot people their rights and as a reward those Imperialists granted to your minority privileges on the expense of every other Cypriot. You never had any right for those ill received gains.

3) The attacks and massacres against innocent people were started by the TCs against the GCs in 1958. On June 7th 1958 you burned houses and shops of innocent GCs in Nicosia, and on June 12 1958 you committed the first massacre against innocent and unarmed GCs.

I repeat that I recognize your suffering during the 60s. But you should also recognize your own wrong doings and crimes during the 50s and 60s, and stop pretending that you are the "innocent" victims who now have to be rewarded on the expense of the "evil" GCs by having some "Turkish State" on land stolen from us.

You definitely have no right to ethnically cleanse us and to create some "Turkish state" on land which had a vast majority of GCs for 1000s of years. The equivalent demand from us would be to demand your ethnic cleansing from Cyprus, and to be given your lands as a compensation for the crimes you committed against us. What would you think of GCs that have such demands? Think of it, and then you will understand what we think about you and the other partitionists.