Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

There is no doubt you have moved on,Kikapu and that is very commendable...But do you believe the average TC represented by Viewpoint also moved on??? And when you say your close relatives have all moved on,what exactly do you mean??? Are they prepared to return to Cyprus and live with our GC compatriots if a solution is not found??? If not why not? If yes,why haven't they done so till now???I am assuming from your writings that most of your close family live overseas....Please correct me if I am wrong...

Yes my friend, I have moved on and so has all my close family members. We do not harbour any bad feelings towards anyone despite losing members from our extended family in the conflict, but then again, who hasn't from both sides on a small island like Cyprus. All my family from my father's side are in the UK as well as my sister in Turkey. They have built their lives in those countries, therefore that's where they will stay. On my mother's side of the family, they mostly live in the north as well as one or two in the UK. I have moved to few countries in the last 46 years since leaving Cyprus at age 9 and for me, if I ever do move back, it will be at later stage of my life. But if I were to move today to the RoC, I wouldn't have any concerns what so ever regarding my personal safety or being treated differently from anyone else in the south. I owe all this to my two weeks in Cyprus back in 2007 where I met so many GCs and never felt uncomfortable after the first initial day or two, and that was no thanks to the Fascists on this forum bad mouthing the GCs and their treatment of the TCs in the south. As you know, I wrote about that experience here on the forum, just like you wrote your experience of your trip to the south in 2008. Today, if I were to choose between living in the RoC as a EU member state or living in the north's corrupted society created by the TC leaders for the TCs, I would choose the south. However, if there is a peace settlement based on True Federation with True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles, I wouldn't care where I lived in Cyprus, because I know, that if the individual state would fail my rights, the Federal Government won't. This is why we need a True Federation in Cyprus, just so that everyone's individual and constitutional rights will be protected.

I had a similar experience,Kikapu,and I also described it in my "dairy",but do you think 2 weeks as a tourist with your girlfriend (and I take it she is very swiss looking) are enough to make such an important decision...It is one thing to be an exotic TC tourist in the RoC today,but do you think you'd have felt the same if you were one of tens of thousands of TCs settled in the South and competing with the GCs on jobs,houses,or running a business??? when you read some of the comments from our GC forumers here,does it give you the confidence that they have all moved on too,that there is no underlying racism,not to mention bitterness and hatred towards the TCs??? Do you think the RoC as it stands today is ready to accomodate tens of thousands of TCs,and offer them protection from physical harrassment, discrimination and prejudice???

Bir, it is not fair to move the "goal post" half way through the game. You have asked me about myself and my families situation and desires to move back to Cyprus and I have answered you honestly. You did not ask me how it would be if thousands of TCs moved to the south without first a settlement being reached being a Fair & Just. Anyway, Pyro did answer you in a way I would have done, so I thank him for saving me the time. As for my girlfriend being a Swiss, it had nothing to do with me not being killed by GCs or they being rude to me. I look Cypriot and they just saw me. By the way, the Swiss girls are non descript looking, so perhaps you were thinking the Swedish girls where they almost all look alike. This is a common mistake the Americans would make. They would even ask me if I was identical with my twin sister.!

I had many positive interactions with all those I came across with in the RoC. Each and every day we were on the move and did not spend any time on the beach or in the pool of the hotels. Even the very tough bureaucrat lady in the land registry office spent couple of hours with me finding everything I was looking for, helping me fill all the request forms to get copies of the plots. The teachers at the school building where we were held prisoners for a week in 1963. My birthday dinner in the restaurant where a GC family paid for a bottle of wine and shared his own birthday cake with me. The waitress with 3 kids who's mother was heart broken seeing her property in the north and promising never to return because of what the "Turks" did to her village in the north. The lady who sold us the tickets for the day cruise where her mother never saw her home in the north again after 1974 and died of a broken heart. There were many more experiences as you know, but you get the picture. Anyone who wants to read my trip to the RoC in 2007, it is here.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus11420.html

My intension was not to move the goalposts,Kikapu,but to bring some reality into the situation...I still insist 2 weeks in the ROC as an exotic TC tourist is hardly enough time and experience to conclude that the GCs are ready and able to practice full scale multi ethnic democracy and guarantee people's human rights...By the way,thanks for understanding the point of my reference to your Swiss girlfriend..It was obviously to highlight the point that you were a European couple on a fun holiday...Certain people did try to make something else out of it,but was promply put into their place by VP...I extend my thanks and appreciation to VP as well...
I do not dobut that you had a great time in Cyprus,Kikapu,and your dealings with the authorities were entirely positive...But the RoC and its people will not be magically transformed into a perfectly functioning democracy where eveyone's human rights would be safeguarded...Do you know if there is a human right's commission in the RoC? An equal employment opportunity commission? do you know if their police have been trough cultural sensitivity training?And government department to promote understanding and trust? Again I invite you to imagine tens of thousands of TCs moving to the south after a fully democratic solution...Pyro has told us that "it would be like a red rug to a bull"...Are you confident that they will be treated the same way you were treated on your 2 week exotic holiday? The Chief GC progandist on this forum has told us,in an unguarded moment,what the GCs will accept....2 smaller GC controlled states,followed by one large GC controlled state...He didnt say "Cypriot controlled" but "GC controlled"...There you have it...Do you still think your full democracy,human rights and EU principles will save the day after a solution???

[BirKibrisli]

Again I return to my couple analogy,because one of the partners have used the assets left behind and managed to build a nice home,and managed to join a club with a lot of benefits,how realistic is it to expect the estranged partner to return "home",before the remaining partner shows remorse and agrees to go to anger management or couple therapy???? True democracy,human rights,international law etc sounds great,but it will not get the TCs and Turkey to sign on the dotted line...So obviously a compromise interim solution is needed...Knowing this,and insisting on True Federation,as you put it,is it not as questionable as Talat's ( and Turkey's) recent proposals?

Well, I have already given you two answers on your "Husband & Wife" analogy as to why it is not a good example for what we have in Cyprus. But I want to hear what is your "interim" compromise for a settlement. Just how many Cypriots rights do you intend violating just to get the TCs to sign up.? Do any of these rights violations also include the TCs or is it only for the GCs.? How do you plan to convince the EU to go along with the violations of their own principles in order to violate the rights of many Cypriots.? What is it in for the GCs to have their rights violated just to please the TCs.? They didn't like it in 1960, so why would they want it today when they have a complete control of the RoC legally, politically and economically, not to mentions yesterday's Orams case results. Can you give me one good reason why they would do all that, just to please the TCs (Turkey) when in fact any attempt like that gives them no guarantee of a better future, even if they did get some land back. I have given you my BBF power sharing proposals which is very balanced for both sides, which is where we TCs need to start thinking of achieving with the GCs. It will be a win-.win for everyone if a genuine unification is what we all want. If not, than it is a bad plan, as VP told me so, because it does not give the north to be pure TC (Turkey) and also does not allow partition at will. Now, you tell me who doesn't want to unify and who does between the GCs and the TCs.!

Whatever you think of my couple analogy,you need to respond to the key aspect of it,Kikapu...That is: there has been physical and emotional trauma in this relationship before...Do you really think we can just sweep it under the carpet,and move onto another relationship,whatever that is,and hope to make it a success...I think (from memory) you implied earlier that that marriage was forced,and that was the reason for troubles.

Your Husband & Wife analogy fails in several points. First of all, you began by using your analogy to only mean that it was the husband that was the bastard and the wife was the abused, therefore she had to trust him to come back to him with his new found wealth in the EU when we know she was also a bitch to him. Then you made it that it was both their fault but again it was the man who was mostly the bastard. But this analogy is based from a TCs point of view and when DT and Piratis gave you another Husband & Wife analogy from GCs point of view, you had dismissed it by saying "you don't remember it being that way". So it all depends who's Husband & Wife analogy we want to believe. In any case, "Husband & Wife" are just two people and Cyprus is 1,000,000 people. Two people can reason in any way shape or form to satisfy each other with promises and understanding. For all Cypriot people, they need a constructive agreements with checks and balances in the political power and judiciary to safeguards all those agreements in the form of a constitution. The agreement on a Just & Fair settlement is what is needed to get these people together under one roof. At the moment you cannot get all these people under one roof, and if you can't do that, how on earth are you going to get any empathy and understanding extended and received from each other. By the majority agreeing to a Fair & Just settlement is the beginning of that process and not the result of it.

There was no forced marriage before, but only forced conditions on the marriage. The new conditions of the next marriage will be chosen by the people themselves and not what Annan Plan tried to do, which was once again forced on them. No one is asking anyone to sweep anything under the carpet. History is never forgotten, it just becomes history.!

I still think my couple analogy is apt...And I did not put all the blame on the "stronger" side.I said there were a lot of emotional pain and trauma that must be dealt with before these two former partners can get into another realtionship. You are choosing to sidestep my assertion that the GCs have shown no remorse,and put all the blame squarely on the TCs...Our stories of loss and suffering are just that, exaggerated stories to justify hanging onto our "gains" on their "loss".From your silence or refusal to make any comments on such allegations,I can only conclude you too believe this to be the case...You obviously have the right to believe what you like,but it does make me scratch my head and wonder how you could possibly come to such a conclusion after your and your family's experiences...

You say the new conditions for the next "marriage" will be chosen by the people themselves...Yet,you want to force the TCs to drop Turkey's guarantees and adopt your full democracy principles...Why? Is it only a GC prerogative to refuse to accept terms of an agreement (even after signing them!)? will you be equally forgiving of the TCs if and when they say they did not agree to such and such but had no choice but sign at the time??? What's good for the goose????

History obviously becomes "history" (and sometimes "Herstory" ),as you say,but what is the use of History if we will simply forget all about it and do not learn any lessons???

[BirKibrisli]

But if we ignore the TC red lines today,the new marriage would be a forced one too...I see what you saying though...We have no chance of solving those problems,healing those traumas,so best to forget about them and move on...And hope for the best...This is the crunch point...The TCs have experienced something they had totally forgotten about...They experineced physical security....They do not go to bed and wonder whether they would be waking up in the morning,as it was the case between 63-74...I would be delighted if they moved on on mass...But it is not realistic Kikapu..It is wishful thinking on your part...They have not had your and my experiences,living in the trnc...They need to retain some of that security,at least intially....

Having "red lines" in any negotiations is always a bad idea because it defeats the purpose of negotiations. You can bring your concerns and find a amicable compromise for those concerns, but by saying, "these Red Lines are not negotiable" are doomed to make any settlement plans to fail, because the other side will have it's own “Red Lines” on the same issue, then what happens, a BIG nothing. So lets take the security issue for instance and I have raised this point twice already which you have refused to even mention it, so let me do it for the third time. A compromise on having Turkey in providing security for the TCs would be to have NATO troops to do it, which would also have soldiers from Greece and Turkey to provide security for both the TCs and the GCs without alienating anyone. You often talk about compromises need to be made, so what’s wrong having NATO as a compromise for the TA.

So you think it is wrong for the TC side to have 'red lines" but it is ok for the GCs??? Because mostly the TC red lines are the GC redlines in reverse,and vice versa..You must think that because I do not see you telling the GCs they must not have red lines,as it is not conductive for fruitful negotiations..Why is that Kikapu?

The TCs do not trust the NATO forces simply because they were burnt by the UN peace keepers (known in Cyprus as UN tourist force),plus the memory of the massacred Bosnian moslems under the watchful electronic eye of the NATO forces is still too fresh...I know and you know,that given their experineces in the past,the TCs will not trust anyone but Turkey with their lives...This is one thing the GCs will have to accept if they really want a solutiion. and you will do them a favour if you tell them so as well...

[boulio]

whats the roc red lines?

[Kifeas]

You say the new conditions for the next "marriage" will be chosen by the people themselves...Yet,you want to force the TCs to drop Turkey's guarantees and adopt your full democracy principles...Why? Is it only a GC prerogative to refuse to accept terms of an agreement (even after signing them!)? will you be equally forgiving of the TCs if and when they say they did not agree to such and such but had no choice but sign at the time??? What's good for the goose????

Bir, there is no GC hand that has the nerve to sign an agreement that will bestow unilateral intervention rights to Turkey, in the form of guarantees as we came to know them from the 1960 agreements between Greece, Turkey and the UK. There are reasons for that, and I am sure you know them all, but let me repeat them here once more.

1. Turkey is not a stable democracy, with a healthy political culture and system. It cannot guarantee its own peoples’ human, social and political rights. Turkey needs other countries to guarantee its own peoples’ human, cultural and political rights (see what happens with the Kurds and other minorities,) and it is very provocatively rich from her part, and that of the TCs, to demand that such a country should have unilateral interventions rights into another country, an EU member as a matter of fact, with a much healthier political culture than her own. That the RoC, as it stands today, has a much healthier political culture, I am not the one saying so but all international ratings in all relevant aspects and areas of concern.

2. Turkey had used once these hypothetical intervention rights, and it failed miserably to protect the human rights, constitutional order and sovereignty of Cyprus. Its intervention, in the form of invasion and occupation, evidently created a situation much worse than the one it supposedly came to rectify, and we all experience these results as of this day.

3. Cyprus is a sovereign country, just like Turkey, and a member of the UN and the EU as of 2004. If one sovereign country claims to retain the right to unilaterally intervene into another sovereign state, without this being valid in retrospect, then the principle of sovereign equality between UN members, as it is safeguarded by the UN Charter (article 2, par.1,) is nullified. Such a notion, i.e. that one sovereign country has the right to essentially invade another one at will -as long as there is some pre-text, outside any UN SC mandate, goes against the most fundamental principle based on which the UN was founded. Furthermore, Cyprus being a member of the EU, such a notion goes against the principles based on which the EU exists; more so when it extends to a country that is not even an EU member state itself.

If the Turkish side insists on this anachronistic and essentially illegal under international law provision, then I am afraid there will be no solution. Now, if there will be no solution, all sides stand to lose, including the GC one. However, I happen to believe that the TC side and Turkey are the sides that stand to lose the more, in the long run. Occupation and retention of northern Cyprus by Turkey will indeed become the biggest “white Elephant” example in the modern history, even after the last TC will vanish from the annals of history. I frankly suggest that if indeed the TCs and Turkey are interested in a solution, they should try and find other ways to address the issue of security of the TCs, from the hands of the bloodthirsty GCs -i.e. from the hands of those that many of them seek medical treatment on a daily basis. There are many ways to address this area of concern for the TCs, such as in the form of a mixed local and international force that will include Greece and Turkey, but in which no one country alone will have the right to take unilateral action. We are open to all proposals, BUT one which will allow Turkey to think or believe it has the legitimacy to repeat what it did in 1974 and afterwards.

And since you used the mariage example, no one in his right senses accepts to enter into a marriage relationship, in which the mother-in-law or the father-in-law will have the keys of the bedroom and the right to permanetly station themselves there, when the couble goes in bed every night. If you are ready to accept such a marriage, then so be it, but we are not. It goes against our dignity.

[Viewpoint]

You say the new conditions for the next "marriage" will be chosen by the people themselves...Yet,you want to force the TCs to drop Turkey's guarantees and adopt your full democracy principles...Why? Is it only a GC prerogative to refuse to accept terms of an agreement (even after signing them!)? will you be equally forgiving of the TCs if and when they say they did not agree to such and such but had no choice but sign at the time??? What's good for the goose????

Bir, there is no GC hand that has the nerve to sign an agreement that will bestow unilateral intervention rights to Turkey, in the form of guarantees as we came to know them from the 1960 agreements between Greece, Turkey and the UK. There are reasons for that, and I am sure you know them all, but let me repeat them here once more.

1. Turkey is not a stable democracy, with a healthy political culture and system. It cannot guarantee its own peoples’ human, social and political rights. Turkey needs other countries to guarantee its own peoples’ human, cultural and political rights (see what happens with the Kurds and other minorities,) and it is very provocatively rich from her part, and that of the TCs, to demand that such a country should have unilateral interventions rights into another country, an EU member as a matter of fact, with a much healthier political culture than her own. That the RoC, as it stands today, has a much healthier political culture, I am not the one saying so but all international ratings in all relevant aspects and areas of concern.

2. Turkey had used once these hypothetical intervention rights, and it failed miserably to protect the human rights, constitutional order and sovereignty of Cyprus. Its intervention, in the form of invasion and occupation, evidently created a situation much worse than the one it supposedly came to rectify, and we all experience these results as of this day.

3. Cyprus is a sovereign country, just like Turkey, and a member of the UN and the EU as of 2004. If one sovereign country claims to retain the right to unilaterally intervene into another sovereign state, without this being valid in retrospect, then the principle of sovereign equality between UN members, as it is safeguarded by the UN Charter (article 2, par.1,) is nullified. Such a notion, i.e. that one sovereign country has the right to essentially invade another one at will -as long as there is some pre-text, outside any UN SC mandate, goes against the most fundamental principle based on which the UN was founded. Furthermore, Cyprus being a member of the EU, such a notion goes against the principles based on which the EU exists; more so when it extends to a country that is not even an EU member state itself.

If the Turkish side insists on this anachronistic and essentially illegal under international law provision, then I am afraid there will be no solution. Now, if there will be no solution, all sides stand to lose, including the GC one. However, I happen to believe that the TC side and Turkey are the sides that stand to lose the more, in the long run. Occupation and retention of northern Cyprus by Turkey will indeed become the biggest “white Elephant” example in the modern history, even after the last TC will vanish from the annals of history. I frankly suggest that if indeed the TCs and Turkey are interested in a solution, they should try and find other ways to address the issue of security of the TCs, from the hands of the bloodthirsty GCs -i.e. from the hands of those that many of them seek medical treatment on a daily basis. There are many ways to address this area of concern for the TCs, such as in the form of a mixed local and international force that will include Greece and Turkey, but in which no one country alone will have the right to take unilateral action. We are open to all proposals, BUT one which will allow Turkey to think or believe it has the legitimacy to repeat what it did in 1974 and afterwards.

And since you used the mariage example, no one in his right senses accepts to enter into a marriage relationship, in which the mother-in-law or the father-in-law will have the keys of the bedroom and the right to permanetly station themselves there, when the couble goes in bed every night. If you are ready to accept such a marriage, then so be it, but we are not. It goes against our dignity.

In short you want a free hand to do as you please, even to rape and batter your partner in the bedroom with the inlaws tied up and powerless to do stop the aggression. You GCs need to feel the breath of Turkey on your necks as you will not behave, the last 36 years are clear testiment to this fact.

[Viewpoint]

Bir excellent posts, you have knocked Kikapu for six and in the face of such reason he will not even bother to reply with answers that address the valid issues you have put forward. Well done and thank you for expressing the views of the majority of TCs.

[BirKibrisli]

Talking about violations of GC rights...What do you think is happening in Cyprus as we speak? How easy it is for people to forget that there were 2 partners in the RoC Republic and one has been missing for since 1963...Where are our rights accorded under the 1960 agreements...do you also think the TCs simply walked away to advance the Partition cause of Denktas...??? You say the GCs have total control of the RoC legally...That has been the GC argument for ages...Do you as a TC believe that?? You see nothing wrong with the way the TCs lost their share of power in the RoC? do you also think it was all their fault??? Does any moral arguments come in here???

Of course I'm not happy that the TCs are not in the RoC government and how the TCs left/was pushed out, is no longer the issue, because it has been decided by powers to be based on International Laws, that the RoC has full legal and legitimate power over all of it's territory, so it is pointless to ascertain what I believe in or what it ought to be, because I can't change anything. We have to deal with the reality and the reality is what it is. Part of the TCs not having any legitimacy and legality has to do with the creation of the "trnc". It is in fact the "trnc" that lacks the legality and the legitimacy and not the TCs themselves, but since the TCs live in the north, then it becomes one and the same. What would happen if the TCs said to the RoC, "OK, we will dismantle the "trnc" and would like to be part of the RoC". I do not think the RoC can refuse to accept such an offer and the TCs may even get all the conditions of the 1960's constitution, including Turkey's guarantor power.

Now, the RoC will say to the TCs, "well, that is great, but we already have an agreement to find a solution under BBF and that's what we want, but if you want to go back to the old RoC, then we still need to open the constitution to bring it up to date now that we are in the EU". It is possible that compromises still need to be made, but it is also possible for the guarantor ship to remain in place for x number of years despite what Kifeas believes that the UN charter overrides such an arrangement. I just don't believe the GCs are going to agree to have 2 states under BBF, rotating presidency and let Turkey to remain in Cyprus. What do the GCs get in return other than some land, is my question to you.? So to answer your question, under International Laws, the GCs Human Rights are violated by being cleansed from their properties in the north by Turkey and many UN resolutions back this violations. Whether it is right or wrong or what I think is pointless to discuss, because we need to focus on the realities on the ground, and the reality is, the RoC has all the rights and the north does not...............period.!

I am not interested in what the powers that be decided,Kikapu. I am interested in what you believe...Please don't fob me off with "it is no longer the issue". For a lot of TCs it is still very much the issue...I know what you believe can't change anything,but it can change the way some TCs consider your position,if you answered that question....

I too often wondered what would happen if the TCs demanded back their rights under the 1960 constitution...But I also wonder this :why hasn't the GCs invited the TCs to return to the RoC in all this time...???

What would the GCs get in return apart from some land,you ask...

They will get an interim solution which will see most of the settlers repatriated....They will get a great reduction in the Turkish soldier numbers....A lot of GC refugees will get the satisfaction of returning to their ancestral homes...And they will get a lot of goodwill and respect from the TCs...And this will be a new beginning for Cyprus hopefully leading to True cooperation,True federation with full democracy and human rights as you are demanding...

Now I begin to scratch my head again ,Kikapu...There will soon be no skin left on my head...
You are repeating the GC reactionary nationalist line that everything about the RoC is legal and everything about the trnc is illegal....You say that is the reality...and we must accept it...You forget there is another reality for the TCs...A reality which has lasted since 1974...They have their own state,guarded by 40,000 Turkish soldiers,where they have survived ,if not prospered,despite all the embargoes and isolation measures imposed by the whole world at the request of their GC compatriots...And they don't give a damn whether they fully assimilate into the greater Turkish society and culture or not...Now what are we going to do with that reality????

[Pyrpolizer]

paliometoxo

No im all for unification and equal rights i dont hate tcs i hate mainland turkish army and the turkish government for being in cyprus and occupying our land.. maybe you might take offence to that but a number of tcs would agree with what i say about the army and the mainland turks. i am all for peace and no lines and passports to walk from one side of the country to the other.

You are for unficaiton as long as it is on GC terms which is to take away our community rights and reduce us to minority at the mercy of the GCs who only aim is to take the whole island and turn it into a GC state run by GCs, we will become foreigners in our own country.

Why would the army go before fnding a solution you are asking us to get rid of our security for what?

Passports are needed to control who goes in and out of our country.

I have friends from the north side and even some from turkey i used to know who they did not care about the cy problem and the ones in cyprus agree with me that the army should go home ..etc

Why should they go so you do what ever you want? we will not get rid of our security and safety until there is a solution which guarantees the exact same.

if i was a tc hater i would not have any friends from the north i would never cross over..

Maybe you want to spy and that you are not sincere in your friendship who knows, maybe you are taking information from these people and giving it to your leaders, maybe you want to sue them.

your the one promoting hate against cypritos and love for two states and more hate..

It only appears that way becuase you do not want to hear the truth, the 2 state solution is also supported by the UN and your leaders so you better get used to it because its the only offer thats on the table.

well people can pass from north to south and there is no problems after all these years and open gates everything is ok.. just because you have to show passport it means it stops the violence?

The controls stops the violence as they all know they are on record and if anything happened they would be held accountable so they behave when they visit the other side. No control plenty of violence not worth the risk.

if there is partition and the army goes home what would stop gcs from crossing and killing you people any more then if they would with a re unified land as you claim

The border and the Turkish guarantee just in case you did anything so stupid. Thats why we cannot agree a solution without these guarantees because you are conditioned to get rid of the army so you can do as wish and attack us once again.

I wonder whether Bir would care comment on all these repeatitive provocations

[Malapapa]

You say the new conditions for the next "marriage" will be chosen by the people themselves...Yet,you want to force the TCs to drop Turkey's guarantees and adopt your full democracy principles...Why? Is it only a GC prerogative to refuse to accept terms of an agreement (even after signing them!)? will you be equally forgiving of the TCs if and when they say they did not agree to such and such but had no choice but sign at the time??? What's good for the goose????

Bir, there is no GC hand that has the nerve to sign an agreement that will bestow unilateral intervention rights to Turkey, in the form of guarantees as we came to know them from the 1960 agreements between Greece, Turkey and the UK. There are reasons for that, and I am sure you know them all, but let me repeat them here once more.

1. Turkey is not a stable democracy, with a healthy political culture and system. It cannot guarantee its own peoples’ human, social and political rights. Turkey needs other countries to guarantee its own peoples’ human, cultural and political rights (see what happens with the Kurds and other minorities,) and it is very provocatively rich from her part, and that of the TCs, to demand that such a country should have unilateral interventions rights into another country, an EU member as a matter of fact, with a much healthier political culture than her own. That the RoC, as it stands today, has a much healthier political culture, I am not the one saying so but all international ratings in all relevant aspects and areas of concern.

2. Turkey had used once these hypothetical intervention rights, and it failed miserably to protect the human rights, constitutional order and sovereignty of Cyprus. Its intervention, in the form of invasion and occupation, evidently created a situation much worse than the one it supposedly came to rectify, and we all experience these results as of this day.

3. Cyprus is a sovereign country, just like Turkey, and a member of the UN and the EU as of 2004. If one sovereign country claims to retain the right to unilaterally intervene into another sovereign state, without this being valid in retrospect, then the principle of sovereign equality between UN members, as it is safeguarded by the UN Charter (article 2, par.1,) is nullified. Such a notion, i.e. that one sovereign country has the right to essentially invade another one at will -as long as there is some pre-text, outside any UN SC mandate, goes against the most fundamental principle based on which the UN was founded. Furthermore, Cyprus being a member of the EU, such a notion goes against the principles based on which the EU exists; more so when it extends to a country that is not even an EU member state itself.

If the Turkish side insists on this anachronistic and essentially illegal under international law provision, then I am afraid there will be no solution. Now, if there will be no solution, all sides stand to lose, including the GC one. However, I happen to believe that the TC side and Turkey are the sides that stand to lose the more, in the long run. Occupation and retention of northern Cyprus by Turkey will indeed become the biggest “white Elephant” example in the modern history, even after the last TC will vanish from the annals of history. I frankly suggest that if indeed the TCs and Turkey are interested in a solution, they should try and find other ways to address the issue of security of the TCs, from the hands of the bloodthirsty GCs -i.e. from the hands of those that many of them seek medical treatment on a daily basis. There are many ways to address this area of concern for the TCs, such as in the form of a mixed local and international force that will include Greece and Turkey, but in which no one country alone will have the right to take unilateral action. We are open to all proposals, BUT one which will allow Turkey to think or believe it has the legitimacy to repeat what it did in 1974 and afterwards.

And since you used the mariage example, no one in his right senses accepts to enter into a marriage relationship, in which the mother-in-law or the father-in-law will have the keys of the bedroom and the right to permanetly station themselves there, when the couble goes in bed every night. If you are ready to accept such a marriage, then so be it, but we are not. It goes against our dignity.

In short you want a free hand to do as you please, even to rape and batter your partner in the bedroom with the inlaws tied up and powerless to do stop the aggression. You GCs need to feel the breath of Turkey on your necks as you will not behave, the last 36 years are clear testiment to this fact.

In short you are indeed an odious gangster, who insists on a ruthless armed security force to hand, to protect all your ill-gotten interests. Forget it. The long arm of the law is reaching out to get you.