Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

I happen to believe that for a lasting peace we need to have mutual understanding

.......and selling of g/c properites

[BirKibrisli]

I would say the same thing to Bananiot,if I was talking to him Kikapu...
Because he only criticises the GC position,he too has neutralised himself in GC eyes...But we are talking about you here...It is a great thing that you moved on...But where have you moved on to??? You have moved onto exactly where the GC position is...Lets forget about the past,look only to the future...The problem is simply one of Turkish occupation..The TCs have been working hand in hand with Turkey from way back to achieve partition...They have ethnically cleansed us from the North...The TCs moved to the North as part of this great plan to achieve partition...Is this where you moved on to???Do you believe all that???Because by remaining silent when that is repeated ad nauseum on this Forum,you give it approval and credibility...

But Bir, you haven't said it to Bananiot and neither has any other TC, including me. I know you only want to talk about me, and we will, but it is important to establish credibility and honesty to you concerns about me in criticising the TC side over the GC side. It sounds to me like in what you are saying to me is, "do as I say and not as I do" or "what's good for the goose, it is NOT good for the gander".! If you wanted to be objective, you could at least equate Bananiot and me as two linesman each guarding only half of the football pitch , but instead you want to put me in a position of a referee to be responsible for the whole pitch. Being "neutralised" is not the issue here, what ever that means btw, because if someone doesn't want to hear what you have to say that does not fit into their own ideals, the messenger will always get the blame, hence the phrase "hey, don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger". But he will be "shot" all the same because not everyone is going to like the message.

Now, lets talk about me. You say that I have moved towards the "GC position", what does that mean.? I consider myself as a Cypriot first and then a TC, as I've done the same in Britain and the US. I align myself with others based on political ideology and not based on ethnic lines when it comes to politics.. Your own views had been very much same as mine for the last 3 years, so what are you saying, that you were taking on the GCs position and not your own political ideology.? Don't get me wrong, it is OK for one to change their political position, even it means 180° turn. It happens on occasions from time to time in politics. I consider myself as a Democrat and do not agree with the points of view of Republicans on many issues, because of political ideology, so I criticize them and they citizen me because of what they believe in, which is different than mine. Welcome to Democracy of political ideology of different spectrums.

We all know that Enosis and Taksim was in the works in Cyprus after the 1960 "independence" of Cyprus, and in order to achieve that, there had to have been plans for both sides which varied in style and tactics. What you described above is a very plausible plan to achieve Taksim and it worked, has it not, as Taksim crossed the finishing line in 1974 before Enosis could, but then again, according to a post made by Bananiot few days ago, he clearly showed in a speech made by Makarios in 1968 stating that the Enosis dream was over in 1968, therefore Taksim was the only "horse" in the race from 1968-1974 era.

You are not answering my questions,Kikapu....You are side stepping them and giving me generalised summary of the official GC position.... I will make it easy for you...I will ask you very specific questions and expect very specific answers,without drowning them in well know GC propaganda...

1...do you believe the core of the Cyprus problem was a desire by Turkey to expand her territories????

2...Do you think the TC climb into the enclaves in 1963 was simply to open the way for Turkish occupation??? They had no legitimate fears for their lives????

3...Would you consider the TC move into enclaves as "ethnic cleansing"?
Or does that only apply to the GC expulsion from the North???

Let us get your honest opinion on these points...You do not of course have to answer these questions....You can simply say it is none of my business...But ,please, don't side step them again and pretend to answer...

[BirKibrisli]

It is great that you moved on..But have the average GC moved on from 1974??? have most of the people who post here moved on??? How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma???I will ask you again...What is the point of harping on about democracy,human rights,EU principles etc when you know that neither the GCs nor the TCs are ready for such a great leep??? How does that bring us nearer to a solution...I understand that it might give the GCs a sense of moral and intellectual superiority over the TCs...could it be that it serves the same purpose for you???

Have the GCs moved on from the 1974 events, you ask.? The answer is a YES and NO.! Yes they have moved on with the help of their recognition as the sole legitimate government in Cyprus to rebuild their lives, the RoC in the south, the economy, political power in the form of becoming a EU member, gaining legal victories in the ECJ and the ECHR while the north remained stagnant in all those areas since 1974. The second part of the answer is, No, they have not moved on, because for them, 1974 event was the very last event to have occurred in the history of events in Cyprus and it is still continuing today when it was declared by Denktash after the events of 1974 that the Cyprus problems were now over. For the GCs, the war is not over and they will use everything and anything they can to have a say so over the whole island along with all Cypriots and not have the north "gifted" to the TCs to become a "Turkish State" for the partition to continue. I am happy that they want to agree on a BBF based on True Federation, Democracy and EU principles to safeguard all Cypriots rights to be treated as equal citizens and still have the north majority as TCs and the south majority as GCs, but under one country, one citizenship and one nation where everyone can still call the whole island as their own country, much like how all Americans call the USA their home, despite there being 50 Federal states in the USA.

The TCs may not be ready for Democracy and Human Rights and EU principles, but the GCs are in my view. Cyprus being in the EU, the Democracy and Human Rights cannot be ignored nor can it be altered to please one side at the expense of the other. It is these principles that the TCs should see them as their protection from the days of the past, but their leaders are not telling them this, but instead telling them to become more like Turks than Cypriots by forcing them to change their names, calling them "Turks of Cyprus", "TCs and Motherland Turks are one and the same and so is their policy towards the GCs" "the north must remain an separate state otherwise all our efforts have been in vein for all those who died to achieve it (Taksim)". It is these rhetoric that does not inspire the TCs to past beyond their past horrific experiences, because their leaders are still harping on Taksim to them because they had already crossed the finishing line back in 1974. This is their land now and it must remain "Turkish". Let me ask you, Bir, how can most TCs can move forward when their own leaders are holding them back. How can the GCs help them in any way to over come their fears when their own leaders are not doing it because United Cyprus is not where their hearts are, but the continued struggle of Taksim is. This is why I'm very happy for the RoC being in the EU which can help heal the TCs fears from the GCs and the fact that thousands are crossing the divided line each day for all purposes without any major incidents is a good thing.

An agreement based on a Fair & Just settlement based on Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles is what will protect the TCs and not lack of them, as the case was in 1960 constitution, just because it was never meant to protect anyone, but only help those to achieve Enosis and Taksim, and in the end, even though Taksim had crossed the finishing line first, it can hardly be called a victory for the TCs. It has been in fact a "White Elephant" for them and the last 36 years is the proof. It is time to be part of the 21st century, or else they will be left behind to become extinct in the flood of the settlers, even though that is a welcome to some TCs than uniting with the GCs. Foe some, the Taksim struggle continues, and no matter how much I can try to tell them otherwise, it will fall on deaf ears. Those people are beyond reach to accept Unified Cyprus with the above principles I have already mentioned. They are all too happy to do without them and become part of Turkey, as they think annexation will take place, which I do not think that can ever happen, because that's not what Turkey wants, because that will not help Turkey in anyway to become a EU member or influence EU policies through the TCs in a United Cyprus under the terms of what AP had, which was a Confederation. That will not happen either. You may call it being a GS position that I'm taking, but for me, it is being able to see both sides of the Chess board and where the pieces are and able to see the game 3 moves ahead of your own pieces and your opponent’s. Cyprus has been nothing but a chess game for the past 60+ years and the game is still on going. A settlement based on the above principles is what is going to take to finish this game. The question is, are the TCs and the GCs willing to call it a draw and start a fresh game of Unified Cyprus with everyone’s rights protected as equal citizens. It remains to be seen, but it is my hope.!

PS. I'll try to keep answers to your other posts short, otherwise I'll never get to answer them this year.!

And I wil lpay particular attention to this section because my good friend,Pyro,has asked me to....My apologies at the start if it takes too long...

So you seem to see nothing wrong with the fact that the RoC government
has been wrestled from the TCs and that was accepted by the powers that be...According to the average TC the RoC govenment is not legitimate,it has got the blood of many innocent people on its hands...Do you believe,Kikapu,that those TC ministers and MPs really had a choice but run away to safety in those heady days of our little conflict...???Did you really expect them to just return to the GC section of Nicosia where the Parliament was,when TC patients were being taken from their sick beds and shot and thrown away like rubbish???? When the villages of Atlilar,Murataga and Sandallar were massacred by rampaging GC thugs and all that could not get away were slaughtered??? do you buy the GC argument that they just walked away to advance Denktash's Taksim cause???

You are also totally at home with the fact that the GCs have not moved on from the 74 events,though you yourself have moved on from the 63 -74 events,and could see no reason why the TCs should not move on either...
do you really believe that those TCs who have moved to the North have had closure??? They found their little paradise and have been living happily ever after???There might be over 1500 missing GCs but we here little about the 550 TCs who have been missing...do you think their families have had closure??? Or is it that you think they had a choice in the matter..?.They could've refused to move and stay in their villages and towns in the South,at the heat of the 74 events??? You do not seem to show any empathy at all with these people'continuing plight...You must know that the TC exodus have continued after 74 and is continuing as we speak...Most of the members of the younger generation from my family, and from a lot of families I know, have been going to study abroad and not returning...Why do you think that is??? Do you think the TCs care less for their children than the GCs??? Are the TCs less family oriented than the rest of Cypriots, to tell their children not to come back???

where are these GCs who have agreed to have a BBF based on True Federation,democratic values and EU principles etc???All I see on this forum are people who keep talking about not giving one inch to bloody,bloodsucking Turks and TCs,and promising to wait till doomsday or till the balance of power changes to start their all out war...And all I see is you pretending that they dont exist,not lifting a finger to do anything about it...Is it because you too agree with them??? Do you see any goodwill on this forum (with notable exemptions of course which do not change the rule)towards the TCs??? Why are you so selective in turning a blind eye and deaf ear to all the insults and name calling that goes on day in day out??? why do you remain silent when most GCs here practice their trade of "blaming the victim"??? Or is it that you don't see the TC community as the biggest victims in this bloody conflict? I am truly puzzled ,Kikapu...when my blood boils each time I see the GC revisionists at work,twisting and turning eveything to fit it into their new found love of democracy and human rights etc,accusing all Turks and TCs for every evil that befell on Cyprus,you seem to come along and reinforce their position with identical arguments...I give some the benefit of the doubt and say "they know not what they are saying" but I cannot find the same excuse for you...

(to be continued...)

[YFred]

It is great that you moved on..But have the average GC moved on from 1974??? have most of the people who post here moved on??? How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma???I will ask you again...What is the point of harping on about democracy,human rights,EU principles etc when you know that neither the GCs nor the TCs are ready for such a great leep??? How does that bring us nearer to a solution...I understand that it might give the GCs a sense of moral and intellectual superiority over the TCs...could it be that it serves the same purpose for you???

Have the GCs moved on from the 1974 events, you ask.? The answer is a YES and NO.! Yes they have moved on with the help of their recognition as the sole legitimate government in Cyprus to rebuild their lives, the RoC in the south, the economy, political power in the form of becoming a EU member, gaining legal victories in the ECJ and the ECHR while the north remained stagnant in all those areas since 1974. The second part of the answer is, No, they have not moved on, because for them, 1974 event was the very last event to have occurred in the history of events in Cyprus and it is still continuing today when it was declared by Denktash after the events of 1974 that the Cyprus problems were now over. For the GCs, the war is not over and they will use everything and anything they can to have a say so over the whole island along with all Cypriots and not have the north "gifted" to the TCs to become a "Turkish State" for the partition to continue. I am happy that they want to agree on a BBF based on True Federation, Democracy and EU principles to safeguard all Cypriots rights to be treated as equal citizens and still have the north majority as TCs and the south majority as GCs, but under one country, one citizenship and one nation where everyone can still call the whole island as their own country, much like how all Americans call the USA their home, despite there being 50 Federal states in the USA.

The TCs may not be ready for Democracy and Human Rights and EU principles, but the GCs are in my view. Cyprus being in the EU, the Democracy and Human Rights cannot be ignored nor can it be altered to please one side at the expense of the other. It is these principles that the TCs should see them as their protection from the days of the past, but their leaders are not telling them this, but instead telling them to become more like Turks than Cypriots by forcing them to change their names, calling them "Turks of Cyprus", "TCs and Motherland Turks are one and the same and so is their policy towards the GCs" "the north must remain an separate state otherwise all our efforts have been in vein for all those who died to achieve it (Taksim)". It is these rhetoric that does not inspire the TCs to past beyond their past horrific experiences, because their leaders are still harping on Taksim to them because they had already crossed the finishing line back in 1974. This is their land now and it must remain "Turkish". Let me ask you, Bir, how can most TCs can move forward when their own leaders are holding them back. How can the GCs help them in any way to over come their fears when their own leaders are not doing it because United Cyprus is not where their hearts are, but the continued struggle of Taksim is. This is why I'm very happy for the RoC being in the EU which can help heal the TCs fears from the GCs and the fact that thousands are crossing the divided line each day for all purposes without any major incidents is a good thing.

An agreement based on a Fair & Just settlement based on Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles is what will protect the TCs and not lack of them, as the case was in 1960 constitution, just because it was never meant to protect anyone, but only help those to achieve Enosis and Taksim, and in the end, even though Taksim had crossed the finishing line first, it can hardly be called a victory for the TCs. It has been in fact a "White Elephant" for them and the last 36 years is the proof. It is time to be part of the 21st century, or else they will be left behind to become extinct in the flood of the settlers, even though that is a welcome to some TCs than uniting with the GCs. Foe some, the Taksim struggle continues, and no matter how much I can try to tell them otherwise, it will fall on deaf ears. Those people are beyond reach to accept Unified Cyprus with the above principles I have already mentioned. They are all too happy to do without them and become part of Turkey, as they think annexation will take place, which I do not think that can ever happen, because that's not what Turkey wants, because that will not help Turkey in anyway to become a EU member or influence EU policies through the TCs in a United Cyprus under the terms of what AP had, which was a Confederation. That will not happen either. You may call it being a GS position that I'm taking, but for me, it is being able to see both sides of the Chess board and where the pieces are and able to see the game 3 moves ahead of your own pieces and your opponent’s. Cyprus has been nothing but a chess game for the past 60+ years and the game is still on going. A settlement based on the above principles is what is going to take to finish this game. The question is, are the TCs and the GCs willing to call it a draw and start a fresh game of Unified Cyprus with everyone’s rights protected as equal citizens. It remains to be seen, but it is my hope.!

PS. I'll try to keep answers to your other posts short, otherwise I'll never get to answer them this year.!

And I wil lpay particular attention to this section because my good friend,Pyro,has asked me to....My apologies at the start if it takes too long...

So you seem to see nothing wrong with the fact that the RoC government
has been wrestled from the TCs and that was accepted by the powers that be...According to the average TC the RoC govenment is not legitimate,it has got the blood of many innocent people on its hands...Do you believe,Kikapu,that those TC ministers and MPs really had a choice but run away to safety in those heady days of our little conflict...???Did you really expect them to just return to the GC section of Nicosia where the Parliament was,when TC patients were being taken from their sick beds and shot and thrown away like rubbish???? When the villages of Atlilar,Murataga and Sandallar were massacred by rampaging GC thugs and all that could not get away were slaughtered??? do you buy the GC argument that they just walked away to advance Denktash's Taksim cause???

You are also totally at home with the fact that the GCs have not moved on from the 74 events,though you yourself have moved on from the 63 -74 events,and could see no reason why the TCs should not move on either...
do you really believe that those TCs who have moved to the North have had closure??? They found their little paradise and have been living happily ever after???There might be over 1500 missing GCs but we here little about the 550 TCs who have been missing...do you think their families have had closure??? Or is it that you think they had a choice in the matter..?.They could've refused to move and stay in their villages and towns in the South,at the heat of the 74 events??? You do not seem to show any empathy at all with these people'continuing plight...You must know that the TC exodus have continued after 74 and is continuing as we speak...Most of the members of the younger generation from my family, and from a lot of families I know, have been going to study abroad and not returning...Why do you think that is??? Do you think the TCs care less for their children than the GCs??? Are the TCs less family oriented than the rest of Cypriots, to tell their children not to come back???

where are these GCs who have agreed to have a BBF based on True Federation,democratic values and EU principles etc???All I see on this forum are people who keep talking about not giving one inch to bloody,bloodsucking Turks and TCs,and promising to wait till doomsday or till the balance of power changes to start their all out war...And all I see is you pretending that they dont exist,not lifting a finger to do anything about it...Is it because you too agree with them??? Do you see any goodwill on this forum (with notable exemptions of course which do not change the rule)towards the TCs??? Why are you so selective in turning a blind eye and deaf ear to all the insults and name calling that goes on day in day out??? why do you remain silent when most GCs here practice their trade of "blaming the victim"??? Or is it that you don't see the TC community as the biggest victims in this bloody conflict? I am truly puzzled ,Kikapu...when my blood boils each time I see the GC revisionists at work,twisting and turning eveything to fit it into their new found love of democracy and human rights etc,accusing all Turks and TCs for every evil that befell on Cyprus,you seem to come along and reinforce their position with identical arguments...I give some the benefit of the doubt and say "they know not what they are saying" but I cannot find the same excuse for you...

(to be continued...)

Bir you forgot to ask whether name calling is contagious and who did he catch it from? Oracle, GR or one of his other patriot friends.

[BirKibrisli]

The TCs may not be ready for Democracy and Human Rights and EU principles, but the GCs are in my view. Cyprus being in the EU, the Democracy and Human Rights cannot be ignored nor can it be altered to please one side at the expense of the other. It is these principles that the TCs should see them as their protection from the days of the past, but their leaders are not telling them this, but instead telling them to become more like Turks than Cypriots by forcing them to change their names, calling them "Turks of Cyprus", "TCs and Motherland Turks are one and the same and so is their policy towards the GCs" "the north must remain an separate state otherwise all our efforts have been in vein for all those who died to achieve it (Taksim)". It is these rhetoric that does not inspire the TCs to past beyond their past horrific experiences, because their leaders are still harping on Taksim to them because they had already crossed the finishing line back in 1974. This is their land now and it must remain "Turkish". Let me ask you, Bir, how can most TCs can move forward when their own leaders are holding them back. How can the GCs help them in any way to over come their fears when their own leaders are not doing it because United Cyprus is not where their hearts are, but the continued struggle of Taksim is. This is why I'm very happy for the RoC being in the EU which can help heal the TCs fears from the GCs and the fact that thousands are crossing the divided line each day for all purposes without any major incidents is a good thing.

That is wishful thinking on your part,Kikapu..How can you say the GCs are ready for all that (democracy,human rights,EU principles etc) when a few paragraphs away you have admitted that the GCs have not moved on and are still suffering from the emotional stresses and traumas of the 74 events??? do you seriously believe existence of any principle or any law will be enough to protect a minority from the wrath of a bitter and resentment- filled majority???
Just close your eyes and think for a minute.I am not sugesting here that blood will flow on the streets....But think of tens of thousands of TCs living in the South or tens of thousands of GCs living in the North...Without long and painstaking efforts to heal the emotional scars ,do you think people will treat the "other" properly,with fairness and equality in all walks of life...??? You must be dreaming...

You know how I feel about the Turkification of the North and the assimilation of the TCs into the mainland Turkish culture... But again,in reality what choice do the TCs have...??? They have been stripped of their political power by the GCs,put into an open prison by Turkey and told to become better Turks and Moslems,what realistically are their options...??? What messages are they getting from the GCs??? I will tell you from my experiences on this forum...You have no right to be in this country...You are the remnants of those who oppressed us for so long...This island is a Greek island and will always remain so...But since we cannot salughter you any longer in this democratic day and age with EU looking on,we will forgive you and let you live with us,if you kick Turkey in the tooth and surrender yourselves to our majority rule...This is the overwhelming sentiment of the GCs on this forum...Again with notable exceptions which do not change the rule...
And i will say this: people posting on this forum are the more educated,more enlightened GCs and TCs...The attitude of the "average" GC and TC is likely to me much more rigid and prejudiced and untempered...

I don't think the TCs leaders are holding them back,Kikapu,any more than the GC leaders are holding back the GCs...By nature our "leaders" are really our followers...They are only worried about the next election.They ride the mood of the people,if they are any good,and say the things their voters want to hear...In the trnc of course there is the added complication of the settlers,and the need to "coordinate" all responses with Turkey...The GCs can help the TCs overcome some of their fears by accepting their part in the conflict and showing empathy and compassion...And you can encourage them to do so by talking about some of their past and present shortcomings...They are doing the opposite as you know,at least on this forum,and I see no concrete measures in real life either...As time goes on and the divide,both physically and psychologically gets larger.The opening of the gates might have now become a negative...People visiting their old homes,and realising there is no way they can go back to their old lives...I can feel an acceptance,somewhat reluctantly perhaps,that the best Cypriots can expect is to live side by side,and enjoy the benefits of good neighbours,instead of putting up with the negatives of living together as partners...This is not how I feel or what I want,but the reality on the ground...The EU is essentially an economic partnership,Kikapu...It works well amongst people who have overcome most of their historical differences and moved on...It is not equipped to deal with national or ethnic conflicts which have been simmering for a long time...And democracy is only as good as the people who are running it...By putting all your eggs ion those two baskets you run the risk of getting ahead of everyone,and becoming part of the problem,not the solution...If you get my meaning...

(to be continued...)

[B25]

@bir

blah blah Blah empathy, compassion Blah blah, TC victims blah blah, GC evil barstards blah blah,.

God change the record, you show none of that which you demand from us. Your cronies VP, Yjocks, Insan (where is he by btw) and other do a good enough job insulting us, and laughing in our faces, yet you don't seem to come to 'save' us.

You are a fake Bir, there was a time I really wanted to trust you, but the more I read your posts the more I understand you are waiting for me to turn my back.

You have the cheek to 'try' and pick on Kiks, he must be the most consistant person here, he states his case how he sees it should be, not in any GC favour, but the way it should be because you have become all criminals with your leaders leading into ever more copprution in an attempt to keep your spoils of war.

if you were half the man Kiks is, I would bow to you, but you are full of shit just like the rest of your cronies here.

I could just write everything you did and replace the word Kikapu with Bananiot, then what?

Remember what you told me in the past, a true friend tells you what you don't want to hear. perhaps Kiks is more of a friend to the TCs than you realise.

Oh, and when you little bitch VP was making death threats on another thread, I didn't see you come in to condemn her. Bloody hypocrit.

Even when we achieve justice through the courts we are still the bad ones on your eyes so really there is NOTHING we can do right for you. Just keep up your good work, you may just get the partition you hope for, then you will be well and truely F...ed.

Kiks is not insupport of the GCs, he is in support of law, order, democracy, human rights and a sense of fairness. it just so happens to be what the GCs support. You on the otherhand do not support these things, but corruptness, illegalities, ethnic cleansing, genocide, illegal occupation and usurpation of GC lands, rape, murders and a whole host more.

I don't blame Kiks for not wanting to associate himself with you guys, whether he is a true TC or not. So you can keep your sorry ass excuses, we heard them all before, we are not giving in to your rediculous demands and we will use every legal method at our disposal, as we are internationally recognised, what are you??

Have a nice day too!

[Btw, Kiks doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him, he is well capabale of dealing with ANY of you guys, I just wanted to say my piece]

[YFred]

@bir

blah blah Blah empathy, compassion Blah blah, TC victims blah blah, GC evil barstards blah blah,.

God change the record, you show none of that which you demand from us. Your cronies VP, Yjocks, Insan (where is he by btw) and other do a good enough job insulting us, and laughing in our faces, yet you don't seem to come to 'save' us.

You are a fake Bir, there was a time I really wanted to trust you, but the more I read your posts the more I understand you are waiting for me to turn my back.

You have the cheek to 'try' and pick on Kiks, he must be the most consistant person here, he states his case how he sees it should be, not in any GC favour, but the way it should be because you have become all criminals with your leaders leading into ever more copprution in an attempt to keep your spoils of war.

if you were half the man Kiks is, I would bow to you, but you are full of shit just like the rest of your cronies here.

I could just write everything you did and replace the word Kikapu with Bananiot, then what?

Remember what you told me in the past, a true friend tells you what you don't want to hear. perhaps Kiks is more of a friend to the TCs than you realise.

Oh, and when you little bitch VP was making death threats on another thread, I didn't see you come in to condemn her. Bloody hypocrit.

Even when we achieve justice through the courts we are still the bad ones on your eyes so really there is NOTHING we can do right for you. Just keep up your good work, you may just get the partition you hope for, then you will be well and truely F...ed.

Kiks is not insupport of the GCs, he is in support of law, order, democracy, human rights and a sense of fairness. it just so happens to be what the GCs support. You on the otherhand do not support these things, but corruptness, illegalities, ethnic cleansing, genocide, illegal occupation and usurpation of GC lands, rape, murders and a whole host more.

I don't blame Kiks for not wanting to associate himself with you guys, whether he is a true TC or not. So you can keep your sorry ass excuses, we heard them all before, we are not giving in to your rediculous demands and we will use every legal method at our disposal, as we are internationally recognised, what are you??

Have a nice day too!

[Btw, Kiks doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him, he is well capabale of dealing with ANY of you guys, I just wanted to say my piece]

In my defense, I have never insulted anybody who did not insult me first.
I also deny laughing in anybody's face. It is not in my nature. Although if they are ugly inside out like oracle you and the rest of the GC patriots I may not be able to help myself.
However I will admit to have a jolly outlook in life and will attempt to see the funny side of any nastiness as much as possible but sensitively, unlike you gays, ohps done it again.

[Pyrpolizer]

I believe Turkey exercised her rights to intervene in 1974 when the coup happened because that's what she signed up to do. In fact, she should have intervened much earlier in 1963 when the TCs were no longer in the RoC government, then just perhaps, we wouldn’t have had the crises in 1974 and today would be a different Cyprus. So the question I have is, why didn't they.? By not doing so in 1963, Turkey had already violated her own signature to be a guarantor for the whole island. It is beyond me as to why she did not do that. So in short, Turkey had failed her duties to protect the TCs and the GCs as well as restoring the government. Do you have any ideas Bir, as to why Turkey did not intervene in 1963.?

Excellent question. Besides the Guarantor powers were supposed to intervene only for the purpose of securing the Constitutional Order. Not for doing ethnic cleansing… 1963 was clearly a constitutional disorder.

I personally don’t know the answer to your above question Kikapu. I tend to agree with your speculations, however only a historian who will study in depth the sitution in Turkey, Greece, Cyprus as well as the role of UK/USA during that period could perhaps give a safe answer. I will have a look at my records from the CyprusConflict web side to see if I could find something.

[YFred]

I believe Turkey exercised her rights to intervene in 1974 when the coup happened because that's what she signed up to do. In fact, she should have intervened much earlier in 1963 when the TCs were no longer in the RoC government, then just perhaps, we wouldn’t have had the crises in 1974 and today would be a different Cyprus. So the question I have is, why didn't they.? By not doing so in 1963, Turkey had already violated her own signature to be a guarantor for the whole island. It is beyond me as to why she did not do that. So in short, Turkey had failed her duties to protect the TCs and the GCs as well as restoring the government. Do you have any ideas Bir, as to why Turkey did not intervene in 1963.?

Excellent question. Besides the Guarantor powers were supposed to intervene only for the purpose of securing the Constitutional Order. Not for doing ethnic cleansing…

I personally don’t know the answer to your above question Kikapu. I tend to agree with your speculations, however only a historian who will study in depth the sitution in Turkey, Greece, Cyprus as well as the role of UK/USA during that period could perhaps give a safe answer. I will have a look at my records from the CyprusConflict web side to see if I could find something.

Why bother. The answer is staring you in the eye. USA said no. Simple. There can be no other explanation.

[Pyrpolizer]

All this hot air and very long post by Kikapu has anyone spotted just one pro TC stance or one criticism against the GC stance, throws his credibility right out of the window.

Thank god we have the TRNC and crazies like Kikapu are diaspora and will die there.

Yes I have and I congratulated him for that. He said Turkey should intervene in 1963. Look at my previous post.

But some of you guys (GCs and TCs alike) are so lazy, that only read and reply to one liners.