Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Bir,

I wont bother making a full response to your post because you have completely missed the point of what I am trying to say. Another 'close 'minded' GC I am not. Read properly what I have said. I know full well what the TC's went through as well as the GC's. There is no point comparing who did what to whome 35 or 45 years ago because that road leads to KNOWHERE and that is my point.

I look forward to a united Cyprus where both communities work together to build a common future. It seems you are not ready to do this which is a big shame.

[aussieturk]

As I have shown many time [b]no TC was killed in 1974 before the invasion.[/b] All TCs that were killed in that year, were killed during the war that Turkey and TCs started against us.

That is utter crap

[Piratis]

As I have shown many time [b]no TC was killed in 1974 before the invasion.[/b] All TCs that were killed in that year, were killed during the war that Turkey and TCs started against us.

That is utter crap

Because that is what the Turkish propaganda taught you?

I challenge you to show me even a single incident where TCs were killed during the 5 days of the coup or at any other time in 1974 before 20th of July when you attacked us and started killing GCs by the 1000s.

So, can you back up your claims? Just because you swallow the lies of the Turkish propaganda it doesn't mean anybody else should too. You have to talk with specific facts and dates, just as I have done.

[GreekForumer]

aussieturk,
here is a document with a listing of missing TCs. http://www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf

Importantly, it has the "last seen" dates in it.

This is my count.
35 TCs went missing 20th July 1974. (Alaminos, Petrofani, Boghazi, Angolemi + others)
210 TCs went missing 14th August 1974 (Aloa, Maratha, Tokhni )

17 TCs went missing between those dates.

This suggests the Aloa, Maratha, Tokhni massacres of TCs started 14th August, the day of Atilla II.

According to the document, no TC went missing between the 15th and 19th of July, inclusive. (someone please check!)

As for TCs who were not missing but found dead, the Turkish martyr websites never disclose the dates of death. The absence of this crucially important information hinders the debate.

[boomerang]

bir you really need a greek to tell you this?...pres x acknowledged this already...the question is bir where is talat?

No,I don't need a Greek to tell me this...But you and most of the GCs here do...You will dismiss anything and everything as lies and exaggerations if it comes from Turkish sources..Even people's personal experiences are brushed aside...

Talat is where he always is...Dangling at the end of Turkey's puppet strings...Don't expect too much from him...I feel sorry for him in fact,he is a decent man trying to do an impossible job...I wouldn't be surprised if he does not even run in the Presidential elections in April...

...your drama queen antics ain't gonna wash me mate...

this what i say and i fully stand behind...

let me say this...you will never fiind out about the truth...it has to come within...every report is a one way stream...the truth and the re-writing of events will only come from a reconciliation committee and for that to happen you need democracy, human rights and the rule of law...ensuring justice for all...

but again, a fascist doesn't know what he is talking about, hey bir?....

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=546098

what the above says and you fail to see is, the difference between my views and your views is you are looking at the tree while i am looking at the forrest...got it?

and don't give me lip...it worked for south africa and a number of other countries...

regarding balless talat...you want a solution with a band aid while the wound needs stitching....this will lead to amputation...

if talat had any balls he should resign in disgust and tell the world why...then i would also feel for him...but as it stands he is a ballless wonder putting other interests infront rather the ones of his own people...hey bir no pain no gain...

but that's alright keep making excuses and then whine at people not unifying, while one day you and i will be reading about a group of people that USED to reside in cyprus...

but that's ok...in your eyes i am a fascist......

oh nice to see you quoting what i say by the way...

ps...in the mean time keep on supporting the fascist regime...you are doing a huge service to your community...

What are you on, boomers...I wouldn't mind some of that...
You are all over the place...I will make it simple for you to concentrate:

1. Which part of my question above you considered to be "drama queen antics"?

2.You are not looking at the forest,don't kid yourself...You have turned your back on it,and you are looking at the GC nationalist propaganda writing in the sky...Why,you probably think Piratis is right in everything he says,right???

3...You might not be a fascist,but you use their tactics to silence your opponents...There is one truth for you,and anybody who disagrees have to be silenced by insults and intimidation...Sorry,but those are fascist tactics,mate..

4.I have been talking about the need for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for years now...Why hasn't the legitimate,recognised governemnt of the RoC established such a commission in all these years? What are they afraid of?

5...Talat is doing his best in impossible conditions,give him some slack...

Now try to respond to these one by one and in that order please...Then I will know what you are on...

your pityfull reply points to me your brain lacks concetration so i decided to take it one step at the time and not bombard you with a lot, blowing your brain to smithereens...your inability to see the point of what is debated is unbelievable...mickie said the same thing btw...

Here you go bir short and sweet…lets have a starting point and then we can progress further…lets see if your brain is capable of digesting this first, prior to continuing...

let me say this...you will never fiind out about the truth...it has to come within...every report is a one way stream...the truth and the re-writing of events will only come from a reconciliation committee and for that to happen you need democracy, human rights and the rule of law...ensuring justice for all...

as recent events have shown with the quietness of ballesss talat, what is the point of having a reconciliation truth commission if the other partner is boycotting the affair or staying silent… you will only label it as propaganda…I would have thought this would have been obvious to you as it is to a 5 year old…but hey here we are me explaining the obvious to you...

as far as fascism any method of combat is suitable shutting up the bastards...if we stay quit then we are all guilty by association...i would have thought you would digested this point as history has shown, but again i felt the need to explain it to you yet again...

but that's alright keep making excuses and then whine at people not unifying on turkey's terms, and the day will come, fast approaching actually, you and i will be reading about a group of people that USED to reside in cyprus...the free areas lost what they lost the last 35 odd years...the occupied will be lost for ever...and your excuses are, accept their fears first, meaning accept the conditions turkey is putting up so the whole of the island gets fucked up or else...or else exactly what bir?...fucking hell...

lets see your agreement to the point in bold and quoted above so we can progress...

[Piratis]

Mikki,read carefully what I said...I am talking about the period we were supposed to be partners in a Republic... This is the crucial time,this is what led to everything else inludung the 1974 events

This is where you go wrong Bir. What happened in the 60s didn't happen out of the blue. History is a chain of events, and nothing happens in the vacuum.

As I have shown and provided a ton of evidence, the inter-communal conflict didn't start in the 60s but in the 50s. It was started by the TCs who collaborated with the foreign Imperialists and attacked us. The first burning of homes and shops and the first massacres of innocents were commited by TCs against GCs in 1958.

You were NOT supposed to be "partners in a Republic". You were supposed to be equal citizens, part of an ethnic minority, just like the Muslims/Turks of Greece or Bulgaria, the Greeks in Turkey, or any other minority in any other country. Why should you be "partners" and those others should not? Whats is so special about your tiny community?

All those privileges you extracted on our expense with the 1960 agreements were not fair or what you were supposed to have, but a result of brute force and blackmail. In the 50s you started the inter-communal conflict and people were dying in their 100s, and you (along with Britain and Turkey) were threatening us that if we do not surrender to your demands you will annihilate the whole GC population from half of Cyprus and force partition.

These are the malicious tactics you used against us in order to gain all those privileges and power on our expense, and not because such power and privileges are supposed to be given to an 18% minority.

In 1963 Makarios proposed changes that would make the constitution more fair and democratic. Even after those changes your minority would still have more power and privileges than any other minority in any other country.

But you showed no desire to even negotiate those proposals since you wanted to maintain the 100% of all your ill received gains on our expense. Instead of that you withdrew from the government and you restarted the conflict.

Apparently your plan was to create a conflict so that Turkey could come and "save" you by applying your partition plan (which existed since the 50s). However Lyndon Johnson, the US president, prevented a Turkish invasion in June 1964, and you got yourselves in a conflict which was longer than you initially planned.

And yes, in that conflict you suffered and you had casualties. Nobody denies this. But you were also armed by Turkey and Turkish officers were in Cyprus helping you to harm us. 100s of GCs died too during that conflict, and you had even ethnically cleansed the Armenian Cypriots from their sector in Nicosia!

Today you continue in the same way. You continue collaborating with foreign Imperialists and you blackmail us by keeping half of our island as a hostage trying to extract even more gains on our expense. Or maybe you are going to tell me that your demands are fair and that the TCs are "Supposed to rule north Cyprus"? No mate. Don't confuse what you have the right for, with the ill received gains on our expense. You are NOT supposed to rule over territory which has been inhabited for 1000s of years by a vast majority of GCs. You have no right to legalize the ethnic cleansing against us. So even if your blackmail works, and you force us to accept your terms, this will not be the solution but only part of the problem, just like the 1960 agreements.

[Tim Drayton]

[...]
4.I have been talking about the need for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for years now...Why hasn't the legitimate,recognised governemnt of the RoC established such a commission in all these years? What are they afraid of?
[...]

I can't help feeling that you are putting the horse before the cart. As I see it there has to be a political settlement first before there can be a truth and reconciliation process. Certainly if we are making an analogy with South Africa, that is how it worked there.

[boomerang]

[...]
4.I have been talking about the need for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for years now...Why hasn't the legitimate,recognised governemnt of the RoC established such a commission in all these years? What are they afraid of?
[...]

I can't help feeling that you are putting the horse before the cart. As I see it there has to be a political settlement first before there can be a truth and reconciliation process. Certainly if we are making an analogy with South Africa, that is how it worked there.

ofcourse tim...how esle will it work....and for that to happen you need
1...independence - no turkey meddling
2...democracy
3...human rights adoptation
4...application rule of law

but bir wants the feasable where turkey has control of everything via the tcs in a possible unification...

the ony way turkey will agree to a solution is for plan similar to the annan plan...she, turkey, continues to talk about it at every chance on her own and through her puppets, even though the plan in null and void...nearly 6 years after the event...what does that tell every one...

turkey would rather have things like they are and keep washing the shores with settlers till one day she uses them for her own needs...turkey will not satisfiy her self with partition or annexation coz she will lose, lost anyway, the zurich agreement...

turkey will not even let anyone in the north sue the roc for any mis doings...why?...coz she would have to come clean with her own part...

can't get through to bir...he keeps on humming about the tc this and tc that...

what i do see happening in the future the tcs will one have enough, move to the free areas and accept a unitary state, something they object to today...what a waste of time and energy, coz they have no balls to stand for their own rights today and rather subject themselves to the whims of turkey signing their own death warrant...

talat is a balless wonder...if he had any balls he would resign for the good of his people and tell the world as to why he resigned...

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

I wont bother making a full response to your post because you have completely missed the point of what I am trying to say. Another 'close 'minded' GC I am not. Read properly what I have said. I know full well what the TC's went through as well as the GC's. There is no point comparing who did what to whome 35 or 45 years ago because that road leads to KNOWHERE and that is my point.

I look forward to a united Cyprus where both communities work together to build a common future. It seems you are not ready to do this which is a big shame.

I am not ready to do this??? Mikkie...Wishing for a united Cyprus is not going to happen...I am telling you what needs to be done...We need to build trust and understanding,and that will not happen if we keep insulting each other,and denying our sides wrong doings...I wish people would just trust each other blindly,but that is not a realistic expectation..There are people here who tell us we shouldn't even be on the island,as we were not invited...And you are upset I am suggesting we should deal with the 50s and 60s first...? 50 years is nothing in history mikkie...Both communities have been conditioned to hate each other...Both sides think the other is evil,and all their fault...It is this realisation which made me reconsider what is and is not possible as a solution now...We wasted nearly 50 years with denials and counter denials,accusations and counter accusations....Why hasn't the legitimate RoC government established a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in all this time? Why has there been no action,on both sides,to find those responsible for the attrocities and punish them? So that the families of the missing and the dead can ahve closure and move on with their lives...We can't keep sweeping eveything under the carpet...I am ready to live in a United Cyprus tomorrow,Mikkie...Tell President X to invite all the TCs to return to their rightful place in the Republic and I will be there before you say "democracy,human rights and the EU principles"... We have one agreement already signed,when will we realise it is the best deal both communities will ever get...???

[Piratis]

Bir,

I wont bother making a full response to your post because you have completely missed the point of what I am trying to say. Another 'close 'minded' GC I am not. Read properly what I have said. I know full well what the TC's went through as well as the GC's. There is no point comparing who did what to whome 35 or 45 years ago because that road leads to KNOWHERE and that is my point.

I look forward to a united Cyprus where both communities work together to build a common future. It seems you are not ready to do this which is a big shame.

I am not ready to do this??? Mikkie...Wishing for a united Cyprus is not going to happen...I am telling you what needs to be done...We need to build trust and understanding,and that will not happen if we keep insulting each other,and denying our sides wrong doings...I wish people would just trust each other blindly,but that is not a realistic expectation..There are people here who tell us we shouldn't even be on the island,as we were not invited...And you are upset I am suggesting we should deal with the 50s and 60s first...? 50 years is nothing in history mikkie...Both communities have been conditioned to hate each other...Both sides think the other is evil,and all their fault...It is this realisation which made me reconsider what is and is not possible as a solution now...We wasted nearly 50 years with denials and counter denials,accusations and counter accusations....Why hasn't the legitimate RoC government established a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in all this time? Why has there been no action,on both sides,to find those responsible for the attrocities and punish them? So that the families of the missing and the dead can ahve closure and move on with their lives...We can't keep sweeping eveything under the carpet...I am ready to live in a United Cyprus tomorrow,Mikkie...Tell President X to invite all the TCs to return to their rightful place in the Republic and I will be there before you say "democracy,human rights and the EU principles"... We have one agreement already signed,when will we realise it is the best deal both communities will ever get...???

For a long time the Turkish side has been denying that there are any missing, and they were even denying that there was a Cyprus Problem, claiming that it was solved in 1974.

Christofias has already condemned all the crimes against TCs, and the only reason he doesn't "invite all the TCs to return to their rightful place in the Republic" is that it is more than obvious that the TCs demand a LOT more than that. On the contrary the TCs continue to celebrate their crimes against us!

We have made a lot of steps and none of them was reciprocated. There is only so many steps one side can do on its own.

It is obvious that the Turkish side does not want reconciliation. They worked hard in order to create hate between the two communities in order to excuse their plan for partition (which was created before any inter-communal conflict), and they obviously do not want to do anything that could remove from them this excuse.