Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Attack them and criticise them and they will respond with unity and with an iron fist...Praise them and stroke their egos,and they will give you the shirt off their backs.

So, do you reckon that if we praised them and complimented them on the manner in which they invaded us, they would give us our country back ?.

.

No...But if you tried to objectively understand/consider why the invasion took place,and try to show some degree of empathy with the plight of the TCs,and some sympathy for their fears and trepidations about their future,we would all be closer to getting our country back...

[BirKibrisli]

Turkish warships interfered with a ship exploring in the Exclusive Economic Zone off the south of Cyprus yesterday.

How was this a reaction to any perceived threat to Turkey or to the TCs and how would this behavior change by complimenting them?

If the Turks are so sensitive about their collective ego maybe they should undergo some soul searching and figure out how they got to be at odds with most of their neighbors and the world.

But instead the proposed course is for the world to change to accomodate the Turks. And Europe should change its qualifications to allow entry on terms different to those all the others had to endure. Somehow this idea does not seem fair or likely to take off.

Nikitas,
I am responding to those who insist on Turk-bashing at every opportunity.
I am getting frustrated because I know how counter productive this is...
Turks are essentially an insecure people,bewildered by the demands of their religion,legacy of Ataturk's lightening-strike reforms,and the present predicament they find themselves in vis a vis the EU demands for real democracy...All this exhibits itself as irrational pride,conservative and tentative response to the world,and as ardent nationalism...You don't approach people like this with threats and insults if you know what is good for you...The world need not change to accomodate the Turks,but if they want to deal with them they need to consider what makes the Turks tick...
And devise their diplomacy accordingly...

[BirKibrisli]

From birth every Sunni muslim Turk is a master of takiyye and lying, you can only imagine how much better at lying the highest ranking government officials in a muslim country have to be out of necessity to survive in their political envrionment.

Can you enlighten us further on this point???
What ,in your educated opinion,makes every Sunni muslim Turk a master of takkiye and lying????

[Nikephoros]

http://islaminturkey.blogspot.com/2008/ ... firms.html

... a prominent Turkish [Professor of Islamic law] Hayrettin Karaman, does not mince his words and tell the truth as is: Islam and Democracy does not mix easily due to Islam’s rejection of secularism and the principle of “separation of Church and State”. Why? Because Islam is not just a spiritual connection between an individual and her Creator but also a political system and a state ideology.

Here is what Karaman said on the issue (as reported by Turkish daily Milliyet, October 1, 2008):

“A secular person cannot be a Muslim. If some Muslims at the same time say “elhamdülillah I’m secular”, then they fall into a contradiction. If they are saying so without really beliving it, for fear or political reasons, then they are committing takiyye [a lie that Muslims are allowed to say when faced with danger]. But I not only refrain from saying “I’m a secular person” but I also openly declare that secularism cannot be commensurate with Islam. Also I’m not saying that “Muslims can begrudgingly become secular-democrats when they need to act so.” What I’m saying is this: “Muslims tolerate and effectively adapt to a secular-democrat regime not because these regimes are in line with Islam but because they are forced to do so – and their religion allows that in cases of exigency.””

Turkey is a country having nothing to do with Western values and norms. This forces alot of takiyye to conceal the muslim/Turkish way of doing things from the world. Turkey in its diplomacy likes to pretend to be modern European, secular for the advantages it affords a fanatic muslim country.

In the muslim culture lies and deceptions are accepted for adaptive expediency to fool outsiders. In general travelers notice how deceptive Turks and other muslims tend to be.

Turkey will sign hudna peace agreements even though long-term peace with the unbelievers is against Islam.

[zan]

Maybe some here will reflect on what this story is really about and see what we think about the "RoC"...But then again I doubt it.......

[Oracle]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

[BirKibrisli]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

[Oracle]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

Counter productive to your efforts to paint them as innocent misunderstood harbingers of peace?

[BirKibrisli]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

Counter productive to your efforts to paint them as innocent misunderstood harbingers of peace?

Show me where in my thousands of posts I try to paint Turks and the TCs as innocent/misunderstood harbingers of peace...Or forever hold your peace!!!!

[Oracle]

Really Bir ... your evangelical worship of the Turkish psyche speaks volumes for your Turkish-worthiness. I suppose it is your true opinion and not what you feel you MUST say

Either they are like everybody else and so should abide by the same code as everyone else, or indeed they are so "different" as you suggest, and so should be treated differently, as special cases. How privileged in that case, then are we, to have such uniqueness as the pliable Turkish race amongst us! And with you Bir, providing a most illuminating and superior character reference for them.

The Turks are surely the yardstick of our humanity; a barometer of how civilised the rest of us are ..... the more we bend to their whims, the nicer they are. Dare we oppose such righteousness?

Oracle,you must know what they say about sarcasm and its relationship to one's level of wit...So I won't go there...

Stop exaggerating and distorting what I said...I have an insight to the Turkish mentality,and I am simply giving you the benefit of it..
Turks are no more special than any other nationality on earth..But they are different,like we all are,and if you want to deal with them effectively and profitably for your cause,best to take that into account..

They do not take kindly to insults or threats...That makes them more insular and less trusting....Hence suspicious and aggresive...Nothing to do with levels of humanity or degree of civility...Just a matter of social psychology...The best way to deal with people who have paranoid and self-aggrandisment tendencies is softly softly...That is all I am saying...

Bir ... why do you label every negative comment about Turkey as Turkey-bashing? Are the BBC just Turkey-bashing? Was Hrant Dink just Turkey-bashing?

Turkey are not above reproach. They (Turkey / Ataturk) chose to become Westernised ... but in "name" only it seems!

Have you watched the video? .... kindly comment on that and stop trying to silence ALL the messengers. Sometimes you have to stop and listen to what is being said before you rush to stick them back on their pedestal!

Yes,I did watch the video...It is a fairly ordinary example of a Journalist's attempt to highlight one aspect of the Turkish psyche...It is not Turkey-bashing....Hrant Dink was a Turkish citizen of Armenian background...He loved his country and had every right to criticise her shortcomings...He was not Turkey-bashing....What YOU are doing is Turkey- bashing...You have no understanding or respect or tolerance for the Turkish society or culture..Your whole aim is to dig up as many negative comments,opinions,diatribes against Turks and the TCs and try to present them in the worse light possible...That is Turkey/TC- bashing,in my opinion a counter productive occupation which does nothing to promote the conditions necessary for a just and viable solution to Cyprob...

Counter productive to your efforts to paint them as innocent misunderstood harbingers of peace?

Show me where in my thousands of posts I try to paint Turks and the TCs as innocent/misunderstood harbingers of peace...Or forever hold your peace!!!!

First of all you dragged in the TCs whereas I have stuck to discussing the Turks, but fine if you wish to group them as inseparable.

Secondly, just look at your first response in this thread and tell me what kind of picture you are trying to portray with telling us the Turks would give us the shirt off their backs!