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Enosis - the moribund dream

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Enosis - the moribund dream

Postby observer » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:31 pm

Oracle wrote here ( http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus20790-110.html ), and I summarize, that it was people like MrH, who think Cyprus has a "Dream for Enosis". That is the backward outdated style of thinking.

I replied:
I mostly think that you are right about the GCs dream for Enosis, but can you blame even the most trusting of people having a small amount of suspicion that an idea that has been fervently fought for since the begining of the nineteen century, or even earlier, with many lives lost, should suddenly been disavowed the moment Turkish troops made it impossible to achieve.

For this reason, most TCs would prefer to keep Turkey as a guarantor.


Oracle replied:
I don't think it was the Turkish troops which made Enosis impossible to achieve but the mindset of the GCs who had abandoned this notion once full self-determination became the prime goal after 1960. This was demonstrated by their strong opposition and fight against the coupists. All the evidence was there, and not because of some personal act of opportunism by Turkey. Finally the RoC is stronger than ever as an independent state but healthily allied to Greece, as also to many other countries, and it is Turkey which stands alone, alienated because of its present stance to the RoC.

Furthermore, as you rightly suggest, it is the TCs that are failing to appreciate this fundamental difference in the "here and now", and what was a historical blip, albeit it lengthy.


Did GCs abandon enosis after 1960 and was it a historical blip?

From 1960 to 1967 the majority of GC leaders were demanding enosis. The infamous Akritas Plan is one piece of evidence. As late as June 1967 the House of Representatives, by now a totally GC House, unanimously passed a resolution which read:

The House of Representatives announcing its irrevocable decision reflects the eternal aspiration of the Greek Cypriot community for the speedy achievement of Enosis.
a. No matter what difficulties and hardships are encountered the struggle being waged with the full support of the Hellenic world will not be terminated until the final goal is successfully achieved. By ‘success’ it is meant that the whole of the island will be integrated with Greece without any stop-overs.
b. The House will contribute with all means at its disposal for the strengthening of the Cyprus – Greek co-operation, which is considered an inevitable condition for the success of the national struggle and the unity of the Greek and Cypriot people.

Many, though far from a large majority, GC politicians did quieten their demands for enosis after 1967, but in my opinion this was more to do with the Greek coup of 1967 bringing to power the Greek junta than “self determination becoming the prime goal after 1960’. It was more a case of not wanting to join the Greek junta rather than not wanting to unite with Greece. Not all politicians gave up their dream of enosis, however, as the coup of 1974 showed.

Whether or not the coup would have succeeded without the intervention of Turkey is debatable. I believe that it probably would have done since by the evening of 19th July all the major cities and radio stations were in coupist hands, Makarios had fled the country, Sampson had been declared president and Greece showed its willingness to intervene by shelling Pafos and later landing soldiers at Nicosia Airport. After calling for enosis for a century and a half, enosis would have been welcomed, or at least accepted, by the vast majority of GCs. The dream of enosis was far from a historical blip, and it was only the intervention of Turkey made enosis impossible.

I am quite happy to reiterate that a generation after 1974, I don’t think that enosis is an aspiration for any but a tiny minority of GCs now, but the rewriting of history by Oracle and others to make it seem that all along GCs were fighting for independence, and they gave up any idea of union with Greece after achieving independence is not helpful in persuading me that I would prefer a GC guarantee to a Turkish one.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:52 pm

That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their country and nothing else.
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:05 pm

Man you are caught in a time warp!

Enosis has become irrelevant. And your failure to perceive the why and how shows that you are still trapped in 1950s thinking.

I am not going to explain it further. Your using this medium to post should tell you enough about the changes in the world that lead to the obsolence of Enosis, I hope. If not, then you have a big problem.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:07 pm

Nikitas wrote:Man you are caught in a time warp!

Enosis has become irrelevant. And your failure to perceive the why and how shows that you are still trapped in 1950s thinking.

I am not going to explain it further. Your using this medium to post should tell you enough about the changes in the world that lead to the obsolence of Enosis, I hope. If not, then you have a big problem.

Are you talking to me?
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:12 pm

Get Real! wrote:That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their country and nothing else.


What a load of rubbish. :roll:

Why would Cypriots desire ENOSIS?

Cyprus has become successful and can stand on her own feet.
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Postby observer » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:14 pm

Get Real! wrote:That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their country and nothing else.


Your view I certainly respect.

I note that elsewhere you identify me as one of the 'Ottoman Remnants'. Due to my age I might be considered a remnant, but I'm less Ottoman than you probably think.

I would love to see a united Cyprus where your background and language count for less than non-nationalistic politics and ability. Where we differ, I believe, is that I don't think this admirable state of affairs is possible now because of our history. I don't believe there would be an upsurge of violence and a demand for enosis from GCs any more than I believe that there is any demand for taksim or wish to invade the South. I do think though that there is enough (more than enough actually) latent hostility that economical and political 'warfare' will occur if we become one unitary island. As I have said elsewhere, I think that a BBF, agreed by both is in everone's interest since self-interest would draw GC and TC closer together.

On a larger scale this is what happened to the United States and is happening to Europe now.
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Postby Nikitas » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:26 pm

Ask a Texan what he thinks of a New Yorker, and vice versa, then you will hear some interesting racist comments. So the hostility, bigotry etc attached to local origin is not exclusive to us Cypriots. More to the point, what do Paphos TCs think of Nicosia TCs?

Having an opinion and an attitude about others based on (mostly false) perceptions is OK. As long as there are no attempts to dominate or bring about unacceptable state of affairs.
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Postby MrH » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:32 pm

A non-BBF formula, or non-two-state formula, for those that can read between the lines, is obviously a formula for Majority Rule! And that is in my view Enosis (Another Greek island) for the GCs.

GC Rule under a strong GC dominated Central government with two non-autonomous Cantons (which is what Chris is seeking) = Eventual Enosis


If that's not repackaged Enosis......
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Postby MR-from-NG » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:32 pm

Get Real! wrote:That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their
country and nothing else.


TCs included? or are we amongst (including the Turkic traitors) this group?
Last edited by MR-from-NG on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:53 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:
Get Real! wrote:That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their
country and nothing else.


TCs included?

YES!

Where the hell have you been???? :D :lol:
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