Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

I don't agree with you logic here,Kikapu....You know how the GCs here treat Bananiot and,to a lesser extend,miltiades...I will not repeat their words and insults,but I am sure you are well aware...But the deniers cannot dismiss your words so lightly...Hence if you said what you believed were the GC faults,they will have to consider it,for the whole of 5 minutes at least,before they dismiss it...

So what you are saying, Bir, is that Bananiot should start criticizing the TCs from now on and not his own community as he has done so effectively, and if he did that, where would that leave Bananiot, as the great understanding human being that many TCs on this forum see him as. The reason why Bananiot gets a lot of praise from the TCs, it is because he dares to confront his own peoples wrong doings from the past. When I do it, I’m the bad guy. Do I sense double standards here.? My criticism of my community is what is happening today. I have already told you that I have moved on from the past events. I'm not interested what happened in the past other than it’s being part of my and the islands history, and nor me or you can change the past, but we still have a "shot" at the future. Once again, you give me too much credit for altering anyone’s thinking by not criticising the GCs past events. I'm done with the past. Having said that, what is it that you would want me to criticise the GCs at present about.?? Please give me some pointers in what is it that they are doing wrong that is outside the legal parameters of the International community in the UN and the EU.?? Lets hear some wrongs that the GCs are doing as we speak regarding the future of Cyprus, which happens to be an EU member so that I can address them. If they are against Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles, then I would be in their face, because I’m only interested as we are talking about the present and the future of Cyprus and not the past. I'm done with the past, just to repeat myself.!

I would say the same thing to Bananiot,if I was talking to him Kikapu...
Because he only criticises the GC position,he too has neutralised himself in GC eyes...But we are talking about you here...It is a great thing that you moved on...But where have you moved on to??? You have moved onto exactly where the GC position is...Lets forget about the past,look only to the future...The problem is simply one of Turkish occupation..The TCs have been working hand in hand with Turkey from way back to achieve partition...They have ethnically cleansed us from the North...The TCs moved to the North as part of this great plan to achieve partition...Is this where you moved on to???Do you believe all that???Because by remaining silent when that is repeated ad nauseum on this Forum,you give it approval and credibility...

It is great that you moved on..But have the average GC moved on from 1974??? have most of the people who post here moved on??? How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma???I will ask you again...What is the point of harping on about democracy,human rights,EU principles etc when you know that neither the GCs nor the TCs are ready for such a great leep??? How does that bring us nearer to a solution...I understand that it might give the GCs a sense of moral and intellectual superiority over the TCs...could it be that it serves the same purpose for you???



[

[YFred]

I don't agree with you logic here,Kikapu....You know how the GCs here treat Bananiot and,to a lesser extend,miltiades...I will not repeat their words and insults,but I am sure you are well aware...But the deniers cannot dismiss your words so lightly...Hence if you said what you believed were the GC faults,they will have to consider it,for the whole of 5 minutes at least,before they dismiss it...

So what you are saying, Bir, is that Bananiot should start criticizing the TCs from now on and not his own community as he has done so effectively, and if he did that, where would that leave Bananiot, as the great understanding human being that many TCs on this forum see him as. The reason why Bananiot gets a lot of praise from the TCs, it is because he dares to confront his own peoples wrong doings from the past. When I do it, I’m the bad guy. Do I sense double standards here.? My criticism of my community is what is happening today. I have already told you that I have moved on from the past events. I'm not interested what happened in the past other than it’s being part of my and the islands history, and nor me or you can change the past, but we still have a "shot" at the future. Once again, you give me too much credit for altering anyone’s thinking by not criticising the GCs past events. I'm done with the past. Having said that, what is it that you would want me to criticise the GCs at present about.?? Please give me some pointers in what is it that they are doing wrong that is outside the legal parameters of the International community in the UN and the EU.?? Lets hear some wrongs that the GCs are doing as we speak regarding the future of Cyprus, which happens to be an EU member so that I can address them. If they are against Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles, then I would be in their face, because I’m only interested as we are talking about the present and the future of Cyprus and not the past. I'm done with the past, just to repeat myself.!

I would say the same thing to Bananiot,if I was talking to him Kikapu...
Because he only criticises the GC position,he too has neutralised himself in GC eyes...But we are talking about you here...It is a great thing that you moved on...But where have you moved on to??? You have moved onto exactly where the GC position is...Lets forget about the past,look only to the future...The problem is simply one of Turkish occupation..The TCs have been working hand in hand with Turkey from way back to achieve partition...They have ethnically cleansed us from the North...The TCs moved to the North as part of this great plan to achieve partition...Is this where you moved on to???Do you believe all that???Because by remaining silent when that is repeated ad nauseum on this Forum,you give it approval and credibility...

It is great that you moved on..But have the average GC moved on from 1974??? have most of the people who post here moved on??? How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma???I will ask you again...What is the point of harping on about democracy,human rights,EU principles etc when you know that neither the GCs nor the TCs are ready for such a great leep??? How does that bring us nearer to a solution...I understand that it might give the GCs a sense of moral and intellectual superiority over the TCs...could it be that it serves the same purpose for you???



[

Bir, you carry on with that mentality and you too will be yfredised.
How dare you question Kick baby like that. He is the only one capable of questioning people and getting the truth out of them. Have you read his BBQ plan yet? I am told it's to everybody's taste, what?

[Oracle]

.... How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma??? ...

Here you are. The nice Professor Georgopoulos had you in mind when he started his research and the treatment will soon roll out of the Pharmacies.

Imposing apartheid on a whole country and 1 Million people, is no remedy for your personal "problems" ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60J54S20100120

[-mikkie2-]

"What is the point of harping on about democracy,human rights,EU principles etc when you know that neither the GCs nor the TCs are ready for such a great leep??? "

Because the RoC is already a part of the EU and EU principles are universal and not biased to one side or the other.

The GC's in large part, have moved on. We (as well as the TC's by the way) are part of the wider European family and it is a big shame that the TC's refuse to acknowledge this. Faced with the overwhelming propaganda that the TC's are being fed every day (even blaming the floods on the GC's for Gods sake!) the I can understand why most TC's have not moved on.

My family have suffered in 1974 and I had to see my grandfather die before he know what happened to his son who was killed in 1974. My family suffered for all those years without knowing his fate but now we do know what happened to him and we have closure. Its the same for many GC's who lost loved ones. The ones that do still suffer to some degree are the refugees many of which still cling on to the memories of their homes in the north. And its the same for many TC's also who left the south.

[BirKibrisli]

Sure,there is corruption in the trnc,and I have often talked about it in the past...sometimes in very harsh terms...As you imply above it was not the fault of the TCs,it was forced upon them...The average decent TC has lost big time,Kikapu...I don't know what your personal experiences are,but in my family alone,2 of my Uncles who were already living in Nicosia pre 74 have refused to touch any refugee property...My other relatives,including the Auntie I share with Deniz,who became refugees themselves were only given a fraction of what they left behind...Most others who left before 74 got absolutely nothing for their properties in the South...The GC claim that all TCs got rich on refugee property is simply a myth...

My criticism are generally made to the "trnc" and all those who support the "trnc" 100%, like all our Fascist NeoPartitionist friends here on the forum and all the so called Turkish Newspapers who seem to lack any journalistic integrity or accuracy in their reporting, which Bayrak is no exception and by lesser "nationalist" who just like to pick fights with the GCs for the sake of it. I have always excluded the TC refugees from any attacks in the corrupted establishment of the north. I often separate the decent TCs from the Fascist and the settlers. But lets not kid ourselves, that many TCs who had gotten refugee homes have also bought up a lot of stolen GC land in the north as well as many TCs from the UK and else where. I wrote about my cousin's husband gloating about his purchases of GC properties in the north. He is not alone and it is these morally corrupted individuals who have been also an obstacle to finding a Fair & Just settlement, because they would lose it all, so they prefer anything but a Fair & Just peace plan. To them, Annan Plan was their ticket to keep most of the GCs land and have a partition at the same time in the form of a Confederate states with the "virgin birth" concept. That was voted down by 55.5% vs. 44.5% by all those who voted, and in my personal opinion, that was the right result.

My mother's parents land was divided by 5 children and 4 of them “exchanged” for GC land but my mother kept her deeds for the land in the south and refused to take part by taking GC land. As you have noted, she is not alone, as your family has done the same. Many families have done the same. But that's not to say, today, there isn’t a large amount of dealings that goes on in the north that is GC land. VP is only happy to tell you it is the case. Why do you think he is after a Annan Plan kind of a settlement. He has family members who are holding GC lands and I do not mean "exchange" even though he claims not to have any himself, which is very hard to believe knowing his partitionist stand.

We don't really know what VP's personal position is,so I dont think it is proper to speculate..The biggest profiteers amongst the TCs were those close to power,including those in influential positions in the TMT...There are thousands of indigenous TCs who became refugees or who left Cyprus before 74 who got absolutely nothing...Most land speculators are not TCs but settlers as far as I know..This doesn't make it right of course...But how can you remain silent when day after day you hear GCs talking about all TCs being thieves and dealers in stolen land???You know that is not the case,yet do not correct them...There is another myth on this forum,tht the TCs do not want a solution because they want to keep their financial gains?? As if the TCs had no emotional atachment to their ancestral land,and would sell their mothers for profit...I find that particularly insulting,don't you???

[BirKibrisli]

.... How can they move on when there has been nothing done to address their emotional stress and trauma...??? How can the TCs move on from 1963-74 without anything done to heal their pain and trauma??? ...

Here you are. The nice Professor Georgopoulos had you in mind when he started his research and the treatment will soon roll out of the Pharmacies.

Imposing apartheid on a whole country and 1 Million people, is no remedy for your personal "problems" ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60J54S20100120

Great,make sure you are first in the queue...In the meantime please refrain from interfering in my serious discussion with Kikapu...We are trying to solve Cyprus problem to your satisfaction!

[YFred]

Sure,there is corruption in the trnc,and I have often talked about it in the past...sometimes in very harsh terms...As you imply above it was not the fault of the TCs,it was forced upon them...The average decent TC has lost big time,Kikapu...I don't know what your personal experiences are,but in my family alone,2 of my Uncles who were already living in Nicosia pre 74 have refused to touch any refugee property...My other relatives,including the Auntie I share with Deniz,who became refugees themselves were only given a fraction of what they left behind...Most others who left before 74 got absolutely nothing for their properties in the South...The GC claim that all TCs got rich on refugee property is simply a myth...

My criticism are generally made to the "trnc" and all those who support the "trnc" 100%, like all our Fascist NeoPartitionist friends here on the forum and all the so called Turkish Newspapers who seem to lack any journalistic integrity or accuracy in their reporting, which Bayrak is no exception and by lesser "nationalist" who just like to pick fights with the GCs for the sake of it. I have always excluded the TC refugees from any attacks in the corrupted establishment of the north. I often separate the decent TCs from the Fascist and the settlers. But lets not kid ourselves, that many TCs who had gotten refugee homes have also bought up a lot of stolen GC land in the north as well as many TCs from the UK and else where. I wrote about my cousin's husband gloating about his purchases of GC properties in the north. He is not alone and it is these morally corrupted individuals who have been also an obstacle to finding a Fair & Just settlement, because they would lose it all, so they prefer anything but a Fair & Just peace plan. To them, Annan Plan was their ticket to keep most of the GCs land and have a partition at the same time in the form of a Confederate states with the "virgin birth" concept. That was voted down by 55.5% vs. 44.5% by all those who voted, and in my personal opinion, that was the right result.

My mother's parents land was divided by 5 children and 4 of them “exchanged” for GC land but my mother kept her deeds for the land in the south and refused to take part by taking GC land. As you have noted, she is not alone, as your family has done the same. Many families have done the same. But that's not to say, today, there isn’t a large amount of dealings that goes on in the north that is GC land. VP is only happy to tell you it is the case. Why do you think he is after a Annan Plan kind of a settlement. He has family members who are holding GC lands and I do not mean "exchange" even though he claims not to have any himself, which is very hard to believe knowing his partitionist stand.

We don't really know what VP's personal position is,so I dont think it is proper to speculate..The biggest profiteers amongst the TCs were those close to power,including those in influential positions in the TMT...There are thousands of indigenous TCs who became refugees or who left Cyprus before 74 who got absolutely nothing...Most land speculators are not TCs but settlers as far as I know..This doesn't make it right of course...But how can you remain silent when day after day you hear GCs talking about all TCs being thieves and dealers in stolen land???You know that is not the case,yet do not correct them...There is another myth on this forum,tht the TCs do not want a solution because they want to keep their financial gains?? As if the TCs had no emotional atachment to their ancestral land,and would sell their mothers for profit...I find that particularly insulting,don't you???

Perhaps you can also explain to him that accusing somebody who has lost land to the GCs and has not done eshdeger of having GC land without any evidence is also slightly unethical for a person who prides himself of being decent.
But then again, now that we now about his family, it is all understandable. The guilt of somebody so close to him being so Denktashite must be killing him.

[Cyp1981]

Sure,there is corruption in the trnc,and I have often talked about it in the past...sometimes in very harsh terms...As you imply above it was not the fault of the TCs,it was forced upon them...The average decent TC has lost big time,Kikapu...I don't know what your personal experiences are,but in my family alone,2 of my Uncles who were already living in Nicosia pre 74 have refused to touch any refugee property...My other relatives,including the Auntie I share with Deniz,who became refugees themselves were only given a fraction of what they left behind...Most others who left before 74 got absolutely nothing for their properties in the South...The GC claim that all TCs got rich on refugee property is simply a myth...

My criticism are generally made to the "trnc" and all those who support the "trnc" 100%, like all our Fascist NeoPartitionist friends here on the forum and all the so called Turkish Newspapers who seem to lack any journalistic integrity or accuracy in their reporting, which Bayrak is no exception and by lesser "nationalist" who just like to pick fights with the GCs for the sake of it. I have always excluded the TC refugees from any attacks in the corrupted establishment of the north. I often separate the decent TCs from the Fascist and the settlers. But lets not kid ourselves, that many TCs who had gotten refugee homes have also bought up a lot of stolen GC land in the north as well as many TCs from the UK and else where. I wrote about my cousin's husband gloating about his purchases of GC properties in the north. He is not alone and it is these morally corrupted individuals who have been also an obstacle to finding a Fair & Just settlement, because they would lose it all, so they prefer anything but a Fair & Just peace plan. To them, Annan Plan was their ticket to keep most of the GCs land and have a partition at the same time in the form of a Confederate states with the "virgin birth" concept. That was voted down by 55.5% vs. 44.5% by all those who voted, and in my personal opinion, that was the right result.

My mother's parents land was divided by 5 children and 4 of them “exchanged” for GC land but my mother kept her deeds for the land in the south and refused to take part by taking GC land. As you have noted, she is not alone, as your family has done the same. Many families have done the same. But that's not to say, today, there isn’t a large amount of dealings that goes on in the north that is GC land. VP is only happy to tell you it is the case. Why do you think he is after a Annan Plan kind of a settlement. He has family members who are holding GC lands and I do not mean "exchange" even though he claims not to have any himself, which is very hard to believe knowing his partitionist stand.

We don't really know what VP's personal position is,so I dont think it is proper to speculate..The biggest profiteers amongst the TCs were those close to power,including those in influential positions in the TMT...There are thousands of indigenous TCs who became refugees or who left Cyprus before 74 who got absolutely nothing...Most land speculators are not TCs but settlers as far as I know..This doesn't make it right of course...But how can you remain silent when day after day you hear GCs talking about all TCs being thieves and dealers in stolen land???You know that is not the case,yet do not correct them...There is another myth on this forum,tht the TCs do not want a solution because they want to keep their financial gains?? As if the TCs had no emotional atachment to their ancestral land,and would sell their mothers for profit...I find that particularly insulting,don't you???

I agree, plus there is no financial gains to Tc's, Yes there is financial support by turkey but it all goes to settlers, they are te ones whose using school and hospitals.. So Tc's dont have any financial gain to lose.. And all the money goes back to turkey throu trksh companies, because everything comes from turkey..

[boomerang]

Sure,there is corruption in the trnc,and I have often talked about it in the past...sometimes in very harsh terms...As you imply above it was not the fault of the TCs,it was forced upon them...The average decent TC has lost big time,Kikapu...I don't know what your personal experiences are,but in my family alone,2 of my Uncles who were already living in Nicosia pre 74 have refused to touch any refugee property...My other relatives,including the Auntie I share with Deniz,who became refugees themselves were only given a fraction of what they left behind...Most others who left before 74 got absolutely nothing for their properties in the South...The GC claim that all TCs got rich on refugee property is simply a myth...

My criticism are generally made to the "trnc" and all those who support the "trnc" 100%, like all our Fascist NeoPartitionist friends here on the forum and all the so called Turkish Newspapers who seem to lack any journalistic integrity or accuracy in their reporting, which Bayrak is no exception and by lesser "nationalist" who just like to pick fights with the GCs for the sake of it. I have always excluded the TC refugees from any attacks in the corrupted establishment of the north. I often separate the decent TCs from the Fascist and the settlers. But lets not kid ourselves, that many TCs who had gotten refugee homes have also bought up a lot of stolen GC land in the north as well as many TCs from the UK and else where. I wrote about my cousin's husband gloating about his purchases of GC properties in the north. He is not alone and it is these morally corrupted individuals who have been also an obstacle to finding a Fair & Just settlement, because they would lose it all, so they prefer anything but a Fair & Just peace plan. To them, Annan Plan was their ticket to keep most of the GCs land and have a partition at the same time in the form of a Confederate states with the "virgin birth" concept. That was voted down by 55.5% vs. 44.5% by all those who voted, and in my personal opinion, that was the right result.

My mother's parents land was divided by 5 children and 4 of them “exchanged” for GC land but my mother kept her deeds for the land in the south and refused to take part by taking GC land. As you have noted, she is not alone, as your family has done the same. Many families have done the same. But that's not to say, today, there isn’t a large amount of dealings that goes on in the north that is GC land. VP is only happy to tell you it is the case. Why do you think he is after a Annan Plan kind of a settlement. He has family members who are holding GC lands and I do not mean "exchange" even though he claims not to have any himself, which is very hard to believe knowing his partitionist stand.

We don't really know what VP's personal position is,so I dont think it is proper to speculate..The biggest profiteers amongst the TCs were those close to power,including those in influential positions in the TMT...There are thousands of indigenous TCs who became refugees or who left Cyprus before 74 who got absolutely nothing...Most land speculators are not TCs but settlers as far as I know..This doesn't make it right of course...But how can you remain silent when day after day you hear GCs talking about all TCs being thieves and dealers in stolen land???You know that is not the case,yet do not correct them...There is another myth on this forum,tht the TCs do not want a solution because they want to keep their financial gains?? As if the TCs had no emotional atachment to their ancestral land,and would sell their mothers for profit...I find that particularly insulting,don't you???

in vp's words bir...guilty by association...

he blames all the gcs for the actions of a few...his reasoning, the gcs stay silent...guilty by association...

so if the tcs are silent on just about everything turkey forwards on them you can safely assume guilt by association...

look at the picasso on the mountain...the tcs are saying nothing on this rather choosing to stay silent...actually they stay silent on just about everything...why not organise peacefull demonstrations asking for the removal of the picasso knowingly the ill situation it represents...so again guilty by association...

[BirKibrisli]

Sure,there is corruption in the trnc,and I have often talked about it in the past...sometimes in very harsh terms...As you imply above it was not the fault of the TCs,it was forced upon them...The average decent TC has lost big time,Kikapu...I don't know what your personal experiences are,but in my family alone,2 of my Uncles who were already living in Nicosia pre 74 have refused to touch any refugee property...My other relatives,including the Auntie I share with Deniz,who became refugees themselves were only given a fraction of what they left behind...Most others who left before 74 got absolutely nothing for their properties in the South...The GC claim that all TCs got rich on refugee property is simply a myth...

My criticism are generally made to the "trnc" and all those who support the "trnc" 100%, like all our Fascist NeoPartitionist friends here on the forum and all the so called Turkish Newspapers who seem to lack any journalistic integrity or accuracy in their reporting, which Bayrak is no exception and by lesser "nationalist" who just like to pick fights with the GCs for the sake of it. I have always excluded the TC refugees from any attacks in the corrupted establishment of the north. I often separate the decent TCs from the Fascist and the settlers. But lets not kid ourselves, that many TCs who had gotten refugee homes have also bought up a lot of stolen GC land in the north as well as many TCs from the UK and else where. I wrote about my cousin's husband gloating about his purchases of GC properties in the north. He is not alone and it is these morally corrupted individuals who have been also an obstacle to finding a Fair & Just settlement, because they would lose it all, so they prefer anything but a Fair & Just peace plan. To them, Annan Plan was their ticket to keep most of the GCs land and have a partition at the same time in the form of a Confederate states with the "virgin birth" concept. That was voted down by 55.5% vs. 44.5% by all those who voted, and in my personal opinion, that was the right result.

My mother's parents land was divided by 5 children and 4 of them “exchanged” for GC land but my mother kept her deeds for the land in the south and refused to take part by taking GC land. As you have noted, she is not alone, as your family has done the same. Many families have done the same. But that's not to say, today, there isn’t a large amount of dealings that goes on in the north that is GC land. VP is only happy to tell you it is the case. Why do you think he is after a Annan Plan kind of a settlement. He has family members who are holding GC lands and I do not mean "exchange" even though he claims not to have any himself, which is very hard to believe knowing his partitionist stand.

We don't really know what VP's personal position is,so I dont think it is proper to speculate..The biggest profiteers amongst the TCs were those close to power,including those in influential positions in the TMT...There are thousands of indigenous TCs who became refugees or who left Cyprus before 74 who got absolutely nothing...Most land speculators are not TCs but settlers as far as I know..This doesn't make it right of course...But how can you remain silent when day after day you hear GCs talking about all TCs being thieves and dealers in stolen land???You know that is not the case,yet do not correct them...There is another myth on this forum,tht the TCs do not want a solution because they want to keep their financial gains?? As if the TCs had no emotional atachment to their ancestral land,and would sell their mothers for profit...I find that particularly insulting,don't you???

in vp's words bir...guilty by association...

he blames all the gcs for the actions of a few...his reasoning, the gcs stay silent...guilty by association...

so if the tcs are silent on just about everything turkey forwards on them you can safely assume guilt by association...

look at the picasso on the mountain...the tcs are saying nothing on this rather choosing to stay silent...actually they stay silent on just about everything...why not organise peacefull demonstrations asking for the removal of the picasso knowingly the ill situation it represents...so again guilty by association...

I have talked about this many times,boomers...
I said it was too insensitive and pointless to rub the GCs nose in that monster,many times...But to expect them to have protest marches for its removal is unrealistic..and dangerous...They are likely to be attacked by some fanatics amongst the settlers...I am not sure what the situation is now,but during the reign of nationalist government coalitions in Turkey and trnc,there was a strong "grey wolf" presence in the North...They might now have made way to Islamists,i don't know...Even the Islamists would probably object to such a protest...Being a TC in Cyprus keeps getting difficult,boomers,I kid you not...