Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

I am sorry,Kikapu,saying lets have peace first and empathy and compassion will follow is like saying lets have the wedding first and love and passion will follow...

Well, that's how it use to be in the past, wasn’t it ? Well, at least with the TCs and the Turks and almost all Muslim countries. Still the case with many countries as well as in Turkey and in the TC community.!

The 2 sides do not trust each other...They do not respect each other...They have very little understanding and sympathy for each other...They are deeply suspicious of each other's motives and good intentions...How can you possibly expect this union to work without some ground work,building bridges,improving trust and understanding...????

Given the above, Bir, how do you expect them to have love and passion before the wedding.??

No, what will get these two sides together initially is an offer of Just & Fair settlement which will benefit each side economically and politically if they truly want to remain as a "couple", and the True Federation will be a system where the two sides will be joint at the hip to each other. With such a method where everything is in the open as an open society, more and more trust will build over time, then they will give each other all the empathy and understand of their past mistakes to each other. You are expecting too much for empathy and understanding to happen when at the moment because they only care about their own miseries and not the miseries of others. I wish I was wrong, but since what you wish for has not already happened on a very large scale, it still has a long way to go before it does.

Lets not beat around the bush....Nothing will happen without a compromise...There is no mutual trust and respect...No amount of wishful thinking will make the TCs get back into this relationship unless their fundamental fears for their lives are guaranteed to their satisfaction,Kikapu...

And who has ever said anything differently, that compromises are not needed or will need not to be made to get a settlement. The question is, are you going to ask the GCs to give up on their Democratic and Human Rights and give them to the TCs instead. If you are, then my guess is they are going to tell the TCs "not in your life". Security for all will need to be addressed since both sides has their own concerns, therefore a neutral party will need to be the catalyst to become the compromise for both sides to accept. Each side does need to give up in what they really want, that's why it is called a "compromise", otherwise it is called "my way or the highway".! For example, guess who protects the pope in the Vatican. It is not the Italians, the Irish, or the British. No, it is a neutral country called Switzerland. I'm not suggesting the Swiss should do it in Cyprus, but NATO is a very reliable force, specially if Cyprus were to also become a member. It was the membership of Greece and Turkey in NATO that has prevented wars between those nations. Same can apply here in Cyprus.

You are wasting your time and energy...The TCs will not listen to your arguments because they see no difference between yours and the GCs'...The same way the GCs will be deaf to Bananiot's arguments...

Hence the problem. In any case, I only give my own personal opinions. I have not been elevated to talk on anyone's behalf, unlike VP, for the majority TCs. He is hardly the face you would want to represent the TCs, but if that's the reality in what you say, then it is going to take more than me telling the GCs in what they have/are doing wrong to feel sorry for the TCs in large numbers. All they have to do is tell me, "yeah, but look who we have to deal with" is what will happen when you put VP's face to become the face of the majority TCs.

They only want to listen to what has been preached to them over the last 35+ years, because they believed for such a long time that they had the upper hand in getting what they wanted for a solution, because of Turkey's military force. RoC being in the EU has pretty much taken away all that "advantage" in what the north thought they had. It is no longer just 800,000 GCs to deal with where another kind of 1960 constitution or the Annan Plan can be forced upon them. Now they have become part of 500 Million other Europeans to be under their rules and regulations in the form of the EU Principles. All the GCs need to is just say to the TCs, "sorry, no can do in what you want, because Brussels will not allow it". So the only choice that will remain for the TCs is to stay as they are in their present predicament, look for recognition, as they have done so for the last 35+ years to no avail, or accept a settlement that is Fair & Just where everyone will need to live under the rules of the EU Club. The agreed Fair & Just settlement does not need to be implemented overnight, but the foundations of the new Federal Republic will need to be well and truly established and agreed on even if it means going through stages in getting it done. It may take 5,10,15 years to see it through.

That is far different than what you advocate, which is to agree on a faulty plan now just for the sake of getting a settlement in the hopes that the parties in the future can unite in a more democratic way. Has the 13 point proposed by Makarios has not thought us anything and how it was rejected. Those proposal too was meant to be more democratic, but not everyone wanted more democracy because the status quo was just fine with them. So what makes you think a faulty plan for one side now can be made better in the future if the side who has gotten better part of the deal is going to give some back to the side who has gotten less in the first place. If you think that will need to happen for a long term peace, then why not give the TCs the bad part of the faulty plan now, so that in the future the GCs can give some of their privileges to the TCs if they can be trusted. I hope you can see what I'm doing here. In order to ask something that you think is what’s needed for a settlement, just reverse the roles and see what you come up with and see if you agree with it. I'm not at all taking the GCs side on this or anything else for that matter, I'm just understanding the unfairness in what you are asking, because I sure do not want such unfair faulty plans for the TCs to be stuck with, in the hopes that we can get more in the future.!

You might have moved on but the average TC living day in day out in Cyprus have not... You can make a really good contribution on this forum if you started taking on some of the more extreme GC forumers here,who are openly insulting all things Turkish and TC...

We all need to come to terms with our past at some point, Bir. Do you really think I have forgotten being in that neighbour's room with 20 others in Küçük Kaymakli in 1963 when we were discovered by the GCs pointing their guns at us and taken as prisoners.? Do you think I have forgotten eating, washing and sleeping in my uncle's carpenters' small storage room with my grandmother.? Do you think I have forgotten lining up to get food from a UN food centre using our rations cards.? Do you think I have forgotten not seeing my mother and siblings after I left in 1964 for 4 years while she was left behind with 5 small children to care for while she worked to cook for the TC fighters and living in run down buildings.? No my friend, nothing is forgotten, Don't let my and my family’s "moved on" claims give you false impression that we have forgotten what we went through or that we did not have it as bad as others, therefore the others cannot move on unless we have a settlement on something like Annan plan to ease their pain and suffering. It is likely to continue due to further resentment by the majority for once again the TCs getting a better deal than they, regardless what the TCs went through between 1963-1974.!

By remaining silent you give those comments your silent approval...That is what hurts most TCs here,I am sure...

I’m sorry my friend, but such "quilt trip" accusations does not work with me. I find this to be a very extremist attitude in fact, which is no different than what you accused the GCs here on the forum, for them grouping all the TCs in the north as thieves just because some have dealt in stolen GC land.. Lets keep our eyes on the ball shall we and not become another George Bush with his extremist views like "either you are with us, or against us" attitude, specially coming from someone like yourself whom I admire, whose views had not been any different than mine for the last 3 years.!

[Pyrpolizer]

Talking about violations of GC rights...What do you think is happening in Cyprus as we speak? How easy it is for people to forget that there were 2 partners in the RoC Republic and one has been missing for since 1963...Where are our rights accorded under the 1960 agreements...do you also think the TCs simply walked away to advance the Partition cause of Denktas...??? You say the GCs have total control of the RoC legally...That has been the GC argument for ages...Do you as a TC believe that?? You see nothing wrong with the way the TCs lost their share of power in the RoC? do you also think it was all their fault??? Does any moral arguments come in here???

Of course I'm not happy that the TCs are not in the RoC government and how the TCs left/was pushed out, is no longer the issue, because it has been decided by powers to be based on International Laws, that the RoC has full legal and legitimate power over all of it's territory, so it is pointless to ascertain what I believe in or what it ought to be, because I can't change anything. We have to deal with the reality and the reality is what it is. Part of the TCs not having any legitimacy and legality has to do with the creation of the "trnc". It is in fact the "trnc" that lacks the legality and the legitimacy and not the TCs themselves, but since the TCs live in the north, then it becomes one and the same. What would happen if the TCs said to the RoC, "OK, we will dismantle the "trnc" and would like to be part of the RoC". I do not think the RoC can refuse to accept such an offer and the TCs may even get all the conditions of the 1960's constitution, including Turkey's guarantor power.

Now, the RoC will say to the TCs, "well, that is great, but we already have an agreement to find a solution under BBF and that's what we want, but if you want to go back to the old RoC, then we still need to open the constitution to bring it up to date now that we are in the EU". It is possible that compromises still need to be made, but it is also possible for the guarantor ship to remain in place for x number of years despite what Kifeas believes that the UN charter overrides such an arrangement. I just don't believe the GCs are going to agree to have 2 states under BBF, rotating presidency and let Turkey to remain in Cyprus. What do the GCs get in return other than some land, is my question to you.? So to answer your question, under International Laws, the GCs Human Rights are violated by being cleansed from their properties in the north by Turkey and many UN resolutions back this violations. Whether it is right or wrong or what I think is pointless to discuss, because we need to focus on the realities on the ground, and the reality is, the RoC has all the rights and the north does not...............period.!

I am not interested in what the powers that be decided,Kikapu. I am interested in what you believe...Please don't fob me off with "it is no longer the issue". For a lot of TCs it is still very much the issue...I know what you believe can't change anything,but it can change the way some TCs consider your position,if you answered that question....

I too often wondered what would happen if the TCs demanded back their rights under the 1960 constitution...But I also wonder this :why hasn't the GCs invited the TCs to return to the RoC in all this time...???

What would the GCs get in return apart from some land,you ask...

They will get an interim solution which will see most of the settlers repatriated....They will get a great reduction in the Turkish soldier numbers....A lot of GC refugees will get the satisfaction of returning to their ancestral homes...And they will get a lot of goodwill and respect from the TCs...And this will be a new beginning for Cyprus hopefully leading to True cooperation,True federation with full democracy and human rights as you are demanding...

Now I begin to scratch my head again ,Kikapu...There will soon be no skin left on my head...
You are repeating the GC reactionary nationalist line that everything about the RoC is legal and everything about the trnc is illegal....You say that is the reality...and we must accept it...You forget there is another reality for the TCs...A reality which has lasted since 1974...They have their own state,guarded by 40,000 Turkish soldiers,where they have survived ,if not prospered,despite all the embargoes and isolation measures imposed by the whole world at the request of their GC compatriots...And they don't give a damn whether they fully assimilate into the greater Turkish society and culture or not...Now what are we going to do with that reality????

Many of the things you say are just impressions dear Bir. You assume that the majority of TCs want Turkeys Guarantees, whereas polls conducted during the Anan Plan revealed that one of the MAJOR reasons TCs voted yes was to get rid of the Turkish Army. You assume the majority of TCs are hell scared from GCs to the point of paranoia, whereas this is far from the truth...
The fear paranoia is in fact cultivated in a masterful way among the TCs, by their leadership, in fact they never miss a chance. Just a week ago Eroglu accused us of flooding Morfou with water from the dams. Have a look at this topic:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 0d2489c741

VP and some other TCs in here do the same CONSTANTLY....

About as to why the GCs never(?) invited the TCs back to the RoC 1960 constitution, this is not true. Klerides did, even Papadopoulos did it in publicly speeches. The TC leadership does not even want to hear such a thing, their mentality is to get everything they had from 1960 plus a lot more. BBF was agreed long time ago, your side does not want to hear of anything less than that, and unfortunately the GC side has to show consistency. Having the GC propose that officially will be accused of trying to change the agreed line, and just have a look above from VPs post to see how your leadership will propagandise in such occassion.

[Kikapu]

Bir excellent posts, you have knocked Kikapu for six and in the face of such reason he will not even bother to reply with answers that address the valid issues you have put forward. Well done and thank you for expressing the views of the majority of TCs.

What the hell do you know. You don't even fully understand the written English language that well. Why don't you go and take your dog for a walk. It will do both of you good to get some fresh air..!

[Pyrpolizer]

I would like to add the following important point: There are 2 months left until April. If there won't be a solution until then and If Eroglu is elected he will surely go clearly for a partition agreement.

I guarantee you the GC side will not care anymore and they will withdraw everything they have proposed/accepted in the past. There is a lot of opposition regarding this BBF in fact 3 of the 5 parties plus the Church oppose it directly and they push for the Government to grab the first opportunity to get rid of it. In fact there was too much pressure when a couple of weeks ago Turkey submitted her proposals which were clearly considered as a 2 states solution.

I warn the TCs in here that after 2 months they will have to kiss goodbye the BBF, and that the GCs will just keep saying NO to everything that is not in line with EU principles and Aquis. As for Turkeys Gurantees and stuff like that, they will just be rejected with lots of these ---> :lol:

And then you will have no one to blame other than yourselves. Patience has it's limits, 2 months more and you will see what happens. There will be no begging anymore.

[BirKibrisli]

I do not have my own proposals for a solution,Kikapu...And as I said many times I have no trouble living with your proposals...But it is obvious now,the TCs will not accept any solutiion which will remove Turkey out of the picture from the beginning...The agreement will have to accomodate this,or there will be no agreement...I have one good reason why the GCs should accept a compromise on this,if they don't they will loose 36 % of Cyprus to Turkey...But they will have one consolation,the TCs will lose 100% of Cyprus...Reading cetain Forumers' comments here, that might just be enough incentive for the GCs to insist on not compromising on their recently found democratic and human rights principles...

If the TCs were to accept True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles, I do not believe Turkey would want to remain in Cyprus, because they will get nothing from it as far as having any control of the TCs, GCs or any part of the territory of Cyprus. If the above can be agreed on, the RoC can ask Turkey to remain on the island with couple of thousand troops, out of sight, for x number of years to be as a symbolic moral booster for the TCs since you think the TCs are so fragile from their past experience with the GCs, but not as a guarantor power with any unilateral intervention rights. My guess is, Turkey will pack it's bags and leave in a very short time because the north state will function just perfectly in it's own security as being one of two states joined at the hip with the south. For that to happen, the north would need to return 50% of the north back to the GCs however, which at this point, the TCs are saying "Hell NO". The only worry to the GCs would be, if a settlement was to be a Confederation and the TCs needed to secede from the union, then the Turkish army would come very handy to see it done.

This was one of the possibilities had the AP was accepted, because today, I believe Cyprus would have been officially partitioned for ever with the north lost to the GCs, so you see, the GCs understand very well, that having a Confederation is a lost cause for them as well as the north and if Turkey can forcefully take it, it is still a loss but not with their approval, which they will then use their legal and political power to give Turkey and the TCs hell and be a thorn at Turkey's side forever. At that point, Cyprus would officially become a "Greek" state and the TCs will become non existent except in history books. Then the next event will be one of two things, either Turkey will trade the north to become a EU member, or there will be one final war to end this long lasting "chess game", because at different time in the future, there’s never a guarantee that Turkey will remain in the same way she is today. They will either reform internally to become part of the west or that the west will get tired of Turkey and treat it like another Iraq situation. One thing for sure however, is that the RoC's place in the EU will remain secure gaining political clout and support from all the EU members. They will not lose the rest of the island to Turkey, but stand a good chance of getting it all back some when in the future, long after the TCs have become a footnote in history books.

Are you kidding Kikapu? Even if they wanted to the TCs couldn't possibly turn around now and say," so long Turkey,it was nice knowing you!" That is impossible...Any politician who even thinks about saying such a thing would be going to his political lynching before he finishes saying it...

Hence here we have the big Catch 22 of Cyprus conflict today...
THE GCS WILL NOT AGREE TO A COMPREHENSIVE SOLUTIION TILL TURKEY IS OUT OF THE PICTURE....AND TURKEY WILL NOT GO UNTIL A COMPREHENSIVE SOLUTION IS FOUND...

Nothing you or I or the EU says will not make the slightest difference...There was a country once which could have decisively influenced Turkey's actions,but those days are gone I believe....The USA is no longer the global powerhouse that she was...And Turkey has just started buying military equipment from the Russsians...another sign of the USA's and EU's diminishing influence. Please do not make the mistake,like most GCs here,of overestimating the EU's power over Turkey...By the time the EU is ready for Turkey,and Turkey ready for EU,the EU's global financial position would be so diminished that it will have little sway over the percieved or real national interests of Turkey.The coming century will be dominated by China and India,possibly followed by Brazil and Indonesia...This is the direction Turkey will increasingly turn to in her search for wealth and political inflluence...Another few decades and the whole of Cyprus will become a footnote in history,let alone the TCs....

[YFred]

I would like to add the following important point: There are 2 months left until April. If there won't be a solution until then and If Eroglu is elected he will surely go clearly for a partition agreement.

I guarantee you the GC side will not care anymore and they will withdraw everything they have proposed/accepted in the past. There is a lot of opposition regarding this BBF in fact 3 of the 5 parties plus the Church oppose it directly and they push for the Government to grab the first opportunity to get rid of it. In fact there was too much pressure when a couple of weeks ago Turkey submitted her proposals which were clearly considered as a 2 states solution.

I warn the TCs in here that after 2 months they will have to kiss goodbye the BBF, and that the GCs will just keep saying NO to everything that is not in line with EU principles and Aquis. As for Turkeys Gurantees and stuff like that, they will just be rejected with lots of these ---> :lol:

And then you will have no one to blame other than yourselves. Patience has it's limits, 2 months more and you will see what happens. There will be no begging anymore.

Dream on. 2 more months and partition is set.

[Pyrpolizer]

I would like to add the following important point: There are 2 months left until April. If there won't be a solution until then and If Eroglu is elected he will surely go clearly for a partition agreement.

I guarantee you the GC side will not care anymore and they will withdraw everything they have proposed/accepted in the past. There is a lot of opposition regarding this BBF in fact 3 of the 5 parties plus the Church oppose it directly and they push for the Government to grab the first opportunity to get rid of it. In fact there was too much pressure when a couple of weeks ago Turkey submitted her proposals which were clearly considered as a 2 states solution.

I warn the TCs in here that after 2 months they will have to kiss goodbye the BBF, and that the GCs will just keep saying NO to everything that is not in line with EU principles and Aquis. As for Turkeys Gurantees and stuff like that, they will just be rejected with lots of these ---> :lol:

And then you will have no one to blame other than yourselves. Patience has it's limits, 2 months more and you will see what happens. There will be no begging anymore.

Dream on. 2 more months and partition is set.

You have to buy it. And the price is very high.

[Kikapu]

I would say the same thing to Bananiot,if I was talking to him Kikapu...
Because he only criticises the GC position,he too has neutralised himself in GC eyes...But we are talking about you here...It is a great thing that you moved on...But where have you moved on to??? You have moved onto exactly where the GC position is...Lets forget about the past,look only to the future...The problem is simply one of Turkish occupation..The TCs have been working hand in hand with Turkey from way back to achieve partition...They have ethnically cleansed us from the North...The TCs moved to the North as part of this great plan to achieve partition...Is this where you moved on to???Do you believe all that???Because by remaining silent when that is repeated ad nauseum on this Forum,you give it approval and credibility...

But Bir, you haven't said it to Bananiot and neither has any other TC, including me. I know you only want to talk about me, and we will, but it is important to establish credibility and honesty to you concerns about me in criticising the TC side over the GC side. It sounds to me like in what you are saying to me is, "do as I say and not as I do" or "what's good for the goose, it is NOT good for the gander".! If you wanted to be objective, you could at least equate Bananiot and me as two linesman each guarding only half of the football pitch , but instead you want to put me in a position of a referee to be responsible for the whole pitch. Being "neutralised" is not the issue here, what ever that means btw, because if someone doesn't want to hear what you have to say that does not fit into their own ideals, the messenger will always get the blame, hence the phrase "hey, don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger". But he will be "shot" all the same because not everyone is going to like the message.

Now, lets talk about me. You say that I have moved towards the "GC position", what does that mean.? I consider myself as a Cypriot first and then a TC, as I've done the same in Britain and the US. I align myself with others based on political ideology and not based on ethnic lines when it comes to politics.. Your own views had been very much same as mine for the last 3 years, so what are you saying, that you were taking on the GCs position and not your own political ideology.? Don't get me wrong, it is OK for one to change their political position, even it means 180° turn. It happens on occasions from time to time in politics. I consider myself as a Democrat and do not agree with the points of view of Republicans on many issues, because of political ideology, so I criticize them and they citizen me because of what they believe in, which is different than mine. Welcome to Democracy of political ideology of different spectrums.

We all know that Enosis and Taksim was in the works in Cyprus after the 1960 "independence" of Cyprus, and in order to achieve that, there had to have been plans for both sides which varied in style and tactics. What you described above is a very plausible plan to achieve Taksim and it worked, has it not, as Taksim crossed the finishing line in 1974 before Enosis could, but then again, according to a post made by Bananiot few days ago, he clearly showed in a speech made by Makarios in 1968 stating that the Enosis dream was over in 1968, therefore Taksim was the only "horse" in the race from 1968-1974 era.

You are not answering my questions,Kikapu....You are side stepping them and giving me generalised summary of the official GC position.... I will make it easy for you...I will ask you very specific questions and expect very specific answers,without drowning them in well know GC propaganda...

No Bir, I have answered all your questions. If you do not like the answers, there's not too much I can do about that. By you constantly repeating that my answers are "GC based propaganda" it itself is becoming a propaganda that is no different than VP's. I'm not in the habit of sidestepping in my beliefs to win some brown points from anyone, let alone from any extremists TCs or GCs. I'm giving you my own personal views based on how I see the "political chess board" in front of us. Naturally we all have our own ideas what should be the next move and I'm telling you mine as everyone is doing the same with theirs.

1...do you believe the core of the Cyprus problem was a desire by Turkey to expand her territories????

2...Do you think the TC climb into the enclaves in 1963 was simply to open the way for Turkish occupation??? They had no legitimate fears for their lives????

3...Would you consider the TC move into enclaves as "ethnic cleansing"?
Or does that only apply to the GC expulsion from the North???

Let us get your honest opinion on these points...You do not of course have to answer these questions....You can simply say it is none of my business...But ,please, don't side step them again and pretend to answer...

1. The last 36 years says "YES". Had they came and did what they were suppose to do and left, then the answer would be a "NO". While I was in Turkey last October, some Turks believed that Turkey should have taken all of Cyprus back in 1974. If it wasn't for expansion purposes, then there would not have been any need to expel GCs from the north if we were to overlook at her all other faulty. If the TCs were their major concerns to help them from the GCs, Turkey should have come in 1963 and to spared us the bad times from 1963-1974. I do not want to hear any excuses why Turkey did not come in 1963 because America did not let her, because then Turkey should have never become a Guarantor Power to Cyprus and particularly for the TCs, if she needed permission like a child needing a permission from her teacher to go to the bathroom. Turkey is part responsible for the sufferings of the TCs along with those seeking Enosis and Taksim. I'm sure that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's what happened.

2. Yes, the TCs did fear for their lives and it was also a very ideal way to try and bring most TCs together for that eventuality for Taksim by their leaders. Naturally Turkey would have loved to take part of Cyprus once the British left. After all, they had it for 300 years at one point, so what better way to take it back, if not in full, but in part by coming in to save the TCs from the GCs. Many variables played part once the 1960 constitution was signed. From then on, the race was on as to who was going to achieve Enosis or Taksim first, or for much better outcome, by having a double Enosis-Taksim with as little blood shed as possible. It appears that the extremist from the Enosis felt they deserved 100% and was their aim, but in 1968, Makarios had already given up on the whole idea for Enosis, but Taksim kept on going.

3. YES, it was ethnic cleansing, speaking from experience that we went through in Küçük Kaymakli. We were uprooted at the point of a gun, shipped to imprisonment, and then dropped off someplace in Nicosia which was not where our home was. I don't know the exact stories on how all the other TCs ended up in enclaves, but I'm sure they had somewhat similar experience, if not at the point of the gun from the GCs, but at the point of a gun from the TMT.!

[Kikapu]

I would like to add the following important point: There are 2 months left until April. If there won't be a solution until then and If Eroglu is elected he will surely go clearly for a partition agreement.

I guarantee you the GC side will not care anymore and they will withdraw everything they have proposed/accepted in the past. There is a lot of opposition regarding this BBF in fact 3 of the 5 parties plus the Church oppose it directly and they push for the Government to grab the first opportunity to get rid of it. In fact there was too much pressure when a couple of weeks ago Turkey submitted her proposals which were clearly considered as a 2 states solution.

I warn the TCs in here that after 2 months they will have to kiss goodbye the BBF, and that the GCs will just keep saying NO to everything that is not in line with EU principles and Aquis. As for Turkeys Gurantees and stuff like that, they will just be rejected with lots of these ---> :lol:

And then you will have no one to blame other than yourselves. Patience has it's limits, 2 months more and you will see what happens. There will be no begging anymore.

Pyro, I agree with you and I'll give it to you from another angle.

The reason why the RoC is not protesting against the settlers voting in the future referendums, is because they got the TCs right where they want them with the help of the settlers being the majority vote in the north. If the RoC wants to give into the demands made by Turkey and the "trnc" then the settlers are not a factor. It will just make the "YES" vote in the north that much bigger with the settlers, but if the RoC does not want to give into Turkey's demands and the "trnc's", then they will load up any anti settler and Turkey propositions into future referendums knowing full well that the answer will be a resounding "NO". It's a win-win for the RoC. The average TC will get screwed coming and going from here on. They cannot decide anything themselves anymore. So the end result is going to be a wait and see game until something gives in a major way.! Short of Turkey taking over whole island, the TCs will be the major losers if a settlement is not found soon.!

[Viewpoint]

Bir excellent posts, you have knocked Kikapu for six and in the face of such reason he will not even bother to reply with answers that address the valid issues you have put forward. Well done and thank you for expressing the views of the majority of TCs.

What the hell do you know. You don't even fully understand the written English language that well. Why don't you go and take your dog for a walk. It will do both of you good to get some fresh air..!

You are wrong again, I dont have a dog plus I may not be as articulate as you in the bullshit stakes but I understand that you are biased and totally on the side of the GCs, without even one arguement or opposing view against GCs, this places your credibility in the trash can, the above post only reveals your own mentality when challenged, Bir has done a excellent job in exposing why you can never be taken seriously by TCs.