Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

I do not go in for Turkey bashing or any other kind of bashing, but some recent facts are worth noting.

TUrkey wants to enter the EU, one of the conditions of EU entry is that member nations must agree that they will forego military means in solving their differences and submit all disputes to the international court to be resolved according to international law.

Turkey has some problems with international law, especially the law of the sea because it happens that application of this law will give Greece a part of the Aegean. Note that Turkey had NO PROBLEM applying this very same law to its northern and southern coasts.

Turkey refuses to submit this problem to the international court now, and prefers to solve it by an extra judicial agreement with Greece, an EU member state, before Turkey joins the EU. In this political (rather than judicial) process the military balance between the two countries becomes relevant and useful hence the daily violations of Greek air and sea space.

Note that there were no similar violations of Russian space in the Black Sea when settling a similar issue there.

The inference drawn from the above facts, which are verifiable by looking up Turkish media and statements by officials, paint a picture of a nation which applies cynically the law only when it suits its purpose and according to the relative strengths and weaknesses of the situation. The cure for such a cynical and selfish attitude is not accomodation, it is strict application of rules that apply to all. THis is the point of joining the EU, that it is a club with rules of universal application, otherwise the whole exercise becomes pointless.

[BirKibrisli]

First of all you dragged in the TCs whereas I have stuck to discussing the Turks, but fine if you wish to group them as inseparable.

Secondly, just look at your first response in this thread and tell me what kind of picture you are trying to portray with telling us the Turks would give us the shirt off their backs!

What is good for the goose,Oracle...If you group the GCs as inseparable from the Greeks...

The hospitality of the Turkish people is legendary,Oracle...I was talking about how you could go about approaching the Turks if you want them to cooperate,that's all...A far cry from "the evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche" you accuse me of...

[Oracle]

First of all you dragged in the TCs whereas I have stuck to discussing the Turks, but fine if you wish to group them as inseparable.

Secondly, just look at your first response in this thread and tell me what kind of picture you are trying to portray with telling us the Turks would give us the shirt off their backs!

What is good for the goose,Oracle...If you group the GCs as inseparable from the Greeks...

The hospitality of the Turkish people is legendary,Oracle...I was talking about how you could go about approaching the Turks if you want them to cooperate,that's all...A far cry from "the evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche" you accuse me of...

As I said I have no problem with your classification of the TCs. But I wonder how you manage to ignore the video criticising Turkey's politics/policies and try to make out I am Turkey bashing because I failed to mention their legendary (in your eyes) hospitality, as well as their disposition for donating items of clothing.

Clearly you are avoiding facing the realities that matter (e.g. Occupation of Cyprus) and instead extol those ordinary human virtues, which frankly I know (as does everyone else) occur in greater abundance in many more groups of people than just the Turks, yet are taken for granted as par for the norm, because they are not overshadowed by the greater sum of collective malevolence.

[doesntmatter]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

Counter productive to your efforts to paint them as innocent misunderstood harbingers of peace?

Show me where in my thousands of posts I try to paint Turks and the TCs as innocent/misunderstood harbingers of peace...Or forever hold your peace!!!!

Ne yaparsan yap, ne soylersen soyle, sonunda Rumlar icin nefrettikleri Turk'ten baska bir sey degilsin.

Oh olsun sana.

[BirKibrisli]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

Counter productive to your efforts to paint them as innocent misunderstood harbingers of peace?

Show me where in my thousands of posts I try to paint Turks and the TCs as innocent/misunderstood harbingers of peace...Or forever hold your peace!!!!

Ne yaparsan yap, ne soylersen soyle, sonunda Rumlar icin nefrettikleri Turk'ten baska bir sey degilsin.

Oh olsun sana.

It doesn't matter...

[MrH]

Again, failure to realise the truth regarding the TRNC - until it is one day recognised, or should I say realised by the GCs, it is practically known as:

The Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus, similarly to...
The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You guys have serious got to wake up!

Fly to North Cyprus, Ercan, Turkey
Post letters to MERSIN 10, North Cyprus, Turkey
Economic Agreement as HSBC North Cyprus, Turkey.

Until the isolation is removed......you must at least realise this reality - it's absurd to ignore it. While, the peace talks in Cyprus between Talat and Chris, well, they are just formality - a waste of time!!!

Turkey's EU aspirations have NOTHING to do with the Cyprus issue. When Turkey is Ready, the EU WILL DROP the GC CONTROLLED Cyprus hold like a BAD HABIT.

They've done it before; done it with economic agreements, political ventures and recently with NOT getting involved with the case with the "Turkish Warships" scenario. Stop stepping on Turkey's foot - it's futile.

Turkey doesn't need the EU to prosper - in fact, the EU need Turkey, this is obvious! Stop being short-sighted and think about what is happening today and what will happen in Europe, China and the Middle-east in the next 10-15 years.

GC needs and desires are not important to the EU, never have, and never will be - that is obvious considering the amount of moaning the GCs do AGAINST the TRNC and the so-called Invasion. I'm surprised you haven't realised this yet.

Moan, Moan, Moan - Invasion, Invasion, Invasion - give it a break will ya. Have a coke and a smile.

[Tim Drayton]

The Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus

This is a new one on me. If your dream is to see full annexation, why all the talk about Turkish Cypriot independence?

[DT.]

Again, failure to realise the truth regarding the TRNC - until it is one day recognised, or should I say realised by the GCs, it is practically known as:

The Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus, similarly to...
The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You guys have serious got to wake up!

Fly to North Cyprus, Ercan, Turkey
Post letters to MERSIN 10, North Cyprus, Turkey
Economic Agreement as HSBC North Cyprus, Turkey.

Until the isolation is removed......you must at least realise this reality - it's absurd to ignore it. While, the peace talks in Cyprus between Talat and Chris, well, they are just formality - a waste of time!!!

Turkey's EU aspirations have NOTHING to do with the Cyprus issue. When Turkey is Ready, the EU WILL DROP the GC CONTROLLED Cyprus hold like a BAD HABIT.

They've done it before; done it with economic agreements, political ventures and recently with NOT getting involved with the case with the "Turkish Warships" scenario. Stop stepping on Turkey's foot - it's futile.

Turkey doesn't need the EU to prosper - in fact, the EU need Turkey, this is obvious! Stop being short-sighted and think about what is happening today and what will happen in Europe, China and the Middle-east in the next 10-15 years.

GC needs and desires are not important to the EU, never have, and never will be - that is obvious considering the amount of moaning the GCs do AGAINST the TRNC and the so-called Invasion. I'm surprised you haven't realised this yet.

Moan, Moan, Moan - Invasion, Invasion, Invasion - give it a break will ya. Have a coke and a smile.

Moan, Moan, Moan - Invasion, Invasion, Invasion - give it a break will ya. Have a coke and a smile

Let me arrange a few hoodies in Harringey to take your house from you and if i hear you moan you're gonna get the biggest bitch slap you've ever had.

Then you can have your coke and your smile.

[MrH]

Tim Drayton Wrote:

This is a new one on me. If your dream is to see full annexation, why all the talk about Turkish Cypriot independence?

Northern Cyprus, similar to Scotland and also wales would be an independent country, wouldn't?

Does Wales and Scotland not have their own "National" teams in the "World Cup Football", "Rugby" and etc? Are they not an undisputed country, although a part of the United Kingdom. Does Scotland not have its own parliament Tim?

I want Turkish Cypriot Independence AWAY from GC influence, control or domination. Where, the only way to do this, considering the GCs are seriously uncompromising in accepting the reality of their being two peoples and two states, and their hold on the UN due to their relationship with Russia, is to "Merge" with the Republic of Turkey. At least then we'll be able to operate as an International Entity. Perhaps it will fall slightly short of "Recognition" as an independent Republic, but it's better than how we would be viewed by the GCs in a so-called "Unification" deal under a GC Dominated Cyprus government - with Protect MINORITY rights!

[Tim Drayton]

Tim Drayton Wrote:

This is a new one on me. If your dream is to see full annexation, why all the talk about Turkish Cypriot independence?

Northern Cyprus, similar to Scotland and also wales would be an independent country, wouldn't?

Does Wales and Scotland not have their own "National" teams in the "World Cup Football", "Rugby" and etc? Are they not an undisputed country, although a part of the United Kingdom. Does Scotland not have its own parliament Tim?

I want Turkish Cypriot Independence AWAY from GC influence, control or domination. Where, the only way to do this, considering the GCs are seriously uncompromising in accepting the reality of their being two peoples and two states, and their hold on the UN due to their relationship with Russia, is to "Merge" with the Republic of Turkey. At least then we'll be able to operate as an International Entity. Perhaps it will fall slightly short of "Recognition" as an independent Republic, but it's better than how we would be viewed by the GCs in a so-called "Unification" deal under a GC Dominated Cyprus government - with Protect MINORITY rights!

I see one problem with this line of argument. In the United Kingdom, Scotland and Wales enjoy considerable cultural autonomy. On the other hand, Turkey's goal appears to be to remove all traces of autonomous Turkish Cypriot culture. Isn't it true that Denktash, whose ultimate dream was surely annexation, even forbade folkore groups in the north of Cyprus from performing traditional Cypriot dances and made them peform traditional Anatolian dances instead? I somehow do not think that the model Turkey has in mind is the United Kingdom.