Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

[denizaksulu]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

You have not read Birs past posts. He was so full of empathy, even I thought he was Greek. That got him nowhere, why? because he was a TC. What else? He admitted his father was in TMT. What happens next, 'His fathers sins were visited upon him'. As if he was to blame for all the evil doings in Cyprus. Poor Bir was in a lose - lose situation. He found out what the right wing were like and now, ..........

Life's a bitch , innit?

[B25]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

You have not read Birs past posts. He was so full of empathy, even I thought he was Greek. That got him nowhere, why? because he was a TC. What else? He admitted his father was in TMT. What happens next, 'His fathers sins were visited upon him'. As if he was to blame for all the evil doings in Cyprus. Poor Bir was in a lose - lose situation. He found out what the right wing were like and now, ..........

Life's a bitch , innit?

Deniz,

you mis-understood my post mate. I had a dig at Bir, because is last 20 posts or so have been directly saying that the GCs were causing all the hardships to the TCs WITHOUT an ounce of acknowledgement that his side had done any wrong. TC/Turks same stuff, its them against us, I don't to play with words here.

I made no mention of TMT, so don't know why you brought it up. If on a scale of 1 to 10 the suffering of the TCs was 3 then the suffering of the GCs was 10+. Please don't insult us about your sufferings whilst all the while you ignore ours, (not you personally you understand)

[BirKibrisli]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

I have written more than 3700 posts since I have been a member here...
3500 of them were full of empathy and compassion for my GC compatriots...You can go and look for yourself,B25... When you write 3500 posts empathising with the TCs you will earn the right to attack me the way you have done here...In fact it is people like you that made me realise I was only reinforcing your abhorently racist,prejudiced and bigoted attitude towards the TCs...Now I am giving you a bit of your own medicine and you do not like it...I have at least shown empathy and compassion for the victims of the horrible rapes...Can you show me where you have done the same for the TCs massacred in those 3 villages in 1974??? It is very easy,my friend ,to show empathy and compassion for your own side...Now start writing your posts full of empathy and compassion for the murdered TCs,women and children included...you have to write 3500 of them to catch up with me...If you don't, crawl back under the rock you climbed out of,and do not poison the air for the rest of humanity,you miserable,vile excuse of a man...

[B25]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

I have written more than 3700 posts since I have been a member here...
3500 of them were full of empathy and compassion for my GC compatriots...You can go and look for yourself,B25... When you write 3500 posts empathising with the TCs you will earn the right to attack me the way you have done here...In fact it is people like you that made me realise I was only reinforcing your abhorently racist,prejudiced and bigoted attitude towards the TCs...Now I am giving you a bit of your own medicine and you do not like it...I have at least shown empathy and compassion for the victims of the horrible rapes...Can you show me where you have done the same for the TCs massacred in those 3 villages in 1974??? It is very easy,my friend ,to show empathy and compassion for your own side...Now start writing your posts full of empathy and compassion for the murdered TCs,women and children included...you have to write 3500 of them to catch up with me...If you don't, crawl back under the rock you climbed out of,and do not poison the air for the rest of humanity,you miserable,vile excuse of a man...

3700 post of telling us how we wronged you and how you have been the victims all the while you have been angels!

I don't need to write 3700 posts to show anything (and you have not shown anything other than we should all bow to the TCs). Give us a break, you charms work no wonders here. You need to be reading the postings you cronies are making and then tell me about empathy and compassion, death threats, threats of violence, disgusting verbal abuse to female members which I gues is OK by you, because I never see you coming in cand countering these. please don't play angel with me, I know your sort, I have told you before as as for you comments about me, stick them mate, it is people like you that give us this problem.

[Kikapu]

I posted the below article on the "International News on Cyprus" thread several days ago, but I think it belong here also, because each side is expecting too much from the other side under today's conditions on empathy and understanding of past events. Everyone has their own story to tell about their own sufferings and each one wants everyone to hear their own stories and sufferings. Until the "war" is over, it will stay that way, because the one who is telling their own sufferings is what is most important to them and not the suffering of others. Once the "war" is over, then begins the understanding of others sufferings, so lets bring the "war" to an end soon, because we have all the time in the world to tell sufferings to the other in the future who will be ready to listen, because we would have also heard of their sufferings also at the same time.....


Cyprus and 'Chosen Trauma'

"Published: October 20, 2009

By H. D. S. GREENWAY

“Chosen trauma,” were the words the political psychiatrist Vamik Volkan used to described the way nations, as well as individuals, can seize upon a wrong done to them to the exclusion of any wrongs committed by themselves.

I was reminded of that the other day when the International Crisis Group, which monitors impending troubles around the globe, reported that “negotiating Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders must join forces and embrace a collaborative, federal reunification of the island in the next few months, or see their efforts overtaken by the unstoppable dynamic of a hostile partition.”

Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders may be trying, but a glance at the official propaganda of the two sides reveals how immersed they are in their respective chosen traumas.

As Volkan, a Turkish Cypriot himself, wrote, all the Greek majority ever wants to talk about are the sins of the Turkish occupation, while the Turkish minority is obsessed with how their people were rounded up and put to death by the Greeks before Turkey intervened.

Cyprus emerged as an independent nation in 1960, with minority rights to be guaranteed by Britain, Greece and Turkey, to the disappointment of many Greek Cypriots who fought under the banner of “enosis,” or union with Greece.

Communal strife ensued, with the Turkish minority getting the worst of it. A U.N. peacekeeping force was sent to the island in 1964, but Greek Cypriot nationalists launched a coup instigated by army officers from mainland Greece in July 1974. Five days later, Turkey invaded and took over 37 percent of the island in the name of protecting the Turkish minority.

The island has been partitioned ever since. The Turkish minority voted to set up the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is recognized by no country except Turkey.

Recently, before Cyprus joined the European Union, the Turkish minority voted for reunification under a plan put forth by Kofi Annan, but the Greek majority rejected it.

Even those bare facts are open to interpretation through the lenses of trauma. If you read the literature put forth by the Cypriot Embassy in Washington you will learn all about the “continued illegal military occupation of Cyprus, how Turkey has ignored a series of U.N. resolutions condemning the invasion, and how Turkey has yet to abide by judgments of the European Court of Human Rights for violating the fundamental rights of the Cypriots such as the right to life, liberty, security and the right to the protection of property and the prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment ...”

You will also learn about the 43,000 Turkish occupation troops in northern Cyprus, and how Greeks were pushed out of their homes.

You will learn how Turkey has brought in 160,000 settlers from rural Anatolia, in violation of Geneva Conventions concerning occupied territories.

There is no mention of why Turkey thought it necessary to intervene to protect Turkish Cypriots from being massacred, or of the coup that overthrew the existing order.

Turn to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Web site, and you will learn how Greek Cypriots were unhappy with the equality given the Turkish minority upon independence, and how Greek Cypriots worked to undermine those rights from the beginning.

You will learn how “the Greeks decided to take matters into their own hands and settle their arguments by force.” You will learn how a “decade of violence” ensued, with “25,000 Turkish Cypriots having to flee their homes.”

You will learn how 20,000 troops from Greece entered Cyprus illegally, and how, with enosis right around the corner, Turkey was forced to intervene. You will learn of the unfairness of the world not accepting Northern Cyprus.

I could find nothing about Turkish settlers being brought in to alter the demographic balance, or anything about U.N. resolutions, or courts of human rights.

Yet there is hope in the lure of the European Union for both Northern Cyprus and Turkey itself. If Armenia, with its own chosen trauma of Armenian massacres, can patch it up with Turkey, can a solution for Cyprus be far behind? "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/opini ... .html?_r=1

[BirKibrisli]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

I have written more than 3700 posts since I have been a member here...
3500 of them were full of empathy and compassion for my GC compatriots...You can go and look for yourself,B25... When you write 3500 posts empathising with the TCs you will earn the right to attack me the way you have done here...In fact it is people like you that made me realise I was only reinforcing your abhorently racist,prejudiced and bigoted attitude towards the TCs...Now I am giving you a bit of your own medicine and you do not like it...I have at least shown empathy and compassion for the victims of the horrible rapes...Can you show me where you have done the same for the TCs massacred in those 3 villages in 1974??? It is very easy,my friend ,to show empathy and compassion for your own side...Now start writing your posts full of empathy and compassion for the murdered TCs,women and children included...you have to write 3500 of them to catch up with me...If you don't, crawl back under the rock you climbed out of,and do not poison the air for the rest of humanity,you miserable,vile excuse of a man...

3700 post of telling us how we wronged you and how you have been the victims all the while you have been angels!

I don't need to write 3700 posts to show anything (and you have not shown anything other than we should all bow to the TCs). Give us a break, you charms work no wonders here. You need to be reading the postings you cronies are making and then tell me about empathy and compassion, death threats, threats of violence, disgusting verbal abuse to female members which I gues is OK by you, because I never see you coming in cand countering these. please don't play angel with me, I know your sort, I have told you before as as for you comments about me, stick them mate, it is people like you that give us this problem.

I dare you to go and read my first 3500 posts...Do not come back to me until you do....Or I will tell you exactly where to go,in your own language....This is my one and only warning...

[Kikapu]

Hi,Kikapu...I already said my goodbyes to this thread but i cannot let your post go unanswered...You have put a lot of effort into writing it,and I have no doubt you sincerely believe in what you say...

Let me say this from the start...I am the same person who for years came here and advocated a Unitary state solution based entirely on one vote one value system,and without any ethnic considerations or affirmative actions...I am also the same person who believes that the best way out of this situation is to assert our Cypriotness and push our ethnicity in the background...It makes sense to me to focus on our similarities than our diffrences...Any solution that will highlight our ethnicities will only work to cement the old bittreness and resentment...That is still my belief....However...It takes 2 to tango...I have realised that neither side are ready and able to dance to my or your tunes...I will tell you why...The TCs are not ready and able (and I am talking about those in the dispora as well) for the same reason that a trauma patient would not be able to return to the scene of his/her pain and suffering or be able to face his/her abuser without an intensive therapy and rehabilitation process...Now sometimes this therapy might include taking the patient back to the scene or make her confront her abuser,but that would have to be done under strict guidelines and precautions...In Cyprus this has not taken place...We have wasted precious time in denials and acusations and counter accusations,only to make healing almost impossible...On the other hand the GCs are not ready and able because they have been brainwashed from the beginning by their education and their Church...Enosis was their legitimate right,they believed,and when that was frustrated the TCs became the butt of their bitterness and resentment ..In GC eyes we became a despised minority who always reminded them of the Ottoman times,towards whom they could target their feelings or anger,vengence and hatred...I do not have any doubts that this Forum reflects the reality in the streets of Cyprus...Now,I am NOT saying that the TCs have not been equally brainwashed...I am not saying they are not harbouring similar feelings towards the GCs...I believe they do...So when you have 2 sides with so much physical and emotional baggage,who have no trust,respect or understanding for each other,you cannot expect them to get together and live in harmony,no matter how noble and desirable you or I think that might be...

Just look at the treatment we get here in this Forum...There are notable exceptions I know,and I am sorry I cannot say much to comfort our dear,decent GC compatriots... Unfortunately they find themselves as good apples in a basket of rotten ones and they cannot help the situation any more than you and I can...Day in day out we are told we are Ottoman remnants,unwelcomed guests,neo-imperialists,neo-colonialists,thieves,rapists and murderers...Not to mention more mild insults like liars,idiots,degenerates,and as one famously calls us "Turks" as if that is the biggest insult you could bestow on anyone...

Our pain and suffering is minimised,excused,justified,and most often totally denied...And when we talk about our personal trauma we are ridiculed,and accused of bringing everything upon ourselves as we are tools for Turkey's territorial ambitions...We are not really Cypriots but Turks who are somehow less patriotic or disloyal to our country,because we refused to let them present our motherland to Greece on a plate...

The best solution I can advocate now is a BBF with a "mild" Federal system,as an interim solution...Lets have as much democracy and EU principles as we can accomodate,and lets make sure neither Constituent State can unilaterally cecede from the Federated entity,and make sure as much land as possible changes hands to satisfy the right of return of as many refugees as possible,but let us also have some guarantees which will make the TCs sleep better at night in their own homes... A formula can be found perhaps where all the Turkish soldiers leave the island but the protection and the guarantees remain for some time,till we have the opportunity to build mutual understanding and trust...

I did not move lightly to this position,dear Kikapu,and I know it is very difficult to argue logically or intellectually with your democracy and human rights push...I know my arguments are mostly emotional,but they make sense to me...And they obviously make a lot of sense to the TCs...I am also aware that we have alternative lives now,and we do not live in Cyprus and need never return...We can be as ideological as the sky,and the solution need not affect us in the least...But when I come here and witness the denials,the insults and the abuse,and listen to those members of my family who still live in Cyprus tell me they couldn't possibly return to the bad old days when it was almost a crime to be a TC,I have no other choice but to sympathise...

Hello Bir,

Listen my friend, I can't argue with most of what you wrote above and Cypriots have been wasting time for the last 45+ years to find a solution, but unfortunately, some did not want a solution, so here we are. In order to get the parties together to begin a new start is to agree on a Fair & Just solution as well as guaranteeing everyone’s safety concerns. It's really not that difficult once the players agree to it if they had the TCs and GCs best interests in mind. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for a very long time and until they do, we will remain as we are.

I told you that for the GCs, the 74 war still goes on, because that was the last major event in chain of events that has burdened the island and it's people. As a result, they will see the north in a very negative light and all those living there or supporting the north. It is the nature of the beast, and until the war ends, it will continue as such, much to the dislikes of those who do not support the ongoing war and it’s sufferings, but want peace instead.

Bir, I know who you were then and who you are now. It is the same person, but a person who has a very heavy load on his mind and I think I know what it is. Let me just tell you my friend, I understand your situation.!

[Pyrpolizer]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

Would you please STOP this insulting language to my FRIEND?
You were not here long enough to make a fair judgement on Bir.
Ask others who know him, even Piratis knows him better than you.

There's only one word coming to my mouth to describe you, I will not say it now, rather give you a chance o reconsider
Just come up to your senses and take off whatever bad feelings you have on real issues not on PERSONS who btw are far beyond of what you think of them.

[Pyrpolizer]

Here's a relevant youtube video regarding the rapes. Very hard to find documentary evidence for the reasons i said before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPcUrNfRDI

Bir are you listening, oh Bir you MF.

So much for the hardships we caused you and your lot, but you deny any wrong doings on your part a?

Compassion, Empathy, stick them up your arse mate, go thell them to these young girls that were being raped by NATOs best.

F cheek.

hade reh gamisou.

I have written more than 3700 posts since I have been a member here...
3500 of them were full of empathy and compassion for my GC compatriots...You can go and look for yourself,B25... When you write 3500 posts empathising with the TCs you will earn the right to attack me the way you have done here...In fact it is people like you that made me realise I was only reinforcing your abhorently racist,prejudiced and bigoted attitude towards the TCs...Now I am giving you a bit of your own medicine and you do not like it...I have at least shown empathy and compassion for the victims of the horrible rapes...Can you show me where you have done the same for the TCs massacred in those 3 villages in 1974??? It is very easy,my friend ,to show empathy and compassion for your own side...Now start writing your posts full of empathy and compassion for the murdered TCs,women and children included...you have to write 3500 of them to catch up with me...If you don't, crawl back under the rock you climbed out of,and do not poison the air for the rest of humanity,you miserable,vile excuse of a man...

3700 post of telling us how we wronged you and how you have been the victims all the while you have been angels!

I don't need to write 3700 posts to show anything (and you have not shown anything other than we should all bow to the TCs). Give us a break, you charms work no wonders here. You need to be reading the postings you cronies are making and then tell me about empathy and compassion, death threats, threats of violence, disgusting verbal abuse to female members which I gues is OK by you, because I never see you coming in cand countering these. please don't play angel with me, I know your sort, I have told you before as as for you comments about me, stick them mate, it is people like you that give us this problem.

What are you talking about man????

Bir is not the person you think he is. He lately just became a bit of monolithic and he explained the reasons why. It's because this is the only way for some people to understand.
But even so EVERYBODY who knows him realises he is the same person, no problem man, beleive me.Give Bir the respect he deserves.

I have to defend this person, you are TOTALLY WRONG on him, chose someone else to attack. Take my advice and you will remember me.

Man you wrote almost 600 posts haven't you yet realised who is who among the participants?