Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

I am stating how it is in the hijacked "RoC" and the natural process that TCs would face against an all GC panel who are racist and vegence seeking, can you prove that they did not evluate the candidate in this manner, no you cannot so why expose us to double standards and disappointment when we already know we do not stand a chnace in your GC state.

He probably get one field a week....now do you want the job?

VP, you are truelly talking rubbish, you are just looking for excuse after excuse to claim your partition dreams.

Look, when I worked in Nicosia, i had 2 TCs working for me, they used to travel all the way from Kyrenia, they would many times arrive late for work, I would always cut them slack over the other GCs / foreign workers, in fact I took these boys under my wing believe it or not. Your arguement is flawed, I know because I have been in a position to employ TCs and others. the ones suited to the job got it, whoever he was.

please don't keep going on about how we would shit all over the TCs, it is totally bollocks you are talking.

[boulio]

You made them come all the way from kyrenia,you did not move your company to kyrania to save them the travel?

How dare you?

This is what turks and certain t/c want and believe they are entitled to.Its a ottoman mentality.

[Pyrpolizer]

I am stating how it is in the hijacked "RoC" and the natural process that TCs would face against an all GC panel who are racist and vegence seeking, can you prove that they did not evluate the candidate in this manner, no you cannot so why expose us to double standards and disappointment when we already know we do not stand a chnace in your GC state.

He probably get one field a week....now do you want the job?

No they are working non stop. In the begining they had a very old lorry, and a small excavator which was always braking down. In fact the first time i met them they asked me for help to find them a mechanic. I had no idea they were TCs.... Now they have bought new bigger ones. (Do you know how much an excavator and a truck costs?? Can you buy one by just making 1-2 thousand Euros profit per month?)

Btw I have already answered to Bir, that given the fact that we have no solution yet and our rights are still been violated by the Occupation regime, it wouldn't be safe for THOUSANDS of TCs to live among the GCs.
If the occupation regime collapses, or if we find a solution that will give us back our rights, i guarantee you it will be safe.

[Viewpoint]

I am stating how it is in the hijacked "RoC" and the natural process that TCs would face against an all GC panel who are racist and vegence seeking, can you prove that they did not evluate the candidate in this manner, no you cannot so why expose us to double standards and disappointment when we already know we do not stand a chnace in your GC state.

He probably get one field a week....now do you want the job?

No they are working non stop. In the begining they had a very old lorry, and a small excavator which was always braking down. In fact the first time i met them they asked me for help to find them a mechanic. I had no idea they were TCs.... Now they have bought new bigger ones. (Do you know how much an excavator and a truck costs?? Can you buy one by just making 1-2 thousand Euros profit per month?)

Btw I have already answered to Bir, that given the fact that we have no solution yet and our rights are still been violated by the Occupation regime, it wouldn't be safe for THOUSANDS of TCs to live among the GCs.
If the occupation regime collapses, or if we find a solution that will give us back our rights, i guarantee you it will be safe.

So do we just take your word for it? or will there be real steps taken to guarantee safety and non discrimination?

[BirKibrisli]

Again I return to my couple analogy,because one of the partners have used the assets left behind and managed to build a nice home,and managed to join a club with a lot of benefits,how realistic is it to expect the estranged partner to return "home",before the remaining partner shows remorse and agrees to go to anger management or couple therapy???? True democracy,human rights,international law etc sounds great,but it will not get the TCs and Turkey to sign on the dotted line...So obviously a compromise interim solution is needed...Knowing this,and insisting on True Federation,as you put it,is it not as questionable as Talat's ( and Turkey's) recent proposals?

Well, I have already given you two answers on your "Husband & Wife" analogy as to why it is not a good example for what we have in Cyprus. But I want to hear what is your "interim" compromise for a settlement. Just how many Cypriots rights do you intend violating just to get the TCs to sign up.? Do any of these rights violations also include the TCs or is it only for the GCs.? How do you plan to convince the EU to go along with the violations of their own principles in order to violate the rights of many Cypriots.? What is it in for the GCs to have their rights violated just to please the TCs.? They didn't like it in 1960, so why would they want it today when they have a complete control of the RoC legally, politically and economically, not to mentions yesterday's Orams case results. Can you give me one good reason why they would do all that, just to please the TCs (Turkey) when in fact any attempt like that gives them no guarantee of a better future, even if they did get some land back. I have given you my BBF power sharing proposals which is very balanced for both sides, which is where we TCs need to start thinking of achieving with the GCs. It will be a win-.win for everyone if a genuine unification is what we all want. If not, than it is a bad plan, as VP told me so, because it does not give the north to be pure TC (Turkey) and also does not allow partition at will. Now, you tell me who doesn't want to unify and who does between the GCs and the TCs.!

Whatever you think of my couple analogy,you need to respond to the key aspect of it,Kikapu...That is: there has been physical and emotional trauma in this relationship before...Do you really think we can just sweep it under the carpet,and move onto another relationship,whatever that is,and hope to make it a success...I think (from memory) you implied earlier that that marriage was forced,and that was the reason for troubles.
But if we ignore the TC red lines today,the new marriage would be a forced one too...I see what you saying though...We have no chance of solving those problems,healing those traumas,so best to forget about them and move on...And hope for the best...This is the crunch point...The TCs have experienced something they had totally forgotten about...They experineced physical security....They do not go to bed and wonder whether they would be waking up in the morning,as it was the case between 63-74...I would be delighted if they moved on on mass...But it is not realistic Kikapu..It is wishful thinking on your part...They have not had your and my experiences,living in the trnc...They need to retain some of that security,at least intially....

Talking about violations of GC rights...What do you think is happening in Cyprus as we speak? How easy it is for people to forget that there were 2 partners in the RoC Republic and one has been missing for since 1963...Where are our rights accorded under the 1960 agreements...do you also think the TCs simply walked away to advance the Partition cause of Denktas...??? You say the GCs have total control of the RoC legally...That has been the GC argument for ages...Do you as a TC believe that?? You see nothing wrong with the way the TCs lost their share of power in the RoC? do you also think it was all their fault??? Does any moral arguments come in here???

I do not have my own proposals for a solution,Kikapu...And as I said many times I have no trouble living with your proposals...But it is obvious now,the TCs will not accept any solutiion which will remove Turkey out of the picture from the beginning...The agreement will have to accomodate this,or there will be no agreement...I have one good reason why the GCs should accept a compromise on this,if they don't they will loose 36 % of Cyprus to Turkey...But they will have one consolation,the TCs will lose 100% of Cyprus...Reading cetain Forumers' comments here, that might just be enough incentive for the GCs to insist on not compromising on their recently found democratic and human rights principles...

[BirKibrisli]

You are right in your sentiments here,Kikapu....The only thing I will question is your method of approaching/appealing to the TCs...Knowing what you know,what makes you think hitting the TCs on the head with the democracy and human rights stick is going to change their minds about accepting Turkey's total removal from the picture???

It's the only language the NeoPartitonist understand. They need to be told over and over again that the Annan Plan of 2004 is not coming back, ever, so the alternative is to get a system under True Democracy and True Federation to safeguard all their concerns and interests. Turkey just wants to cover her own interests, so telling the TCs that, unless they are there to be protected by them, they will become "dead meat" is something the TCs and Turkey will need to sort out between them. After the past events, the GCs will never give Turkey any rights to intervene. Turkey has a bad track record in that area, along with Greece and the UK. Let NATO forces in to provide security for all until they are no longer needed, even if it takes 100 years.

But they keep telling you they will not accept any solutiion which will remove Turkey from the Picture from day one...Yet,you want to hit them on the head with your democracy and human rights stick till they see it your way...I have not seen one question answered properly on this forum,and it has been put before...IF THE GCS REALLY INTEND NOT TO DO ANYTHING WRONG IN THE FUTURE WHY ARE THEY AFRAID OF TURKEY'S GUARANTEE...I know their answer but is yours the same ,Kikapu...Do you think Turkey was abusing her powers as a guarantor when she intially intervened after the coup against Makarios???
Forget about what happened afterwards....Just tell me what you think on the initial intervension/invasion....

[BirKibrisli]

I am sorry,Kikapu,saying lets have peace first and empathy and compassion will follow is like saying lets have the wedding first and love and passion will follow...

Well, that's how it use to be in the past, wasn’t it ? Well, at least with the TCs and the Turks and almost all Muslim countries. Still the case with many countries as well as in Turkey and in the TC community.!

The 2 sides do not trust each other...They do not respect each other...They have very little understanding and sympathy for each other...They are deeply suspicious of each other's motives and good intentions...How can you possibly expect this union to work without some ground work,building bridges,improving trust and understanding...????

Given the above, Bir, how do you expect them to have love and passion before the wedding.??

No, what will get these two sides together initially is an offer of Just & Fair settlement which will benefit each side economically and politically if they truly want to remain as a "couple", and the True Federation will be a system where the two sides will be joint at the hip to each other. With such a method where everything is in the open as an open society, more and more trust will build over time, then they will give each other all the empathy and understand of their past mistakes to each other. You are expecting too much for empathy and understanding to happen when at the moment because they only care about their own miseries and not the miseries of others. I wish I was wrong, but since what you wish for has not already happened on a very large scale, it still has a long way to go before it does.

Lets not beat around the bush....Nothing will happen without a compromise...There is no mutual trust and respect...No amount of wishful thinking will make the TCs get back into this relationship unless their fundamental fears for their lives are guaranteed to their satisfaction,Kikapu...You are wasting your time and energy...The TCs will not listen to your arguments because they see no difference between yours and the GCs'...The same way the GCs will be deaf to Bananiot's arguments...You might have moved on but the average TC living day in day out in Cyprus have not... You can make a really good contribution on this forum if you started taking on some of the more extreme GC forumers here,who are openly insulting all things Turkish and TC...By remaining silent you give those comments your silent approval...That is what hurts most TCs here,I am sure...

[DT.]

I am sorry,Kikapu,saying lets have peace first and empathy and compassion will follow is like saying lets have the wedding first and love and passion will follow...

Well, that's how it use to be in the past, wasn’t it ? Well, at least with the TCs and the Turks and almost all Muslim countries. Still the case with many countries as well as in Turkey and in the TC community.!

The 2 sides do not trust each other...They do not respect each other...They have very little understanding and sympathy for each other...They are deeply suspicious of each other's motives and good intentions...How can you possibly expect this union to work without some ground work,building bridges,improving trust and understanding...????

Given the above, Bir, how do you expect them to have love and passion before the wedding.??

No, what will get these two sides together initially is an offer of Just & Fair settlement which will benefit each side economically and politically if they truly want to remain as a "couple", and the True Federation will be a system where the two sides will be joint at the hip to each other. With such a method where everything is in the open as an open society, more and more trust will build over time, then they will give each other all the empathy and understand of their past mistakes to each other. You are expecting too much for empathy and understanding to happen when at the moment because they only care about their own miseries and not the miseries of others. I wish I was wrong, but since what you wish for has not already happened on a very large scale, it still has a long way to go before it does.

Lets not beat around the bush....Nothing will happen without a compromise...There is no mutual trust and respect...No amount of wishful thinking will make the TCs get back into this relationship unless their fundamental fears for their lives are guaranteed to their satisfaction,Kikapu...You are wasting your time and energy...The TCs will not listen to your arguments because they see no difference between yours and the GCs'...The same way the GCs will be deaf to Bananiot's arguments...You might have moved on but the average TC living day in day out in Cyprus have not... You can make a really good contribution on this forum if you started taking on some of the more extreme GC forumers here,who are openly insulting all things Turkish and TC...By remaining silent you give those comments your silent approval...That is what hurts most TCs here,I am sure...

Should Bananiot turn on VP then?

[Get Real!]

But it is obvious now,the TCs will not accept any solutiion which will remove Turkey out of the picture from the beginning...The agreement will have to accomodate this,or there will be no agreement...I have one good reason why the GCs should accept a compromise on this,if they don't they will loose 36 % of Cyprus to Turkey...

You’re nothing but an insult to people’s intelligence!

[Get Real!]

You can make a really good contribution on this forum if you started taking on some of the more extreme GC forumers here,who are openly insulting all things Turkish and TC...

You do a fine job insulting your people with the TOTAL BOLLOCKS you post!

If anything, it’s only a handful like Kikapu, Deniz, and Iceman that keep us from changing our protest banners from… “Turks out of Cyprus!” to “Turks and stupid Turkish Cypriots out of Cyprus!” so you should be grateful to them for giving YOU some dignity, let alone try to change them!