Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

GR,

The size of a ship has no bearing on its seaworthiness. The Roman Empire did quite well using small ships for cummunication and trade, the Greeks would certainly have done it a few years earlier.

In the present day, fishing vessels of about 60 feet are the main ship type for fishing and they go out in all weathers. They are not comfortable but they are very safe.

So the shipt type is not an obsacle to the spread of Greeks in ancient times. They had colonies as far afield as Marseiles and often went to England for silver and tin. Cyprus would have been no problem for them.

[Piratis]

From the whole article, the only scientific fact (if the method used is precise), is that genetically Cypriots are not related to the Phoenicians any more than any other people in the whole Eastern Mediterranean region. Interesting how some people choose to see this research in regards to the relation of Phoenicians to Cypriots as "a glass 1/17th full", instead of "a glass 16/17ths empty" and tried to reverse what this study proves.

As I said many times, ethnicity is not about genes. It is about a common identity which is based on things like a common language, religion, culture and traditions.

Some people talk as if these things were created by a single person at one specific time and place in history, and everybody of that ethnicity is simply the decedents of that person who multiplied though incest. (the "original" one must have been hermaphrodite as well!). Such argument is ridiculous.

Language, religions and cultures where created by the cooperation of different people over long periods of time. There was nothing "genetically pure" about it, and there is no single point of origin.

If we use genetics as a way to find our origin then our origin will be in Africa, and going a bit further back, to some monkeys. In fact about 98% of our genes are the same with the ones of the Chimpanzees.

Cyprus was not a place that an already developed Greek civilization was introduced. Cyprus was one of the origins of this civilization, and as research shows Cyprus was the place where our ancestors, the ancient Greeks of Cyprus, created the Greek Alphabet, at a time when mainland Greece was in dark ages and its population totally illiterate.

So not only we belong to the Greek ethnicity because we speak Greek, have a Greek religion and Greek customs, but also we are one of the origins of this ethnicity and this civilization.

There was a time that there were no "Greeks" or "French" or "Egyptians". These civilizations were created just some 1000s years ago which is very very recent if you consider that humans inhabited this planet for many millions of years. So GR should understand that all humans have some Chirokitians or equivalent as their ancestors. But we didn't stop at single village settlements. We progressed and helped to create something much bigger.

Lastly I will tell you what I said in another thread. You think we can create some "Cypriot Ethnicity" and that this is required to solve our problem. I would agree with you if you said "Cypriot Nation" because there are many multi-ethnic nations. A unified Cypriot Nation is indeed what we need.

But how can we create a single ethnicity out of people who speak different languages and have different religions? Do you have any real examples of such ethnicities elsewhere? Turkey used to call the Kurds as "Mountain Turks" and deny to them their ethnicity and forced them to speak only Turkish, but I am sure what you want is not to force anybody to give up his language or religion in order to create this "single ethnicity". Even if we say that we are not Greeks, and the TCs say that they are not Turks, there would still be two (and many more) ethnicities on the island since we would speak different languages and have different religions.

Unity in Cyprus will not come by trying to square the circle and create a single ethnicity out of people who speak different language and have different religions. This is something that is simply impossible unless we follow fascist methods.

How we can create unity is by having a Cypriot Nation that everybody is proud for which will matter to Cypriots more than any ethnicity. Not only we should not try to oppress any linguistic, religious or other differences, but these differences should be accepted and respected.

[Free Spirit]

Genetic detective work could snap the Greek link
By Elias Hazou

That's it you're all Arabs; there'll be camels al over the place now, scrap plans for the donkey farm soon it'll be camel cigs, camel hair coats, Sopwith Camel planes, how do you like your camel; one hump or two?
can you imagine Get Ali Ben Real.

[denizaksulu]

DNA aside even, that Greeks have sabotaged certain parts of the history of the Mediterranean is well known by taking advantage of the fact that surrounding countries didn’t really care as much about the past to counter it, but for us Cypriots it has a special significance due to our current predicament and I’m sure that much will surface as studies continue.

Even in this day, Greece would have enormous problems supporting a war on Cyprus with her modern navy due to the great distance between the two countries crippling logistics let alone 3-4 thousands of years ago when boats were most sea unworthy and trade routes most flimsy. Most boats that would set off on a long journey never made it.

The notion of a Greek mainland relationship with Cyprus via the flimsy boats of the past is fast disintegrating…

I wonder if an analogy can be drawn viv a vis the 'Conquistadores' of the xivth Centyry in Central and South America. Spanish and Portuguese language and culture dominate the whole of South and Central America.

Imagine , just a few hundred bloodthirty Iberian soldiers and missionary's; what they are capable of.

[Oracle]

From the whole article, the only scientific fact (if the method used is precise), is that genetically Cypriots are not related to the Phoenicians any more than any other people in the whole Eastern Mediterranean region. Interesting how some people choose to see this research in regards to the relation of Phoenicians to Cypriots as "a glass 1/17th full", instead of "a glass 16/17ths empty" and tried to reverse what this study proves.

As I said many times, ethnicity is not about genes. It is about a common identity which is based on things like a common language, religion, culture and traditions.

Some people talk as if these things were created by a single person at one specific time and place in history, and everybody of that ethnicity is simply the decedents of that person who multiplied though incest. (the "original" one must have been hermaphrodite as well!). Such argument is ridiculous.

Language, religions and cultures where created by the cooperation of different people over long periods of time. There was nothing "genetically pure" about it, and there is no single point of origin.

If we use genetics as a way to find our origin then our origin will be in Africa, and going a bit further back, to some monkeys. In fact about 98% of our genes are the same with the ones of the Chimpanzees.

Cyprus was not a place that an already developed Greek civilization was introduced. Cyprus was one of the origins of this civilization, and as research shows Cyprus was the place where our ancestors, the ancient Greeks of Cyprus, created the Greek Alphabet, at a time when mainland Greece was in dark ages and its population totally illiterate.

So not only we belong to the Greek ethnicity because we speak Greek, have a Greek religion and Greek customs, but also we are one of the origins of this ethnicity and this civilization.

There was a time that there were no "Greeks" or "French" or "Egyptians". These civilizations were created just some 1000s years ago which is very very recent if you consider that humans inhabited this planet for many millions of years. So GR should understand that all humans have some Chirokitians or equivalent as their ancestors. But we didn't stop at single village settlements. We progressed and helped to create something much bigger.

Lastly I will tell you what I said in another thread. You think we can create some "Cypriot Ethnicity" and that this is required to solve our problem. I would agree with you if you said "Cypriot Nation" because there are many multi-ethnic nations. A unified Cypriot Nation is indeed what we need.

But how can we create a single ethnicity out of people who speak different languages and have different religions? Do you have any real examples of such ethnicities elsewhere? Turkey used to call the Kurds as "Mountain Turks" and deny to them their ethnicity and forced them to speak only Turkish, but I am sure what you want is not to force anybody to give up his language or religion in order to create this "single ethnicity". Even if we say that we are not Greeks, and the TCs say that they are not Turks, there would still be two (and many more) ethnicities on the island since we would speak different languages and have different religions.

Unity in Cyprus will not come by trying to square the circle and create a single ethnicity out of people who speak different language and have different religions. This is something that is simply impossible unless we follow fascist methods.

How we can create unity is by having a Cypriot Nation that everybody is proud for which will matter to Cypriots more than any ethnicity. Not only we should not try to oppress any linguistic, religious or other differences, but these differences should be accepted and respected.

This is breathtaking in its clarity and vision.

[Piratis]

DNA aside even, that Greeks have sabotaged certain parts of the history of the Mediterranean is well known by taking advantage of the fact that surrounding countries didn’t really care as much about the past to counter it, but for us Cypriots it has a special significance due to our current predicament and I’m sure that much will surface as studies continue.

Even in this day, Greece would have enormous problems supporting a war on Cyprus with her modern navy due to the great distance between the two countries crippling logistics let alone 3-4 thousands of years ago when boats were most sea unworthy and trade routes most flimsy. Most boats that would set off on a long journey never made it.

The notion of a Greek mainland relationship with Cyprus via the flimsy boats of the past is fast disintegrating…

I wonder if an analogy can be drawn viv a vis the 'Conquistadores' of the xivth Centyry in Central and South America. Spanish and Portuguese language and culture dominate the whole of South and Central America.

Imagine , just a few hundred bloodthirty Iberian soldiers and missionary's; what they are capable of.

The Greeks who came to Cyprus didn't come as invaders, but created their own settlements on uninhabited land and gradually assimilated with others that were here and those that came after. (just like it happened with the rest of Greece).

The analogy however can be drawn between the 'Conquistadores' and the Ottomans. They both existed at about the same period, and were both empire builder warriors, who invaded foreign lands and foreign civilizations and tried to enslave and exploit them.

What happened in South America is what happened in Asia Minor. You just have to look at the modern Turks to realize that they have very little to do with the original Turks who were Asian from Mongolia.

Turkish Cypriots are a result of the same process.

Still, since Turks speak Turkish, they are Muslim and they identify themselves as "Turks", we do not question their Turkishness, even though they obviously have very little (if any) genetic links to the original Asian Mongolian Turks.

[Get Real!]

DNA aside even, that Greeks have sabotaged certain parts of the history of the Mediterranean is well known by taking advantage of the fact that surrounding countries didn’t really care as much about the past to counter it, but for us Cypriots it has a special significance due to our current predicament and I’m sure that much will surface as studies continue.

Even in this day, Greece would have enormous problems supporting a war on Cyprus with her modern navy due to the great distance between the two countries crippling logistics let alone 3-4 thousands of years ago when boats were most sea unworthy and trade routes most flimsy. Most boats that would set off on a long journey never made it.

The notion of a Greek mainland relationship with Cyprus via the flimsy boats of the past is fast disintegrating…

I wonder if an analogy can be drawn viv a vis the 'Conquistadores' of the xivth Centyry in Central and South America. Spanish and Portuguese language and culture dominate the whole of South and Central America.

Imagine , just a few hundred bloodthirty Iberian soldiers and missionary's; what they are capable of.

The Greeks who came to Cyprus didn't come as invaders, but created their own settlements on uninhabited land and gradually assimilated with others that were here and those that came after. (just like it happened with the rest of Greece).

Much of the Mycenaean traits are still shrouded in mystery and we can only assume to fill in the many blank spots. If we are to believe that the Mycenaeans were a warring people who attacked Troy for her strategic location among other places, as claimed by various websites, and based upon drawings found of hunting and warring scenes on various ancient Mycenaean paraphernalia, then it is safe to assume that they may well have attacked Cyprus too perhaps for its valuable copper deposits.

Settlements are not created overnight so they cannot be used to soften the blow of a sudden appearance of a foreign people on the island.

[FreeSpirit]

The notion of a Greek mainland relationship with Cyprus via the flimsy boats of the past is fast disintegrating…

The boats tended to follow the coast line; Cyprus was idealy located for boats crossing the short stretch of water from Turkey.