Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

you mean you phucked us over then cried like babies and pretended to be the innocent ones

Yes we fucked you over to save ourselves from getting fucked.

VP there is no need for such language.

Most GCs and TCs did absolutely nothing wrong. It was not something which they had any control over what so ever.

[Viewpoint]

you mean you phucked us over then cried like babies and pretended to be the innocent ones

Yes we fucked you over to save ourselves from getting fucked.

VP there is no need for such language.

Most GCs and TCs did absolutely nothing wrong. It was not something which they had any control over what so ever.

You are right I do apologies for the foul language but I was lost for words and wanted to explain myself bluntley. They turned a blind eye doesnt that make them just as guilty?

[Oracle]

That is the beginning of our physical separation and it was inflicted by you, the GC side.

Not according to the UN Secretary-General of the time…

"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"

UN document S/6426

No, not really. All this says is they do not want to come out. How can they when the illagal regime that put them there in the first place is now (at the time the quote was released) controlling the whole of Cyprus via armed thugs institutionalized as the 'national guard'?

That was the cause behind the self-segregation of the TCs.

Can't be any clearer.

[YFred]

you mean you phucked us over then cried like babies and pretended to be the innocent ones

Yes we fucked you over to save ourselves from getting fucked.

VP there is no need for such language.

Most GCs and TCs did absolutely nothing wrong. It was not something which they had any control over what so ever.

You are right I do apologies for the foul language but I was lost for words and wanted to explain myself bluntley. They turned a blind eye doesnt that make them just as guilty?

There is no doubt that both sides committed atrocities. I dread to think what would have happened to the TCs if Turkey did not intervene but I really do think that if the two populations want it, there is a peace agreement that would satisfy most people.

[Murataga]

That is the beginning of our physical separation and it was inflicted by you, the GC side.

Not according to the UN Secretary-General of the time…

"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"

UN document S/6426

No, not really. All this says is they do not want to come out. How can they when the illagal regime that put them there in the first place is now (at the time the quote was released) controlling the whole of Cyprus via armed thugs institutionalized as the 'national guard'?

That was the cause behind the self-segregation of the TCs.

Can't be any clearer.

What the hell are you talking about? How can we not try to take cover after all the attacks? How can you expect us to come out of the ghettos like a walk in the park when the criminal armed grouped that chased us in there is waiting outside - stronger than ever and funded by the GC taxpayer money? How can you expect us to submit to an authority that prevented us from attending the government? Enough with the cheap politics for God`s sake...

Does this read like people self-imposing their way in to ghettos...?


U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

OR this maybe?...

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/8286 of December 1967

"126. When disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued in the first part of 1964, thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled from their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in what they considered to be safer Turkish Cypriot villages and areas.
The refusal of the Greek Cypriot authorities to allow the Turkish Cypriot refugees to return to their homes in conditions of safety effectively frustrated persistent Turkish efforts to rehabilitate them. They also obstructed attempts to improve their living conditions"

[Expatkiwi]

There is no doubt that both sides committed atrocities. I dread to think what would have happened to the TCs if Turkey did not intervene but I really do think that if the two populations want it, there is a peace agreement that would satisfy most people.

Well, I had a solution idea on another thread, but folk like Oracle seem to still question my motives, even though it was for a unitary state... Can't quite figure her out at times.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer

For the first part the reasoning is that the leaders will never accept something they know their people won't.

Then I would read and if I thought it was in the best interests of the TCs and you would do the same for the GCs I would have no problem saying yes but at the same token even if my leader did agree a solution that was not in our best interests I would not hesitate to reject it.

About as to why the majority of TCs at this point in time would prefer partition (notice all polls talk for preference not absolute want) there are many reasons including the ones you said. Additional ones are:a) The standard of living increased 2 times in the last 5 years, so economically much less to earn from a solution. b)Too much easy selling of stolen GC properties and easy profit c)They already get most of the EU benefits on personl level...
just to name a few.
In general everybody looks at his own pocket.

Do you know the majority of TCs dont take the above into consideration their main concern is becoming foreigners in their own country under GCs who are hell bent on taking control of the whole island, thats why they are fixated with demanding every safeguard and guarantee that will not allow GCs to do as they wish. IMHO its all about trust and neither side trusts the other at all.

NB. I am rather confused from what you said. So do they want agreed partition or the status quo?

The continuation of the current status quo after yet another failed attempt at finding a solution will push TCs into the getting the world to force the GCs to agree to partition for return of land.

for first part---->

For 2nd part, the talks will be over if Eroglu is elected. I think the TC side will really be politically screwed by the GCs if Eroglu is elected. Jeez the man does not even speak English....
The rest i think is just your own opinion. The Gc side is not stupid to ever ever even think about agreed partition. Such a move is a political suicide.

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer

For the first part the reasoning is that the leaders will never accept something they know their people won't.

Then I would read and if I thought it was in the best interests of the TCs and you would do the same for the GCs I would have no problem saying yes but at the same token even if my leader did agree a solution that was not in our best interests I would not hesitate to reject it.

About as to why the majority of TCs at this point in time would prefer partition (notice all polls talk for preference not absolute want) there are many reasons including the ones you said. Additional ones are:a) The standard of living increased 2 times in the last 5 years, so economically much less to earn from a solution. b)Too much easy selling of stolen GC properties and easy profit c)They already get most of the EU benefits on personl level...
just to name a few.
In general everybody looks at his own pocket.

Do you know the majority of TCs dont take the above into consideration their main concern is becoming foreigners in their own country under GCs who are hell bent on taking control of the whole island, thats why they are fixated with demanding every safeguard and guarantee that will not allow GCs to do as they wish. IMHO its all about trust and neither side trusts the other at all.

NB. I am rather confused from what you said. So do they want agreed partition or the status quo?

The continuation of the current status quo after yet another failed attempt at finding a solution will push TCs into the getting the world to force the GCs to agree to partition for return of land.

for first part---->

For 2nd part, the talks will be over if Eroglu is elected. I think the TC side will really be politically screwed by the GCs if Eroglu is elected. Jeez the man does not even speak English....
The rest i think is just your own opinion. The Gc side is not stupid to ever ever even think about agreed partition. Such a move is a political suicide.

Never say ever you may be pushed into it when you least expect it.

[Get Real!]

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

It doesn’t specify here who forced them to flee, but if you read the UN report I posted earlier in which Secretary General CLEARLY condemns…

"The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"

…then it becomes elementary that the TMT henchmen were forcing Turkish Cypriots to move into enclaves to prove their point that the two communities could not coexist.

[Oracle]

... What the hell are you talking about? How can we not try to take cover after all the attacks? How can you expect us to come out of the ghettos like a walk in the park when the criminal armed grouped that chased us in there is waiting outside -

That was your Denktash's TMT who put you there and kept you there!

How can you expect us to submit to an authority that prevented us from attending the government?

How were you "prevented"? By the fear of a fairer constitution?

Does this read like people self-imposing their way in to ghettos...?


U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

This part does not speak about the self-imposed enclaving because the other section covered it adequately!

What it shows is the aftermath of the Turkish attack with bombs and Napalm of GC villages. It is the aftermath of Turkey's first major attack on Cyprus for the sole purpose of Taksim ... now "achieved" (temporarily)...

The destroyed villages includes GC villages and MOSTLY mixed villages. The destroyed houses were NOT just TC houses.

Wasn't it Denktash who could have stopped the Brits killing some rioting TCs but chose instead to let them be killed because their deaths could be useful to him? In the same way, he herded TCs into enclaves and used their hardship because this was useful to him for his later claims and demands, for Taksim.

BTW ... I can't find either of your two quotes other than one of them was in a letter by Denktash. Were they some kind of draft by any chance?

I notice UNFICYP is referred to incorrectly .....