Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Oracle, all states, in all federations, are equal to each other!

In Germany, there can be no discrimination among the residents of the states on the basis of ethnicity. They are all German citizens, and they can freely move, settle and exercise their political rights in and from within any of the states composing the German federation.

Agreed on equality of individuals. So are you saying that the acknowledged Turks (Anatolian settlers) will automatically gain equal rights to reside in one (or both ) states? (Because that was his complaint, that we do not give them equal rights, since they are not citizens!)

But this deal sounds like one state will be Turkish (with present Settlers in residence, maybe more to follow) and the other state might be as is now, the RoC to which all will be welcome (and for which it will be preferable for the majority, no matter original ethnicity).

[Kikapu]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Didn't you get the memo Oracle, that according to Viewpoint, the TC's in the north are now back to their roots to Anatolia, therefore they have now "abdicated" their Turkish Cypriotness and want to be known as "Turks" from now on, because he reminds me of this fact every chance he gets in his posts.

I know he is not speaking for all the TC's that I know on the forum and in private but only for himself and his NeoPartitionist friends, which I can accept as being fact. Some people just can't let go their "mummy's" hand and become a independent adult and unfortunatly, the NeoPartitionist are those people with insecurities of being their own person.

[Kifeas]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Oracle, all states, in all federations, are equal to each other!

In Germany, there can be no discrimination among the residents of the states on the basis of ethnicity. They are all German citizens, and they can freely move, settle and exercise their political rights in and from within any of the states composing the German federation.

Agreed on equality of individuals. So are you saying that the acknowledged Turks (Anatolian settlers) will automatically gain equal rights to reside in one (or both ) states? (Because that was his complaint, that we do not give them equal rights, since they are not citizens!)

But this deal sounds like one state will be Turkish (with present Settlers in residence, maybe more to follow) and the other state might be as is now, the RoC to which all will be welcome (and for which it will be preferable for the majority, no matter original ethnicity).

Settlers cannot stay, Oracle, because their transfer in Cyprus was illegal in the first place. Turkey will have to repatriate them on its own expenses, because it is a war crime to colonize with its own people, a territory that a country occupies! Accepting their staying over -more so giving them citizenship right, violates international law and the human rights of the indigenous inhabitants, due to the fact that their coming here was made deliberately in order to alter the demographics of the country Turkey illegally occupied! The issue of settlers is an entirely different one, to that of the model of federation we are talking about!

[Oracle]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Oracle, all states, in all federations, are equal to each other!

In Germany, there can be no discrimination among the residents of the states on the basis of ethnicity. They are all German citizens, and they can freely move, settle and exercise their political rights in and from within any of the states composing the German federation.

Agreed on equality of individuals. So are you saying that the acknowledged Turks (Anatolian settlers) will automatically gain equal rights to reside in one (or both ) states? (Because that was his complaint, that we do not give them equal rights, since they are not citizens!)

But this deal sounds like one state will be Turkish (with present Settlers in residence, maybe more to follow) and the other state might be as is now, the RoC to which all will be welcome (and for which it will be preferable for the majority, no matter original ethnicity).

Settlers cannot stay, Oracle, because their transfer in Cyprus was illegal in the first place. Turkey will have to repatriate them on its own expenses, because it is a war crime to colonize with its own people, a territory that a country occupies! Accepting their staying over -more so giving them citizenship right, violates international law and the human rights of the indigenous inhabitants, due to the fact that their coming here was made deliberately in order to alter the demographics of the country Turkey illegally occupied! The issue of settlers is an entirely different one, to that of the model of federation we are talking about!

I don't want to monopolise you Kifeas ... but this is precisely why I think Soyer cleverly used the term "not giving the Turks equal rights" ... he knows we have always specified equal rights for TCs, so that is not an issue.

So for him to make an issue of us not giving Turks equal rights, he must be referring to wanting us to recognise the Anatolian settlers as having a right to equal citizenship in one or both states!

I don't understand why you cannot see that subtle use of "Turk" as opposed to "TC". (I know Kikapu has made the point that people such as VP use the term interchangeably, but I don't think that has become acceptable on the political arena ... yet!).

[Viewpoint]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Didn't you get the memo Oracle, that according to Viewpoint, the TC's in the north are now back to their roots to Anatolia, therefore they have now "abdicated" their Turkish Cypriotness and want to be known as "Turks" from now on, because he reminds me of this fact every chance he gets in his posts.

I know he is not speaking for all the TC's that I know on the forum and in private but only for himself and his NeoPartitionist friends, which I can accept as being fact. Some people just can't let go their "mummy's" hand and become a independent adult and unfortunatly, the NeoPartitionist are those people with insecurities of being their own person.

Arent you the one who states this has happened and that in time there will be no TCs left, Im only agreeing with you and stating that GCs will have to share Cyprus with mainland Turks first generation rather than TCs with roots that go back 450 years, a history shared with GCs. You are really contradicting yourself.

[Kikapu]

These states with equal rights ... how do we know one is not purely Turkish and the other over-run with TCs ("formerly" RoC)?

... after all he accused us of not wanting to give the "TURKS equal rights" ... he did not say TCs?

Didn't you get the memo Oracle, that according to Viewpoint, the TC's in the north are now back to their roots to Anatolia, therefore they have now "abdicated" their Turkish Cypriotness and want to be known as "Turks" from now on, because he reminds me of this fact every chance he gets in his posts.

I know he is not speaking for all the TC's that I know on the forum and in private but only for himself and his NeoPartitionist friends, which I can accept as being fact. Some people just can't let go their "mummy's" hand and become a independent adult and unfortunatly, the NeoPartitionist are those people with insecurities of being their own person.

Arent you the one who states this has happened and that in time there will be no TCs left, Im only agreeing with you and stating that GCs will have to share Cyprus with mainland Turks first generation rather than TCs with roots that go back 450 years, a history shared with GCs. You are really contradicting yourself.

NO, no VP, lets get it straight. I said that the TC's are being replaced by the settlers at an alarming rate and in time, there will be no more True TC's left in the north because they will want to leave than become a "Little Turkey" in the north to live under their laws. What you are saying is that the True TC's are willingly "abdicating" their Turkish Cypriotness to become "Turks" by returning to their Anotolian roots, as this is a natural course to be taken. In essence VP, you are committing a suicide of your 450 years of Turkish Cypriot ethnicity on your free will. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves just about now. I got to handed to you VP, because it takes a BIG man to admit such an act. If the rest of the True TC's were to follow your lead to exterminate their heritage as Cypriots, then we will become just like the Kickapoo (Kikapoo, Kikapu) tribes of North America who are almost extinct, and just like them, we too will have hiking trails named after us as a remembrance of the once lived ethnic TC's in Cyprus.! Well done VP, because your actions will mean that only the GC will be able to claim to be Cypriots when that time comes, because the settlers will not become Cypriots as they will keep their Anatolian roots, and who can blame them, when 450 years of your heritage does not account for anything to you, why the hell it should mean anything to them after being in Cyprus at a fraction of that time.

[-mikkie2-]

I think Mr Soyer is playing with words. We all know that the solution being pushed by the Turkish side is of confederation of two states which is very different to the federal model used in Germany.

All this is a public relations exercise. If the Der Speiger reported delved deeper and asked more searching questions then it would be interesting to see what he would think!

[BirKibrisli]

Cypriot Turks (Kibris Turkleri) is a term used interchangeably with Turkish Cypriots for as long as I remember,which goes back 50 years now....Soyer being my vintage is probably just using it as such...Recently I am hearing "Turks of Cyprus" which although it also translates as Kibris Turkleri has an entirely different political meaning...One certainly needs to be cautious..Turks of Cyprus removes all distinction between True TCs and the settlers...Its use must not be tolerated...

[Nikitas]

If the TCs disappear as a community then all claims by anyone other than the remaining genuine Cypriots to the north are abolished. Is that the aim of Turkey? If it is, then it is pursuing it very well.

[Nikitas]

A model based on the German Federal system! THis is another example of cynicism and it it is revealing about what we are dealing with! Say what people want to hear, seems to be the rule.

It was Soyer and Talat who demolised all hopes of return for all refugees because they consider such a development incompatible with "bizonality". Which is totally the opposite of what Soyer told the Spiegel reporter, without even blushing!