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The Cyprus Problem for Dummies .....

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby denizaksulu » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:51 am

Piratis wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.



Its funny that whenever you are challenged, you will refer to 'Human Rights'. Where were you during the years 1963 - 1974 Piratis.

I am aware of the 'Invasion' ethnic cleansing and the misuse of GC properties in the south and I condemn this. However the actions of and the responses on this forum so far does not give me the impression that YOU are much bothered with the wellbeing of TC on this, our beautiful island. You not only want to punish us, you want to choke us to death. If not to death, you know your actions are gradually reducing the TC population by forcing them out of Cyprus. God help you when the New Settlers begin to beat their drums. You need to get your act together before its too late.


You were the one who was challenged and avoided answering. I asked you to tell me which of your human rights would union with Greece violate. Where is your answer to that?

63 didn't happen out of the blue. In 1958 you attacked us starting the conflict, collaborated with the colonialists and forced on us the 1960 agreements that benefited yourselves and your imperialist friends on our expense. In 1963 Makarios proposed changes to that foreign imposed constitution that would make the system of Cyprus more fair and democratic. But instead of even discussing the proposals you choose to insist on the unfair privileges granted to you by the Imperialists.

I was not alive in 63, but if I was I would support the same things that I support now. Human rights, democracy (one person one vote) and no discrimination based on ethnicity. These are the things that you ALWAYS rejected, and the reason why we have conflicts and wars.

The TC population is reduced by your actions, not mine. Rhodes island, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1948. Since then the population of the Turkish minority has increased by 20%. This fact alone refutes your baseless claims that union with Greece was a threat for your minority.

Nothing of what I support threatens the lives or the human rights of TCs. It only threatens the unfairly acquired land and privileges you gained on our expense by collaborating with foreign Imperialists.



Rhodes Island. Yes, I remember posting an article about Rhodes Islan last year. About a coffee shop owner, who complained of the closure of Turkish schools for a variety of reasons. eg: the reduction of the Turkish population as they were boycotted, the refusal to open up schools for those few that were left. Boycotting of his coffee house because he was a Turk. Sometimes visited by tourists because of the Ottoman decor. You know the facts Piratis you know how the Greek mindset works..
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Postby boomerang » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:03 pm

I can see how all other countries with ottoman remnants, and I say remnants coz the ottomans represented a lot of cultures not just turks, were mistrustful and vengeful after a such a long rule...

but in cyprus it was diffrent...we both lived together as one...the aim should have been liberation...

the english for personal gains, after co-existence for such a longh time, divided and ruled...

the demand from the start should have been for liberation by everyone...the problem was we were too dumb to realise it and still today we are playing the greek and turk drums...still divided and ruled...atleast our ancestors were dumb, but what's our excuse today?... :cry:
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Postby -mikkie2- » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:04 pm

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... C11904.pdf

Although I don't know the situation in Rhodes first hand, the above seems to imply that the Turkish minorities in Kos and Rhodes are being marginilised. This of course is unacceptable.

What is interesting in the above document, and our TC's friends please take note, it has been co-signed by a Greek Cypriot MEP.
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Postby boomerang » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:10 pm

i always wondered if we copt a fair constitution how things would have panned out?...after such a long time of co-existence both under a different ruler the situation was incomparable with other countries with ottoman remnants...

we had a system in place unlike other countries...
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:15 pm

boomerang wrote:i always wondered if we copt a fair constitution how things would have panned out?...after such a long time of co-existence both under a different ruler the situation was incomparable with other countries with ottoman remnants...

we had a system in place unlike other countries...



The problem is, how to neutralise the power the extreme right yield. Is the damage done reversible/irreverable? The trouble is if what we see here is anything to go by, it is very much active - and they are winning. :twisted:
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Postby boomerang » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:18 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
boomerang wrote:i always wondered if we copt a fair constitution how things would have panned out?...after such a long time of co-existence both under a different ruler the situation was incomparable with other countries with ottoman remnants...

we had a system in place unlike other countries...



The problem is, how to neutralise the power the extreme right yield. Is the damage done reversible/irreverable? The trouble is if what we see here is anything to go by, it is very much active - and they are winning. :twisted:


they were winning in SA in reverse Deniz...but at the end of the day, democracy, human rights and the rule of law prevailed...you can run but you cannot hide...lets hope that day day comes quickly...

fiji is going about it the wrong way but slowly they are coming about...the indins had no rights what so ever...not even land ownership...a few coups every time they got something and still today same shit, but againthey won't be running anywhere far, time are changing...thats for sure

australia, new zealand, etc...we are paying for others sins to make things right...and guess what...it has worked...USA a black president, who would have thought?
Last edited by boomerang on Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:21 pm

Piratis wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.



Its funny that whenever you are challenged, you will refer to 'Human Rights'. Where were you during the years 1963 - 1974 Piratis.

I am aware of the 'Invasion' ethnic cleansing and the misuse of GC properties in the south and I condemn this. However the actions of and the responses on this forum so far does not give me the impression that YOU are much bothered with the wellbeing of TC on this, our beautiful island. You not only want to punish us, you want to choke us to death. If not to death, you know your actions are gradually reducing the TC population by forcing them out of Cyprus. God help you when the New Settlers begin to beat their drums. You need to get your act together before its too late.


You were the one who was challenged and avoided answering. I asked you to tell me which of your human rights would union with Greece violate. Where is your answer to that?

63 didn't happen out of the blue. In 1958 you attacked us starting the conflict, collaborated with the colonialists and forced on us the 1960 agreements that benefited yourselves and your imperialist friends on our expense. In 1963 Makarios proposed changes to that foreign imposed constitution that would make the system of Cyprus more fair and democratic. But instead of even discussing the proposals you choose to insist on the unfair privileges granted to you by the Imperialists.

I was not alive in 63, but if I was I would support the same things that I support now. Human rights, democracy (one person one vote) and no discrimination based on ethnicity. These are the things that you ALWAYS rejected, and the reason why we have conflicts and wars.

The TC population is reduced by your actions, not mine. Rhodes island, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1948. Since then the population of the Turkish minority has increased by 20%. This fact alone refutes your baseless claims that union with Greece was a threat for your minority.

Nothing of what I support threatens the lives or the human rights of TCs. It only threatens the unfairly acquired land and privileges you gained on our expense by collaborating with foreign Imperialists.


Piratis,
Your posts do not deserve a reply,since you keep repeating the GC nationalist line without any thought . But I will tell you one human right which the TCs would have lost had Enosis with Greece became a reality at the end of the 50s...The greatest ONE of them all.... OUR RIGHT TO LIFE ...Please don't try to deny it,I am not listening any more to your drivel.... :evil:
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Postby boomerang » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:26 pm

that you cannot be sure...if every gc wanted you out and they were a greater majority you wouldn't have had a hope in hell...even during british rule...

the problem from the start of british rule was divide and rule...how many times the british went back on their word allowing enosis if we did this and that?...

the constitution and the lead up to it was wrong...it brought out resentment which no one could put away in in 3 years...
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Postby Piratis » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:32 pm

The talk in the motion is about minority rights, not human rights. It also says "This motion has not been discussed in the Assembly and commits only the members who have signed it".

The Turks have annihilated the Greeks from Imbros, Tenedos and the coast of Asia Minor. They have also done the same in north Cyprus. The Greeks are only forced to try to stop this Turkish expansionism against Greek islands and territories, by trying to contain the Turkish nationalism. Still, no human rights of the Turks are violated.

Regarding the schools in Rhodes, some of them were closed in 1972 in retaliation for the closure of Halki seminary in Constantinople by the Turkish government in 1971.
Last edited by Piratis on Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:42 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.



Its funny that whenever you are challenged, you will refer to 'Human Rights'. Where were you during the years 1963 - 1974 Piratis.

I am aware of the 'Invasion' ethnic cleansing and the misuse of GC properties in the south and I condemn this. However the actions of and the responses on this forum so far does not give me the impression that YOU are much bothered with the wellbeing of TC on this, our beautiful island. You not only want to punish us, you want to choke us to death. If not to death, you know your actions are gradually reducing the TC population by forcing them out of Cyprus. God help you when the New Settlers begin to beat their drums. You need to get your act together before its too late.


You were the one who was challenged and avoided answering. I asked you to tell me which of your human rights would union with Greece violate. Where is your answer to that?

63 didn't happen out of the blue. In 1958 you attacked us starting the conflict, collaborated with the colonialists and forced on us the 1960 agreements that benefited yourselves and your imperialist friends on our expense. In 1963 Makarios proposed changes to that foreign imposed constitution that would make the system of Cyprus more fair and democratic. But instead of even discussing the proposals you choose to insist on the unfair privileges granted to you by the Imperialists.

I was not alive in 63, but if I was I would support the same things that I support now. Human rights, democracy (one person one vote) and no discrimination based on ethnicity. These are the things that you ALWAYS rejected, and the reason why we have conflicts and wars.

The TC population is reduced by your actions, not mine. Rhodes island, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1948. Since then the population of the Turkish minority has increased by 20%. This fact alone refutes your baseless claims that union with Greece was a threat for your minority.

Nothing of what I support threatens the lives or the human rights of TCs. It only threatens the unfairly acquired land and privileges you gained on our expense by collaborating with foreign Imperialists.


Piratis,
Your posts do not deserve a reply,since you keep repeating the GC nationalist line without any thought . But I will tell you one human right which the TCs would have lost had Enosis with Greece became a reality at the end of the 50s...The greatest ONE of them all.... OUR RIGHT TO LIFE ...Please don't try to deny it,I am not listening any more to your drivel.... :evil:


How does enosis with Greece make you loose your right of life? We have been under British rule, previously under Ottoman rule and so on. Why being part of the Greek Republic would mean that you lose your right to life?

Your imaginary baseless scenarios do not count as an excuse.

All you would loose are the Ottoman style privileges you had on our expense. Nothing more.
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