Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Should we endlessly punish Turkey for all her transgressions of the last 500 years?

When have you punished us for anything whatsoever?

Are you enjoying pleading for EU entry?

[Get Real!]

Licking your wounds. And it is Minoan/Mycenaean/Choirokitian arse to you. But from you I will accept "SIR Paphiti".

SIR-cumcised is more appropriate...

[Oracle]

Very intersting indeed, if you would care to waste one grey cell over it. No wonder it was taken from an ultra nationalist, fascist web site.

The source of the article was from this newspaper.

http://www.paron.gr/v3/

The article was emailed to me by a Cyprus Lobby Group that is active within Australian Political circles.

I searched for a link by pasting the Greek text in www.google.gr and the first site that came was that blog, followed by www.paron.gr.

The mere fact that it was president Sarkozy who suggested that Greece should take a more dogmatic approach, is something that should be taken very seriously. Unless you are suggesting that President Sarkozy is an extremist fascist.

The other point is that France is standing by our side. So we are hardly weak when we have very powerful allies such as France.

Dismiss it at your own peril. But the fact is, these negotiations are hardly proving a success. Turkey is not compromising 1 inch despite our friendly approach. it is time to change tact, and return to past dogmatism. Turkey must be made to realise that her non cooperative stance towards finding a solution to the Cyprus Problem will come at a cost and this cost will be non EU membership.

This is confirmatory news and very welcome. Somebody has to make a stand for the MAIN reason Turkey does not belong in the EU ... its non-recognition of RoC and military occupation of an EU member state.

Paphitis can you expand on "dogmatic"?

Greece has been showing a bit too much tolerance towards Turkey despite Turkey still occupying Cyprus. President Karamanlis has forged improved bilateral relations with Turkey, and has been supportive towards Turkey's EU aspirations. President Sarkozy, as far as I understand, is criticising Greece for this unproductive Foreign Policy towards Turkey. We have not achieved anything from this stance, and this can be seen from the unacceptable demands that Turkey has made such as loose BBF with Guarantor Treaties, separate FIR, and territorial waters for the Turkish Cypriot Federated State. In other words legalised partition.

France is providing a lot of moral support to Greece, and has basically stated that they will be behind us should we be less tolerant of Turkey's EU aspirations. And whilst Turkey still occupies Cyprus, our stance should be much tougher until Turkey actually cooperates and takes action that would achieve a just and viable solution based on equality of all citizens in Cyprus.

Well I think Kifeas made the point that Turkey could be allowed into the EU, obviously once it withdraws from Cyprus, recognises the RoC and makes no guarantor claims. So Greece is forging positive relationships as a goodwill gesture to accommodate Turkey towards EU ascension, pending its withdrawal from Cyprus. The worry is if Turkey senses France (and Germany) would not give it its prize of EU entry, even if it did withdraw from Cyprus, because of their anti Muslim/huge impoverished population stance against Turkey.

So I think Greece, may be more willing to sacrifice EU "face" for the ultimate goal of allowing Cyprus to regain freedom from the Turks, but it is something that France would not.

[kurupetos]

With all due respect to one and all, and bearing in mind my political ignorance, if Karamanlis is the President of Greece, where does Karolos Papoulias fit in to the picture

karamanlis is the PM

Really?

[Viewpoint]

Why does France push Greece forward and not take a stand herself, Greece is no fool she knows that better relations with Turkeys means better economics so I dont think they be bullied around by a mad Frenchman who has no credibility within the EU and should not be taken very seriously, their ploy is to force a thorn in the side of Turkey namely Greece and stand on the side lines clapping but doing nothing to help.

[Nikitas]

France can do one simple thing to cinvince Greece of her sincerity regarding the oustanding issues in Greek-Turkish relations:

announce that France recognises a 12 mile limit for Greek territorial waters. Nothing more.

But like times past the EU wants Greece to be the front man and thus attribute keeping Turkey out of the EU to Greece's policy. This was stopped by Greece in 1992 and it will not happen again.

Greece has asked for solidarity from EU partners in something far simpler- the smuggling of people from the Turkish coast to the nearby Greek islands like Lesbos and Chios, but so far no substantial help has come in what is a humanitarian issue which has consequences in all EU countries.

[waldorf]

With all due respect to one and all, and bearing in mind my political ignorance, if Karamanlis is the President of Greece, where does Karolos Papoulias fit in to the picture

karamanlis is the PM

D.T. the opening thread of this subject indicates quite clearly that Karamanlis is the President of Greece. You say he is the P.M.. Correct.
Then who is Papoulias ? Is there a suggestion here that Sarkozy doesn't know who he is talking to ?

[Kifeas]

With all due respect to one and all, and bearing in mind my political ignorance, if Karamanlis is the President of Greece, where does Karolos Papoulias fit in to the picture

karamanlis is the PM

D.T. the opening thread of this subject indicates quite clearly that Karamanlis is the President of Greece. You say he is the P.M.. Correct.
Then who is Papoulias ? Is there a suggestion here that Sarkozy doesn't know who he is talking to ?

In France, the president is the head (leader) of the country, and the one that has the power of making international agreements or representing France internationally. The Prime minister is merely the head of the ministerial council and the government. The real power is mostly in the hands of the president. In Greece it is quite the opposite. The president is merely a figurehead, with very little power. More like the Queen of england. The real power is in the hands of the Prime minister, who is responsible to also make international agreements and run the country.

[DT.]

With all due respect to one and all, and bearing in mind my political ignorance, if Karamanlis is the President of Greece, where does Karolos Papoulias fit in to the picture

karamanlis is the PM

D.T. the opening thread of this subject indicates quite clearly that Karamanlis is the President of Greece. You say he is the P.M.. Correct.
Then who is Papoulias ? Is there a suggestion here that Sarkozy doesn't know who he is talking to ?

More like the writer of the article doesn't know who is who.

[Paphitis]

With all due respect to one and all, and bearing in mind my political ignorance, if Karamanlis is the President of Greece, where does Karolos Papoulias fit in to the picture

karamanlis is the PM

D.T. the opening thread of this subject indicates quite clearly that Karamanlis is the President of Greece. You say he is the P.M.. Correct.
Then who is Papoulias ? Is there a suggestion here that Sarkozy doesn't know who he is talking to ?

My apologies for the confusion. The article actually acknowledges Karamanlis as Prime Minister, and I made the error just out of pure habit.

The President in Greece is largely a ceremonial position as head of state, whilst in certain other countries the head of state could be a crown monarch. Papoulias is Greece's President and Head of State whilst Karamanlis is the Prime Minister and is responsible for the Governance of Greece and her Foreign Policy direction.