Cyprus-Forum.com

[coremax]

Guys, being new to the forum, greetings...

I have done my homework and read quite a lot of the previous posts as well as watching the threads silently for some time by now, I have to tell you that the place looks pretty civilized when discussing such a controversial topic, so I think that it would be worth the time spent here (I hope I'm right).

Anyway, my two cents; Tim, what makes you think that the reverse of a scenario (i.e. taking Turkey out of the picture) you've mentioned above would be different by means of assimilation?

[Tim Drayton]

Guys, being new to the forum, greetings...

I have done my homework and read quite a lot of the previous posts as well as watching the threads silently for some time by now, I have to tell you that the place looks pretty civilized when discussing such a controversial topic, so I think that it would be worth the time spent here (I hope I'm right).

Anyway, my two cents; Tim, what makes you think that the reverse of a scenario (i.e. taking Turkey out of the picture) you've mentioned above would be different by means of assimilation?

Because in my opinion over the centuries in which Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots lived together on this small island, a unique Cypriot culture developed. I feel that, culturally speaking, Turkish Cypriots have more in common with Greek Cypriots than with mainland Turks. So, remove Turkey from the equation and Turkish Cypriots will be able to maintain and develop their unique culture. However, Turkey's policy of settlement and assimilation in the part of Cyprus it controls has probably gone so far now that it is not fully reversable.

[BirKibrisli]

Guys, being new to the forum, greetings...

I have done my homework and read quite a lot of the previous posts as well as watching the threads silently for some time by now, I have to tell you that the place looks pretty civilized when discussing such a controversial topic, so I think that it would be worth the time spent here (I hope I'm right).

Anyway, my two cents; Tim, what makes you think that the reverse of a scenario (i.e. taking Turkey out of the picture) you've mentioned above would be different by means of assimilation?

Because in my opinion over the centuries in which Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots lived together on this small island, a unique Cypriot culture developed. I feel that, culturally speaking, Turkish Cypriots have more in common with Greek Cypriots than with mainland Turks. So, remove Turkey from the equation and Turkish Cypriots will be able to maintain and develop their unique culture. However, Turkey's policy of settlement and assimilation in the part of Cyprus it controls has probably gone so far now that it is not fully reversable.

It can be reserved only if a solution is found soon,which will remove most of the settlers,bring the TCs and GCs in close cooperation,and if a conserted effort is made to attract the TCs in the diaspora back to Cyprus....Tim is right...TCs have much much more in common with the GCs than the mainland Turks...If by some miracle all GCs woke up tomorrow speaking Turkish (of Cypriot kind) and believing in Islam they would be indistinguishable from the real TCs post 1974...

[Nikitas]

Mr H talks about Northern Ireland but has the Sudetenland in mind.

[Tim Drayton]

[It can be reserved only if a solution is found soon,which will remove most of the settlers,bring the TCs and GCs in close cooperation,and if a conserted effort is made to attract the TCs in the diaspora back to Cyprus....Tim is right...TCs have much much more in common with the GCs than the mainland Turks...If by some miracle all GCs woke up tomorrow speaking Turkish (of Cypriot kind) and believing in Islam they would be indistinguishable from the real TCs post 1974...

As you say, remove most but not all of the settlers. This point has been hotly debated here before, but it is no longer realistic after 34 years to demand that all settlers leave. You have to remember that there has been intermarriage between Turkish Cypriots and mainland Turks, and also that some settler families are now in their third generation. Anatolian culture has by now established a firm foothold in the north of Cyprus.

[coremax]

I agree with you about the cohabitated culture, and the fact that TCs and GCs have more in common, it's so primal and obvious.

But, if you think of the situation from a TC's point of view, even though the idea of being assimilated is nowhere near acceptable, being slowly drifted (or rather 'being evolved' by means of an outer force) into a total mainland dependent community, where even the local limited means of production are forced to close down, biased ruling bodies made up of mainland affirmed sects, you'd feel cornered, and you would exchange independence (which is already not an option) for security and finances...

From a GC's point of view, a bold strategy would have sufficed in a solution, considering the known facts given.

This is the true problem; TR and GR interference, which lies way beneath just a small island. But I have to admit that any GC must be quite furious about how GR fail to handle these matters over such an instable TR foreign policy.

[Nikitas]

The settler problem is complicated by considerations of humanity etc, when the real angle it should be looked at is that of a war crime.

No rights can accrue from a crime. It is that simple.

Those who married Cypriots stay because they have a legitimate claim to nationality.

Those who are considered as meriting residence because of long term residence, get residence, renewable every year, same as legal foreign residents of Turkey or any other country. They and their offspring do not get nationality.

The rest GO, with compensation or without, but they GO. And I do not think there is any Cypriot who does not understand the rationale behind this approach. Any other way is simply setting the foundations for a major clash in the future, one which will make 1963 and 1974 seem like picnics.

Cant you people realise the inflammatory effect on both Cypriot communities when they see Anatolian settlers in a village, living on land taken from others, when Cypriot expats and landless people get nothing? If you cannot appreciate the resentment then you have been out of touch with Cypriots too long.

[Tim Drayton]

[...]

Cant you people realise the inflammatory effect on both Cypriot communities when they see Anatolian settlers in a village, living on land taken from others, when Cypriot expats and landless people get nothing? If you cannot appreciate the resentment then you have been out of touch with Cypriots too long.

[...]

The question of which, if any, settlers get to stay is a separate one from whether they get to continue occupying other people's property. It is possible to permit them to stay in Cyprus, but not in the houses they currently occupy.

[coremax]

It would be beyond logic to let them 'keep' other people's properties in case of a solution. Even as a mere sentence it sounds wrong.

Think about a few moves ahead, will you be willing to pay a portion of your taxes for their housing assistance, or move them into housing complexes that can be perceived as ghettos?

[BirKibrisli]

The settler problem is complicated by considerations of humanity etc, when the real angle it should be looked at is that of a war crime.

No rights can accrue from a crime. It is that simple.

Those who married Cypriots stay because they have a legitimate claim to nationality.

Those who are considered as meriting residence because of long term residence, get residence, renewable every year, same as legal foreign residents of Turkey or any other country. They and their offspring do not get nationality.

The rest GO, with compensation or without, but they GO. And I do not think there is any Cypriot who does not understand the rationale behind this approach. Any other way is simply setting the foundations for a major clash in the future, one which will make 1963 and 1974 seem like picnics.

Cant you people realise the inflammatory effect on both Cypriot communities when they see Anatolian settlers in a village, living on land taken from others, when Cypriot expats and landless people get nothing? If you cannot appreciate the resentment then you have been out of touch with Cypriots too long.

Yep...It makes perfect sense to me ,Nikitas..
And I would be very surprised if,in the end,this is not what comes to pass...