Cyprus-Forum.com

[aussieturk]

And one more thing: Even though your casualties where during wars and conflicts which you started, and even though they are only a fraction of the casutlies and suffering you cause to us, we still do not excuse the death of innocent people and we still do not tell you that "You have no right to complain". On the contrary the president of Cyprus in the most official way has condemned any crimes against innocent TCs.

On the contrary not only you show no sign of remorse for the massively more crimes you committed against us, but you CELEBRATE them. Yes, you CELEBRATE both your invasions against Cyprus, in 1571 and 1974. You celebrate the indiscriminate killing of 10000s of people, the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands of innocents and the stealing of our lands.

We are forgiving people, but you really test our limits with your aggression and arrogance.

Believe what you will, but these words are exactly that words.

How can any one be remorseful for what happened in 1571, when the Ottomans liberated you from the Venetians.

Turks (as a collective army) never ever have killed indiscriminately, they have of course been forced to kill during wars when there was resistance to their marching armies, or attacked like in WW1. But that was 100's of years ago and times were different.

Since WW1, ie modern times, Turkey has only ever engaged in protecting its people, and as guarantors of Cyprus, it was forced to protect the TC after the GC decided to start their rampage and wipe out tc whole villages.

Man your post is so delusional, no wonder the Cyprus solution will never ever be what you want it to be.

[Piratis]

And one more thing: Even though your casualties where during wars and conflicts which you started, and even though they are only a fraction of the casutlies and suffering you cause to us, we still do not excuse the death of innocent people and we still do not tell you that "You have no right to complain". On the contrary the president of Cyprus in the most official way has condemned any crimes against innocent TCs.

On the contrary not only you show no sign of remorse for the massively more crimes you committed against us, but you CELEBRATE them. Yes, you CELEBRATE both your invasions against Cyprus, in 1571 and 1974. You celebrate the indiscriminate killing of 10000s of people, the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands of innocents and the stealing of our lands.

We are forgiving people, but you really test our limits with your aggression and arrogance.

Believe what you will, but these words are exactly that words.

How can any one be remorseful for what happened in 1571, when the Ottomans liberated you from the Venetians.

Liberated us? You call the murder of 20 thousand people in Nicosia alone, "liberation"?

"In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. "

Turks (as a collective army) never ever have killed indiscriminately, they have of course been forced to kill during wars when there was resistance to their marching armies, or attacked like in WW1. But that was 100's of years ago and times were different.

My friend, the Turks have committed some of the worst kinds of genocides against millions of innocent people. Wake up!

Since WW1, ie modern times, Turkey has only ever engaged in protecting its people, and as guarantors of Cyprus, it was forced to protect the TC after the GC decided to start their rampage and wipe out tc whole villages.

Really? Are you able to talk with dates and specific figures, or you just know how to repeat lies of the Turkish propaganda?

7th of June 1958: The TCs start burning GC houses and shops. This was followed by the massacre of 8 unarmed GCs near Geunyeli on the 12 of June 1958. These attacks of TCs against innocent unarmed GCs is what started the inter-communal conflict.



In 1974 the invasion started on the morning of the 20th of July. Not a single TC was killed in 1974 until then. Not a single TC was killed during the 5 days of the coup, or in any time earlier that year. Your position that Turkey invaded to "protect the TC after the GC decided to start their rampage and wipe out tc whole villages." is a big fat LIE. ALL casualties that TCs had in 1974 (a few 100s) were AFTER July 20th 1974, and AFTER the Turks and TCs started to kill GCs by the 1000s, ethically cleanse GCs by the 100s of thousands and commit a ton of other atrocities such as the rape of under age girls.

Man your post is so delusional, no wonder the Cyprus solution will never ever be what you want it to be.

You know nothing except from the fairy tales that the Turkish propaganda fed you and then you call me delusional? A person who says that the Ottomans invaded Cyprus to "liberate Cypriots from the Venetians", and that the Turks invaded Cyprus to "Protect the TCs" is as delusional as it gets. Both the Ottomans and the Turks were/are Imperialist powers which invaded Cyprus to expand their territory, serve their own geopolitical interests and exploit Cyprus. This is the truth and not the lame excuses that you give for the Ottoman/Turkish invasions against our island.

[denizaksulu]

"Mikkie...you guys like to talk about how Enosis was a legitimate right of the GCs back then...If you are right then Taksim was the legitimate right of the TCs..now Enosis did not happen,not because the GCs woke up and realised it was wrong to want to give one's country away,but because the TCs with Turkey's help stopped it in its tracks...Now we have Taksim,lets say,albeit not agreed to...Now HERE IS THE COMPROMISE...THE BIGGEST OF THEM ALL...TO AGREE TO A FEDERATION OR UNITARY STATE THE TCS WOULD BE GIVING UP THEIR OWN STATE...THEY WILL TROW OUT TAKSIM... Now don't you think that is a BIG enough compromise...???"

Firstly Bir, I personally never wanted or supported Enosis with Greece. So please DONT make the assumption that I do.

Onto your other point, the TC's DO NOT have their own state. What they have is built on land taken by force and is recognised as such by international bodies and international courts. This continues to be the case as clearly shown by the Orams case. These things will continue to happen as long as no solution is forthcoming.

So for the TC's to say that they are compromising by giving up 'their state' is complete bunkum because the state of the TC's is the RoC not the fantasy land of 'trnc'. The TC's simply do not want to give up what they have taken by force unless they can get something better overall and that is more to do with what Turkey wants as opposed to what the TC's want.

You tell me Bir, do you understand the fears of the GC's? Until you do, I don't think that you can trully appreciate what compromise is!

No ,Mikkie...you have to understand the fears of the TCs first...Because you were the majority,the stronger partner back in the Republic and you conspired first to disposess the TCs of their rights and was the primary factor in driving them into the enclaves...You might want to blame eveything on the TMT,but it wasn't the TMT who slaughtered the inhabitants of 3 villages (Murataga,Atlilar,Sandallar) in 63/64 troubles...For 11 long years they lived hand to mouth with fear of their lives,and your side chose to totally ignore their plight,and systematically drove the TCs out of Cyprus (myself included) with your discrimination and human rights abuses... You have no right to complain about the 74 events till you show some remorse and understanding and acceptance of your past wrongdoings first...Now they have their own state where they feel safe and protected...You and the whole world can call that entity what you like...for the TCs it is their own state,their own country ,even though they are not masters of their destiny...That doesnt seem to matter because they never were masters of their destiny in your hands,and they prefer to be at the mercy of the Turks rather than the GCs...That should tell you something about their frame of mind.... And as we,those who still remember what it was like before 63 keep dying off,those remaining will only feel more and more emotional ties with the trnc. So YES it is a big compromise for them to give it up,and the GCs need to understand that and behave accordingly...Else Taksim will be the de facto solution forever...The TCs will become Turks of Cyprus and life will just go on....And only fools like me would give a damn about the disappearance of our unique TC identity.... And who knows,maybe I will see the light too one day...The GCs don't give a damn,the TCs don't give a damn,Turkey certainly doesnt give a damn...So why should I


10 years from now I can see myself sitting with YFred at his zivania factory,playing tavli,listening to classical Turkish music (Munir Nurettin,Zeki Muren,Muzeyyen Senar,Bulent Ersoy,Yasar Ozel...)talking about the old times, as we drink ourselves to oblivion....

So a "state" where the TCs became the majority 35 years ago by means of murder, stealing and ethnic cleansing is a "Turkish state", but a state where the GCs have been the majority for 1000s of years can not be a GC state? How come?

We had every right for enosis, in the same way that every other of the Greek islands and territories had the right to be liberated from foreign empires, and unite in a free Greek Republic. Or maybe you think that Greece didn't have the right to exist as a united state just because Muslim minorities existed in various parts of it?

Your minority in Cyprus could continue to exist here, like the Muslim minority in Greece, or the Greek minority in Turkey. Why was it OK for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, against the will of the vast majority of Cypriots, but not OK for Cyprus to be part of the Greek Republic, which is what the vast majority of Cypriots wanted?

Union with Greece would not violate even a single of your human rights. NOT ONE. On the other hand, partition is not your right and it has never been your right, because in order to achieve partition you have to kill 1000s, ethnically cleanse 100s of thousands, and steal our land. These are human rights violations of the worst degree and you never had any right for such thing.

You have no right to complain about the 74 events till you show some remorse and understanding and acceptance of your past wrongdoings first

Really? Who started it first it is you. You invaded our island, killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots and oppressed us for centuries. When did you show any remorse for all that? Never! If we follow your logic, you have no right to complain about anything subsequent, until you show remorse for your crimes against us, which are the ones which came first, without any kind of provocation from us.

And the inter-communal conflict was again started by you in 1958.



When did you show any remorse for what you did in the 50s against us?

And the 200 or so people that died in those 3 villages you mention was not in 63/64, but in 1974 AFTER you slaughtered 1000s of Greek Cypriots and raped under-age girls.

As always you attack us, you kill us, and then you blame us because in the wars and conflicts you started, you have some (relatively few) casualties as well.

ALL The wars and conflicts in Cyprus between Cypriots and Turks were started by the Turks. From the very first one in 1571, to the oppression and mass murders against us that lasted until 1878, to your attacks against us which started the inter-communal conflict in June of 1958, to the war you started in July of 1974 and your subsequent illegal occupation of our island which continues until today. And then you come here to present yourselves as the victims and try to excuse yet more crimes against us because in the wars and conflicts YOU STARTED you also had a few casualties?

Dear:



I'd like to see you say this: "Union with Greece would not violate even a single of your human rights. NOT ONE. "

..with a straight face. You take us for suckers Piratis.

[Piratis]

Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.

[Kikapu]

Enosis did not take place, so why are we still talking about it today. Even during 1963-74 when the TCs were not part of the RoC government, Enosis still did not take place, so how come, and in 1974, Turkey had put a stop to it once and for all but Taksim did take place the moment Enosis officially died in 1974 and it continues to be today. So at what point is the Enosis dream of the GCs becomes a mute point for the TCs or is it going to be never just to justify in keeping the north, in which case, I can't see why the GCs would ever allow Taksim to become official in the north and that they will use all their legal, political and economic power to "kill off" the north one way or the other if a Fair & Just solution is not desired by some. In the end, if peace is not sought now, there will be many more wars ahead on many fronts, so I say to you all, leave the past behind and move forward, or else you will all die in trying to maintain all your self righteousness as to who is/was right and who is/was wrong of past events. There's plenty of blame to go around and nobody comes out smelling like a rose. Before anyone needs to show empathy and understand to the other side, first accept the wrong doings done by your own sides before demanding acknowledgment of wrong doings committed by the other side. Lets not put the cart before the horse, or else, we will never get anywhere fast, but instead go backwards and not forward.!

[denizaksulu]

Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.

Its funny that whenever you are challenged, you will refer to 'Human Rights'. Where were you during the years 1963 - 1974 Piratis.

I am aware of the 'Invasion' ethnic cleansing and the misuse of GC properties in the south and I condemn this. However the actions of and the responses on this forum so far does not give me the impression that YOU are much bothered with the wellbeing of TC on this, our beautiful island. You not only want to punish us, you want to choke us to death. If not to death, you know your actions are gradually reducing the TC population by forcing them out of Cyprus. God help you when the New Settlers begin to beat their drums. You need to get your act together before its too late.

[Kikapu]

[Piratis]

Why don't you tell me which one of your human rights union with Greece would violate?

Union with Greece does not require you being killed, ethnically cleansed, or any of the other human rights violations required in order to achieve partition.

Cypriots have the right to democratically choose where their own island will belong. In Greek Republic, EU, or Australia. Just because you don't agree with it (you have the right to disagree) this doesn't mean you have the right to attack and start killing people to prevent Cypriots from having their rights.

What if you didn't like the union of Cyprus with EU either? You could say for example that EU is a "Christian Club" and since you are not Christians you don't agree with such a union. Would that mean that your disagreement should overwrite the democratically expressed will of the majority, and that you had the right to attack and kill people in order to enforce your opinion in an undemocratic way?

You can have the 100% of your human rights and nobody every denied you these rights, but beyond that you should also learn to respect democracy, and understand that you have no right to force your will by attacking and killing people. This is the 21st century, not the era of the Ottoman empire where you could show total disregard to the rights of the majority.

Its funny that whenever you are challenged, you will refer to 'Human Rights'. Where were you during the years 1963 - 1974 Piratis.

I am aware of the 'Invasion' ethnic cleansing and the misuse of GC properties in the south and I condemn this. However the actions of and the responses on this forum so far does not give me the impression that YOU are much bothered with the wellbeing of TC on this, our beautiful island. You not only want to punish us, you want to choke us to death. If not to death, you know your actions are gradually reducing the TC population by forcing them out of Cyprus. God help you when the New Settlers begin to beat their drums. You need to get your act together before its too late.

You were the one who was challenged and avoided answering. I asked you to tell me which of your human rights would union with Greece violate. Where is your answer to that?

63 didn't happen out of the blue. In 1958 you attacked us starting the conflict, collaborated with the colonialists and forced on us the 1960 agreements that benefited yourselves and your imperialist friends on our expense. In 1963 Makarios proposed changes to that foreign imposed constitution that would make the system of Cyprus more fair and democratic. But instead of even discussing the proposals you choose to insist on the unfair privileges granted to you by the Imperialists.

I was not alive in 63, but if I was I would support the same things that I support now. Human rights, democracy (one person one vote) and no discrimination based on ethnicity. These are the things that you ALWAYS rejected, and the reason why we have conflicts and wars.

The TC population is reduced by your actions, not mine. Rhodes island, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1948. Since then the population of the Turkish minority has increased by 20%. This fact alone refutes your baseless claims that union with Greece was a threat for your minority.

Nothing of what I support threatens the lives or the human rights of TCs. It only threatens the unfairly acquired land and privileges you gained on our expense by collaborating with foreign Imperialists.

[denizaksulu]

:idea:

Whats up Doc?

[Kikapu]

:idea:

Whats up Doc?

Sorry, double post instead of correction to my last post.!