Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

You are a moderate TC? Say another joke!

-Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?
+ Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?

-Why do we have to spend 6 months in a country that is NOW foreign to us to claim our land (this is against human rights)?
+ Cyprus has always been foreign to you. You are Turkish invaders not Cypriots. You are divided between Turkish Settlers of the first Turkish invasion and Turkish settlers of the second Turkish invasion.

-Why do you encourage the embargo on our people in the North of Cyprus?
+ Because you are the enemy who occupied the north part of our country.

- Where are our missing people?
+ Where are our missing people?

-why dont you teach your people more of what was done to the TCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?
+why don't you teach your people more of what was done to the GCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?

- why do you not come down hard on racism on Turks (graffitti- army t-shirt saying the only good turk is a dead turk- in football games and the recent student march - how many arrests were there?
+ Because Turks are the enemy who occupied our country. Of course we hate you fucking criminals! What the fuck did you expect?

What does that mean guys? Well it means that your claims of enosis as your legal right… is in fact illegal… and guess what your entry to the EU is also illegal… unless I have misunderstood something?

RESOLUTION 541 (1983)

Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983



The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create an independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need for a solution of the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continuing support for the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-General's statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration referred to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to pursue his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary-General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all States not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all States and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

Adopted at the 2500th meeting by 13 votes to 1 against (Pakistan) with 1 abstention (Jordan).

[DTA]

You are a moderate TC? Say another joke!

-Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?
+ Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?

-Why do we have to spend 6 months in a country that is NOW foreign to us to claim our land (this is against human rights)?
+ Cyprus has always been foreign to you. You are Turkish invaders not Cypriots. You are divided between Turkish Settlers of the first Turkish invasion and Turkish settlers of the second Turkish invasion.

-Why do you encourage the embargo on our people in the North of Cyprus?
+ Because you are the enemy who occupied the north part of our country.

- Where are our missing people?
+ Where are our missing people?

-why dont you teach your people more of what was done to the TCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?
+why don't you teach your people more of what was done to the GCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?

- why do you not come down hard on racism on Turks (graffitti- army t-shirt saying the only good turk is a dead turk- in football games and the recent student march - how many arrests were there?
+ Because Turks are the enemy who occupied our country. Of course we hate you fucking criminals! What the fuck did you expect?

What does that mean guys? Well it means that your claims of enosis as your legal right… is in fact illegal… and guess what your entry to the EU is also illegal… unless I have misunderstood something?

RESOLUTION 541 (1983)

Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983



The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create an independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need for a solution of the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continuing support for the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-General's statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration referred to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to pursue his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary-General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all States not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all States and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

Adopted at the 2500th meeting by 13 votes to 1 against (Pakistan) with 1 abstention (Jordan).

Well done you have not answered one of my questions.... Like I said I cant wait to join you guys.

also you ignore me saying this:

"Yes I know that these questions can be put to the TRNC as well but the ROC is supposed to represent us as well as the GC (even now according to them) - if this is the case why are they still not working for us as well?"

TRNC has never claimed to represent GCs' but the ROC does... So stop being silly and answer my questions... if you can manage it

And yes I WAS a moderate TURKish cypriot.

[Sotos]

There is no "trnc" the attempt to create such thing was invalid And the RoC represents all Cypriots not Turkish Settlers.

[BirKibrisli]

Okey,you refuse to talk about the 60s....What if the TCs refuse to talk about the 70s,particularly July and August,74... Do you think that will get us far...??? what do you think we should be talking about??? You name your topic and the period,and we 'll see...

We should all know by now that the only fruitful period for discussion is 4th February 2010 onwards.

Perhaps it's time we should leave judgements of the past to the historians of the future.

That is fine ,Bill...But in what context are we going to talk about today and tomorrow??? Lets say we all agreed never to talk about the past events...Okey,say we are going to talk about how to solve the problem...Only looking at the future...where will we begin??? Hmmmmm...lets see..."What is the biggest obstacle to peace in Cyprus????" That is a nice place to begin...You go first, Bill...Lets see how far we go before having to refer to the past...

Really it's remarkably simple, and am very surprised that you disagree.

Wouldn't necessarily start with obstacles to peace as you do, start with the usual First Principles, in individual rights, in religious rights, in the sovereignty of nations, in governance, in security etc etc, things which are valued universally throughout almost the whole of the rest of the world, and see how they contribute to maintain order and respect and other matters, in other places, as well as to your "obstacles to peace".

By the way, don't whatever you do Bir take up your own challenge, cos if you look again at your post, you've already failed it, when you say ....

...."Only looking to the future" .... which says clearly to me, that you would like to bring up the past. ..... again ... and again ...and again ....and again....

Wishful thinking on your part again,Bill..If it was that simple they would've done it by now dont't you think..?? History,specially recent history still remembered by people, individually and collectively, cannot be swept under the carpet...I agree in theory,by the way, that if we could do that a solution would be much more simple...but would it be lasting,would it be just? How are you going to talk about the "property" issue without talking about the GC refugees from 74 and the TC refugees from 63 and 74/75??? When you are deciding on the borders of the new statelets how will you avoid talking about the numbers of refugees who might want to exercise their rights of return???

[B25]

DTA, I am truely sorry for your losses family wise, but we too have suffered even greater losses than you. It doesn't make it right, but we didn't get away with it scot free. I didn't see you condemn your people in your post, but you sought only for us to recognise your suffering!

If you left Cyp prior to '74, you can claim your land without any 6 month rule. Can we claim ours???

The RoC does represent all Cypriots, come and join us. How can we represent you is a pseudo state??

Our missing amount to 1676, yours to about 400 (relatively), whos is losing the most, YOU tell us where ours are.

Propoganda, os the same both sides.

Racisism, well, why arn't you on the pentadaktylos mounting removing your giant graffiti, and you moan about ours??

You see, you are not squeaky clean are you, yet you come here playing the victim, AGAIN!.

Have I answered your questions???

[Oracle]

..If it was that simple they would've done it by now dont't you think..??

It's not that simple because it has nothing to do with TC-history but everything to do with Turkish Expansionist history.

[BirKibrisli]

This is the model that racists like Erol aspire to. Failing that, their model is the Ottoman conquests and subsequent ethnic cleansing/genocide, so they can Turkify by force a territory stolen from others.

Blah blah blah. Because I argue that TC had a seperate right to self determination in the face of GC that chose to define themselves not as Cypriots but as part of the Greek people and because I challenge the notion that just because Piratis and other GC percieved the valid legal rights granted to TC community under the 60's agreements 'unfair' then the recourse by them to secret plans and use of ethnic violence to illegaly remove those rights was '100% legal' then I must of course be a facist supporter of apartheid.

The pattern Piratis is as familar as it is boring. Attack my arguments. Then attack arguments I have never made but that you claim I make. Then attack me as an indivdual.

Yawn.

You are fascist because you support the crimes you committed against innocent GCs in the 50s as means to receive unfair privileges and powers on the expense of the majority of Cypriots.

You are a fascist because in the 60s instead of accepting to abolish those racist laws you imposed on us by force you instead choose to start killing people again.

You are a fascist because you support the killing of thousands and the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands and the "trnc", the result of these crimes. (just a while ago you were telling us about "TRNC laws" )

I have read through all this debate, and wow!! WOW!!! I just cant wait to rejoin you guys in one Island.

You have succeeded in turning another moderate TC who WAS not entirely opposed to the uniting of Cyprus as one people to someone who wants nothing of the sort.

So riddle me this guys: is the ROC the same in its legal entity as the one founded in 1960 if so should you not still abide by the constitution of 1960?
Just stick To legal arguments please.

If not shouldn’t a new constitution and a new state be formed, a state that would need to gain international recognition? Again just legal arguments please.

For those of you claim that enosis was your legal right as the majority of the Island, what happened to the Turks of Crete when enosis was achieved?

But that would never have happened in Cyprus right?….Except Nico Samson said that if he achieved enosis he would have wiped the Turks from the Island…. And what stopped Nico Samson?….. Yep that’s right Turkey’s intervention. An intervention that even an Athens court deemed as legal… now argue against it.

As I also understand it isn’t there a clause in the 1960 Constitution that says that Cyprus can never be joined to another country (enosis), divided (takism) or join a union that both Cyprus and Turkey are not part of?

What does that mean guys? Well it means that your claims of enosis as your legal right… is in fact illegal… and guess what your entry to the EU is also illegal… unless I have misunderstood something?

OH but wait… wait the 1960 constitution was unfair…. Well you should not have signed it should you. If I agree a contract with a business partner, then later on down the line decide this contract is unfair I either have to challenge it through courts of law… (but you threw out the judge) or try to renegotiate the contract, what I cant do is go around intimidating and trying to kill my partner because…. That would be ….. ILLIGAL

This is something that I posted on another thread but my questions remains unanswered.

Ok let me start by saying that I was born after 1974 so i have no direct experience. I have spoken to a lot of TCs and they have told me a lot of things but I will leave them out of this post as well.

I will only concentrate on what my father and my grandfather have told me because I know that what they say is a 100% accurate and have come through their personnel experiences rather then hearsay.

Ok my fathers family came from a town near pathos they all speak and write Greek as well as Turkish they grew up with Greek friends shared meals celebrations even intermarried.

From 1963 to 1968 (when they left Cyprus) two things happened to my family that shook them to the core and turned their world upside down.

The first thing was the kidnap and murder of six of my Dads cousins on the way to their work (we still have not found their bodies). The second thing was on a bus journey my Granddad who must of been in his, or close to his sixties at the time was marched off the bus at gun point and was going to be shoot. Some of people that were doing this knew him, I cant say they were friends of the family but they defiantly knew our family - he was only saved by the plea of a solitary greek woman on the bus who pleaded for them to stop (bless her - I dont who she is or if she is still alive but if I ever get the chance I would like to love to meet and thank her).

Because of this in 1968 when they had the chance to leave for london they did for their safety. Leaving behind approximately 50 donums of land.

So this is a family (my family) that fully intergrated in the way of a singular Cypriot community, they had was no secrete plan for Taksim no involvement in the TMT they lived in and loved Cyprus but they had to endure great losses at the hands of the people they knew and thought were friends and country men.

You quite rightly bring up the subject of insecurity and yes there was lot of insecurity but on top of this there is another huge factor that you miss out.
And that is of BETRAYAL.

TC were betrayed by the people that they saw as brothers, those that had come to eat in their houses, to play with their children to join them in celebrations etc etc.

These were the people that (and this was proved with happened to my granddad on the buss), were ready and willing to kill them.

But the betrayal does not stop their because not only were GC that they knew all of a sudden turning on them but the government itself and its President - the one that was supposed to represent us as well - was calling us the enemy, threatening to wipe us off the map (i can get you the quotes if you want).

Then there is the police force that to my knowledge (and if I am wrong please correct me and show me the relevant details) from 1963 - 1974 did not arrest and prosecute one eoka member- they were supposed to be our police force as well why were they not protecting us?

So yes scared and betrayed we went to enclaves and protected ourselves with the help of the TMT and Turkey. And what happens the government of Cyprus (supposedly our government as well) bans baby milk (amongst a whole heap of other things) from reaching Turkish Cypriot enclaves- BABY MILK, can the message be made any clearer?

So on to Today the world has changed no? ROC cyprus wants us back, wants us to become citizens again....

That is the picture that is being painted... but if you look closer you will see that we are still being descriminated against...

-Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?
-Why do we have to spend 6 months in a country that is NOW foreign to us to claim our land (this is against human rights)?
-Why do you encourage the embargo on our people in the North of Cyprus? ( i know the answer to this - but it does not make it right)
- Where are our missing people?
- why dont you teach your people more of what was done to the TCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?
- why do you not come down hard on racism on Turks (graffitti- army t-shirt saying the only good turk is a dead turk- in football games and the recent student march - how many arrests were there?
- there is much more.... but I will stop

Yes I know that these questions can be put to the TRNC as well but the ROC is supposed to represent us as well as the GC (even now according to them) - if this is the case why are they still not working for us as well?

Do not expect any sensible answers to your questions from most of the GCs here,DTA...I have been trying for some time now to tell them my own personal experiences....All I get back is "you are lying and exaggerating to justify Turkey's expansionist policy"...Just look at Oracle's response above!!!Our GC friends do not want to hear any of that..Even the more moderate ones want to simply forget all the past and look to the future...Then they will tell you it is all a new world now,they have found this new club EU,where democracy and human rights reign supreme,and all is measured in economic wealth...So they want the TCs to send Turkey packing home and come and embrace them in this new world...So stop your whingeing and stop your attempts to justify Turkey's territorial ambitions,forget what your father and grandfather told you,and come and join the likes of bulio,Paphidis,Epsilon,Yialousa, GR,Oracle,Sotos,B25,Piratis et al,in their new democratic heaven..You will be all right,mate...

[bill cobbett]

This is the model that racists like Erol aspire to. Failing that, their model is the Ottoman conquests and subsequent ethnic cleansing/genocide, so they can Turkify by force a territory stolen from others.

Blah blah blah. Because I argue that TC had a seperate right to self determination in the face of GC that chose to define themselves not as Cypriots but as part of the Greek people and because I challenge the notion that just because Piratis and other GC percieved the valid legal rights granted to TC community under the 60's agreements 'unfair' then the recourse by them to secret plans and use of ethnic violence to illegaly remove those rights was '100% legal' then I must of course be a facist supporter of apartheid.

The pattern Piratis is as familar as it is boring. Attack my arguments. Then attack arguments I have never made but that you claim I make. Then attack me as an indivdual.

Yawn.

You are fascist because you support the crimes you committed against innocent GCs in the 50s as means to receive unfair privileges and powers on the expense of the majority of Cypriots.

You are a fascist because in the 60s instead of accepting to abolish those racist laws you imposed on us by force you instead choose to start killing people again.

You are a fascist because you support the killing of thousands and the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands and the "trnc", the result of these crimes. (just a while ago you were telling us about "TRNC laws" )

I have read through all this debate, and wow!! WOW!!! I just cant wait to rejoin you guys in one Island.

You have succeeded in turning another moderate TC who WAS not entirely opposed to the uniting of Cyprus as one people to someone who wants nothing of the sort.

So riddle me this guys: is the ROC the same in its legal entity as the one founded in 1960 if so should you not still abide by the constitution of 1960?
Just stick To legal arguments please.

If not shouldn’t a new constitution and a new state be formed, a state that would need to gain international recognition? Again just legal arguments please.

For those of you claim that enosis was your legal right as the majority of the Island, what happened to the Turks of Crete when enosis was achieved?

But that would never have happened in Cyprus right?….Except Nico Samson said that if he achieved enosis he would have wiped the Turks from the Island…. And what stopped Nico Samson?….. Yep that’s right Turkey’s intervention. An intervention that even an Athens court deemed as legal… now argue against it.

As I also understand it isn’t there a clause in the 1960 Constitution that says that Cyprus can never be joined to another country (enosis), divided (takism) or join a union that both Cyprus and Turkey are not part of?

What does that mean guys? Well it means that your claims of enosis as your legal right… is in fact illegal… and guess what your entry to the EU is also illegal… unless I have misunderstood something?

OH but wait… wait the 1960 constitution was unfair…. Well you should not have signed it should you. If I agree a contract with a business partner, then later on down the line decide this contract is unfair I either have to challenge it through courts of law… (but you threw out the judge) or try to renegotiate the contract, what I cant do is go around intimidating and trying to kill my partner because…. That would be ….. ILLIGAL

This is something that I posted on another thread but my questions remains unanswered.

Ok let me start by saying that I was born after 1974 so i have no direct experience. I have spoken to a lot of TCs and they have told me a lot of things but I will leave them out of this post as well.

I will only concentrate on what my father and my grandfather have told me because I know that what they say is a 100% accurate and have come through their personnel experiences rather then hearsay.

Ok my fathers family came from a town near pathos they all speak and write Greek as well as Turkish they grew up with Greek friends shared meals celebrations even intermarried.

From 1963 to 1968 (when they left Cyprus) two things happened to my family that shook them to the core and turned their world upside down.

The first thing was the kidnap and murder of six of my Dads cousins on the way to their work (we still have not found their bodies). The second thing was on a bus journey my Granddad who must of been in his, or close to his sixties at the time was marched off the bus at gun point and was going to be shoot. Some of people that were doing this knew him, I cant say they were friends of the family but they defiantly knew our family - he was only saved by the plea of a solitary greek woman on the bus who pleaded for them to stop (bless her - I dont who she is or if she is still alive but if I ever get the chance I would like to love to meet and thank her).

Because of this in 1968 when they had the chance to leave for london they did for their safety. Leaving behind approximately 50 donums of land.

So this is a family (my family) that fully intergrated in the way of a singular Cypriot community, they had was no secrete plan for Taksim no involvement in the TMT they lived in and loved Cyprus but they had to endure great losses at the hands of the people they knew and thought were friends and country men.

You quite rightly bring up the subject of insecurity and yes there was lot of insecurity but on top of this there is another huge factor that you miss out.
And that is of BETRAYAL.

TC were betrayed by the people that they saw as brothers, those that had come to eat in their houses, to play with their children to join them in celebrations etc etc.

These were the people that (and this was proved with happened to my granddad on the buss), were ready and willing to kill them.

But the betrayal does not stop their because not only were GC that they knew all of a sudden turning on them but the government itself and its President - the one that was supposed to represent us as well - was calling us the enemy, threatening to wipe us off the map (i can get you the quotes if you want).

Then there is the police force that to my knowledge (and if I am wrong please correct me and show me the relevant details) from 1963 - 1974 did not arrest and prosecute one eoka member- they were supposed to be our police force as well why were they not protecting us?

So yes scared and betrayed we went to enclaves and protected ourselves with the help of the TMT and Turkey. And what happens the government of Cyprus (supposedly our government as well) bans baby milk (amongst a whole heap of other things) from reaching Turkish Cypriot enclaves- BABY MILK, can the message be made any clearer?

So on to Today the world has changed no? ROC cyprus wants us back, wants us to become citizens again....

That is the picture that is being painted... but if you look closer you will see that we are still being descriminated against...

-Where are the criminal cases against those that killed our people?
-Why do we have to spend 6 months in a country that is NOW foreign to us to claim our land (this is against human rights)?
-Why do you encourage the embargo on our people in the North of Cyprus? ( i know the answer to this - but it does not make it right)
- Where are our missing people?
- why dont you teach your people more of what was done to the TCs - then they will be more open to reconciliation?
- why do you not come down hard on racism on Turks (graffitti- army t-shirt saying the only good turk is a dead turk- in football games and the recent student march - how many arrests were there?
- there is much more.... but I will stop

Yes I know that these questions can be put to the TRNC as well but the ROC is supposed to represent us as well as the GC (even now according to them) - if this is the case why are they still not working for us as well?

Do not expect any sensible answers to your questions from most of the GCs here,DTA...I have been trying for some time now to tell them my own personal experiences....All I get back is "you are lying and exaggerating to justify Turkey's expansionist policy"...Just look at Oracle's response above!!!Our GC friends do not want to hear any of that..Even the more moderate ones want to simply forget all the past and look to the future...Then they will tell you it is all a new world now,they have found this new club EU,where democracy and human rights reign supreme,and all is measured in economic wealth...So they want the TCs to send Turkey packing home and come and embrace them in this new world...So stop your whingeing and stop your attempts to justify Turkey's territorial ambitions,forget what your father and grandfather told you,and come and join the likes of bulio,Paphidis,Epsilon,Yialousa, GR,Oracle,Sotos,B25,Piratis et al,in their new democratic heaven..You will be all right,mate...

Well done Bir, if I may say so, you got it in one with last bit of your post (highlighted).

Any chance of dropping the usual offensive refs to "TCs" and "GCs" please ..... oh, and that wink at the end.

[Get Real!]

...is the ROC the same in its legal entity as the one founded in 1960 if so should you not still abide by the constitution of 1960?

We always abide by it but are you up to date with the last 35 year’s of changes?

If not shouldn’t a new constitution and a new state be formed, a state that would need to gain international recognition?

The RoC has always had international recognition so I'm not sure what you're on about...

For those of you claim that enosis was your legal right as the majority of the Island, what happened to the Turks of Crete when enosis was achieved?

I for one don't support Enosis and neither do I think it was anyone’s “legal right” but at the same time I hardly think it’s an excuse for the TC enosis with Turkey!

Except Nico Samson said that if he achieved enosis he would have wiped the Turks from the Island…. And what stopped Nico Samson?….. Yep that’s right Turkey’s intervention.

I hardly think "what Nico said" would ever stand in a court of law as evidence for anything. And not to mention that GCs could also start with “What Denktash said!”

An intervention that even an Athens court deemed as legal… now argue against it.

Incorrect. This is just a TC myth.

As I also understand it isn’t there a clause in the 1960 Constitution that says that Cyprus can never be joined to another country (enosis), divided (takism) or join a union that both Cyprus and Turkey are not part of?

The UN used international legal experts to assess the situation and all four gave the thumbs up in their report. I've got that document somewhere.

What does that mean guys? Well it means that your claims of enosis as your legal right… is in fact illegal… and guess what your entry to the EU is also illegal… unless I have misunderstood something?

I agree with your first notion but not the second.

OH but wait… wait the 1960 constitution was unfair…. Well you should not have signed it should you. If I agree a contract with a business partner, then later on down the line decide this contract is unfair I either have to challenge it through courts of law…

The 59 agreements were abandoned by your leaders, declared null & void, and further violated with the creation of the "TRNC" so I hardly think you're in a position to regard yourselves "partners" of it!

(but you threw out the judge) or try to renegotiate the contract, what I cant do is go around intimidating and trying to kill my partner because…. That would be ….. ILLIGAL

That's exactly what Makarios did with his 13 point proposal but the TCs spat the dummy.

This is something that I posted on another thread but my questions remains unanswered.

Not anymore.

[boulio]

and ive asked you Bir and YFRED AND VIEWPOINT QUESTIONS THAT go unanswered as well, forget sensabile we dont get asnwers period.

Like how many t/c died during the 1963-1974 intercommunal strife?
like what do t/c invision as federalism?
LIke do t/c respect individual property rights for people on both sides of the divide

etc etc etc etc

All we get is silence because something happended 40 years ago(and that still up in the air)
and in the same breath the TMT fired bombed homes but at the same time protected that prison(o meant village)

so lets get to the point BIR SINCE THIS IS A CYPRUS PROBLEM FORUM

HOW DO WE SOLVE THE PROBLEM,NO HISTORY LESSONS FROM YOU OR PIRATIS JUST PROBLEM SOLVING CAN YOU DO THAT?

OR SHOULD THE MOD OPEN A CYPRUS HISTORY BLOG AND YOU CAN POST THERE?