Cyprus-Forum.com

[iceman]

Finally, some action!!

Let us know when you're next down mate. I owe you some heinekens.

soon....very soon...

[Piratis]

...

[Piratis]

A liberated Cyprus naturally meant that Cyprus would become part of the the free Greek state which until then incorporated all other Greek territories and islands that had been liberated from foreign rulers.

The sole reason that this didn't happen was the geopolitical interests of UK and Turkey which wanted control over Cyprus and they didn't want to allow Greece to become more powerful. The TC minority was simply used as an excuse by them in order to achieve their aim. Before the era of UN, decolonization and human rights, the UK, Turkey (and others) could invade and occupy Cyprus without having to explain anything. At that time it was accepted that the strong could straggle the weak. After WWII they had to find some excuse in order to continue to deny to the Cypriot people their self-determination, and the excuse they decided to use was the Muslim minority of Cyprus, in a classic way of divide and rule that had been used numerous time before elsewhere.

Makarios understood that he could not go against the geopolitical interests of those powers, and that is why he was the first to propose independence. Unfortunately what Cyprus was given was not a full independence. We were not even allowed to contribute even the slightest to our own constitution!

This is why the 1960 agreements didn't work. If we were given a true independence and a true democracy, then nobody would mind this equally acceptable form of liberation.

Today, we have a true democracy and in the free areas we achieved a higher degree of independence. Things work right, our economy is expanding, and in many respects we are better off than mainland Greece. So the vast majority of people simply don't want union with Greece anymore.

This will continue if a true solution, with true democracy is found, which will be functional and will allow the Cypriot people to continue to progress.

[Nikitas]

OK, let me wave my magic wand and make all obstacles to Enosis disappear. Would Greece be ready to accept Cyprus as additional territory? I think not.

Modern Greece is a self limiting nation, and modern Greek politicians are small thinkers. The prospect of Greece becoming a middle Eastern power with all the added responsibilities scares them. They would probably refuse Enosis. That is my take on the situation.

[Get Real!]

A liberated Cyprus naturally meant that Cyprus would become part of the the free Greek state which until then incorporated all other Greek territories and islands that had been liberated from foreign rulers.

The sole reason that this didn't happen was the geopolitical interests of UK and Turkey which wanted control over Cyprus and they didn't want to allow Greece to become more powerful.

Greece was offered Cyprus on two occasions and she rejected us... something to do with our lack of Mycenaean blood I suspect...

[T_C]

Enosis dead?

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=#368788

Yialousa doesn't count. All his posts suggest he is a troll supplying pro-Turkish propaganda by pretending to be a (half ) GC.

Besides you are reading more into this by refusing to accept what we have logically come to accept from the 60s, and furthermore, since politically, we are better off in the EU as separate, independent entities.

Why would anyone give that up? ... You are only hanging on to Enosis as an excuse, just to make yourselves feel better or justify having already (illegally) attained "enosis" with Turkey, albeit by offering Turkey, other peoples' lands.

What a load of rubbish.

Why doesn't he count? And does him being a Turk make the videos less real?

Anything you don't like "doesn't count", and you're so quick to revert back to blaming the Turks to try cloud peoples judgement (like a psychological coupist).

It's not us hanging onto Enosis, but you and your cronies.
Don't blame us because we can see through your blue and white veils...

And don't forget we have people over in our side who preach about the motherland and how similar we are. You're just their Greek doubles, and we know how these people work, so we know what your real intentions are.

[BirKibrisli]

That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their
country and nothing else.

TCs included?

YES!

Where the hell have you been????

Hi mate,

So nice of you to ask. Health problems but getting better, off to the post office now, talk in a while. Really missed all you guys

You still using snail mail? We miss you too mate... catch you soon.

Maybe he's picking up his pension

Welcome back MR-From-NG .... mind the vernacular now! I am the CyProb President

Oh oh .... maybe you only know me as Phoenix

Wow Phoneix, in fact I will now call you Oracle, thanks for the welcome, how are you? You may find this hard to believe but I even miss you

Not ready for a pension yet, though my body is well past its sell by date. I will make more time and post some of my experiences of late with some of the scum in the north. They have made my life hell and will name and shame them in posts to come. Watch this space

Great to see you back and posting,MR...
I for one am looking forward to reading your objective accounts of life in the North...I still have not managed to visit the place,but I am working on it...Remember,as the only TC I have met through this Forum,you have a special place in my heart...I hope the health scares are not related to smoking...I told you give it up 2 years ago... Take good care,mate...

[Kifeas]

Oracle wrote here ( http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus20790-110.html ), and I summarize, that it was people like MrH, who think Cyprus has a "Dream for Enosis". That is the backward outdated style of thinking.

I replied:

I mostly think that you are right about the GCs dream for Enosis, but can you blame even the most trusting of people having a small amount of suspicion that an idea that has been fervently fought for since the begining of the nineteen century, or even earlier, with many lives lost, should suddenly been disavowed the moment Turkish troops made it impossible to achieve.

For this reason, most TCs would prefer to keep Turkey as a guarantor.

Oracle replied:

I don't think it was the Turkish troops which made Enosis impossible to achieve but the mindset of the GCs who had abandoned this notion once full self-determination became the prime goal after 1960. This was demonstrated by their strong opposition and fight against the coupists. All the evidence was there, and not because of some personal act of opportunism by Turkey. Finally the RoC is stronger than ever as an independent state but healthily allied to Greece, as also to many other countries, and it is Turkey which stands alone, alienated because of its present stance to the RoC.

Furthermore, as you rightly suggest, it is the TCs that are failing to appreciate this fundamental difference in the "here and now", and what was a historical blip, albeit it lengthy.

Did GCs abandon enosis after 1960 and was it a historical blip?

From 1960 to 1967 the majority of GC leaders were demanding enosis. The infamous Akritas Plan is one piece of evidence. As late as June 1967 the House of Representatives, by now a totally GC House, unanimously passed a resolution which read:

The House of Representatives announcing its irrevocable decision reflects the eternal aspiration of the Greek Cypriot community for the speedy achievement of Enosis.
a. No matter what difficulties and hardships are encountered the struggle being waged with the full support of the Hellenic world will not be terminated until the final goal is successfully achieved. By ‘success’ it is meant that the whole of the island will be integrated with Greece without any stop-overs.
b. The House will contribute with all means at its disposal for the strengthening of the Cyprus – Greek co-operation, which is considered an inevitable condition for the success of the national struggle and the unity of the Greek and Cypriot people.

Many, though far from a large majority, GC politicians did quieten their demands for enosis after 1967, but in my opinion this was more to do with the Greek coup of 1967 bringing to power the Greek junta than “self determination becoming the prime goal after 1960’. It was more a case of not wanting to join the Greek junta rather than not wanting to unite with Greece. Not all politicians gave up their dream of enosis, however, as the coup of 1974 showed.

Whether or not the coup would have succeeded without the intervention of Turkey is debatable. I believe that it probably would have done since by the evening of 19th July all the major cities and radio stations were in coupist hands, Makarios had fled the country, Sampson had been declared president and Greece showed its willingness to intervene by shelling Pafos and later landing soldiers at Nicosia Airport. After calling for enosis for a century and a half, enosis would have been welcomed, or at least accepted, by the vast majority of GCs. The dream of enosis was far from a historical blip, and it was only the intervention of Turkey made enosis impossible.

I am quite happy to reiterate that a generation after 1974, I don’t think that enosis is an aspiration for any but a tiny minority of GCs now, but the rewriting of history by Oracle and others to make it seem that all along GCs were fighting for independence, and they gave up any idea of union with Greece after achieving independence is not helpful in persuading me that I would prefer a GC guarantee to a Turkish one.

Observer and the rest, what enosis (=union) and other green horses are you all talking about? Are you still there? Enosis has already been materialized, and in a much greater and important scheme than even us GCs have ever imagined. We went for enosis with Greece, which was basically an absorption by Greece as a province; and not only we have not lost such a battle –as you imagine or claim- but instead we have achieved something much-much better, which was enosis (=union) of the whole of Cyprus with the entire EU (including Greece,) and on top of that, on an equal footing as co-partners! You, TC, on the other hand, not only you have lost the battle and have not achieved your leadership’s and motherland’s partition dream (since already the whole of Cyprus has legally become part of the EU,) but instead you have managed to partly become swallowed by Turkey, and put your motherland in a very awkward situation! And many of you (including some GCs like Bananiot) still believe and fantasize that you have won the war in 1974. You only won a small battle in 1974, but badly lost all the consecutive ones, since then!

And you will lose many more battles in the future, which will geometrically lead you to your extinction as an entity, if you do not change your attitude, come to your senses, and stop asking for extremist, irredentist and illegitimate demands from the GCs in order to accept the reunification that will save your asses from what lies ahead of you! I tell you this as a friend, and only so!

[Kifeas]

Bananiot, do you happen to remember what Callaghan said to Gunes on the eve of the 14th of August 1974, when it became apparent that the reason he left the negotiating room in Geneva was to call Ecevit and tell him that "Ayse may take her vacations?" You do not remember this I am sure, since you only remember what suits you!

[Viewpoint]

Oracle wrote here ( http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus20790-110.html ), and I summarize, that it was people like MrH, who think Cyprus has a "Dream for Enosis". That is the backward outdated style of thinking.

I replied:

I mostly think that you are right about the GCs dream for Enosis, but can you blame even the most trusting of people having a small amount of suspicion that an idea that has been fervently fought for since the begining of the nineteen century, or even earlier, with many lives lost, should suddenly been disavowed the moment Turkish troops made it impossible to achieve.

For this reason, most TCs would prefer to keep Turkey as a guarantor.

Oracle replied:

I don't think it was the Turkish troops which made Enosis impossible to achieve but the mindset of the GCs who had abandoned this notion once full self-determination became the prime goal after 1960. This was demonstrated by their strong opposition and fight against the coupists. All the evidence was there, and not because of some personal act of opportunism by Turkey. Finally the RoC is stronger than ever as an independent state but healthily allied to Greece, as also to many other countries, and it is Turkey which stands alone, alienated because of its present stance to the RoC.

Furthermore, as you rightly suggest, it is the TCs that are failing to appreciate this fundamental difference in the "here and now", and what was a historical blip, albeit it lengthy.

Did GCs abandon enosis after 1960 and was it a historical blip?

From 1960 to 1967 the majority of GC leaders were demanding enosis. The infamous Akritas Plan is one piece of evidence. As late as June 1967 the House of Representatives, by now a totally GC House, unanimously passed a resolution which read:

The House of Representatives announcing its irrevocable decision reflects the eternal aspiration of the Greek Cypriot community for the speedy achievement of Enosis.
a. No matter what difficulties and hardships are encountered the struggle being waged with the full support of the Hellenic world will not be terminated until the final goal is successfully achieved. By ‘success’ it is meant that the whole of the island will be integrated with Greece without any stop-overs.
b. The House will contribute with all means at its disposal for the strengthening of the Cyprus – Greek co-operation, which is considered an inevitable condition for the success of the national struggle and the unity of the Greek and Cypriot people.

Many, though far from a large majority, GC politicians did quieten their demands for enosis after 1967, but in my opinion this was more to do with the Greek coup of 1967 bringing to power the Greek junta than “self determination becoming the prime goal after 1960’. It was more a case of not wanting to join the Greek junta rather than not wanting to unite with Greece. Not all politicians gave up their dream of enosis, however, as the coup of 1974 showed.

Whether or not the coup would have succeeded without the intervention of Turkey is debatable. I believe that it probably would have done since by the evening of 19th July all the major cities and radio stations were in coupist hands, Makarios had fled the country, Sampson had been declared president and Greece showed its willingness to intervene by shelling Pafos and later landing soldiers at Nicosia Airport. After calling for enosis for a century and a half, enosis would have been welcomed, or at least accepted, by the vast majority of GCs. The dream of enosis was far from a historical blip, and it was only the intervention of Turkey made enosis impossible.

I am quite happy to reiterate that a generation after 1974, I don’t think that enosis is an aspiration for any but a tiny minority of GCs now, but the rewriting of history by Oracle and others to make it seem that all along GCs were fighting for independence, and they gave up any idea of union with Greece after achieving independence is not helpful in persuading me that I would prefer a GC guarantee to a Turkish one.

Observer and the rest, what enosis (=union) and other green horses are you all talking about? Are you still there? Enosis has already been materialized, and in a much greater and important scheme than even us GCs have ever imagined. We went for enosis with Greece, which was basically an absorption by Greece as a province; and not only we have not lost such a battle –as you imagine or claim- but instead we have achieved something much-much better, which was enosis (=union) of the whole of Cyprus with the entire EU (including Greece,) and on top of that, on an equal footing as co-partners! You, TC, on the other hand, not only you have lost the battle and have not achieved your leadership’s and motherland’s partition dream (since already the whole of Cyprus has legally become part of the EU,) but instead you have managed to partly become swallowed by Turkey, and put your motherland in a very awkward situation! And many of you (including some GCs like Bananiot) still believe and fantasize that you have won the war in 1974. You only won a small battle in 1974, but badly lost all the consecutive ones, since then!

And you will lose many more battles in the future, which will geometrically lead you to your extinction as an entity, if you do not change your attitude, come to your senses, and stop asking for extremist, irredentist and illegitimate demands from the GCs in order to accept the reunification that will save your asses from what lies ahead of you! I tell you this as a friend, and only so!

So you have everything you want all you need now is more land and Turkey out of the way allowing you to use your numerical advantage to make our lives hell. What we choose to do with the unrecognized TRNC is our business and theres nothing you can do about it or you would of already done it whether we prosper or become more Turkish than Cypriot is our business as you must never forget we are also Turkish so you empty threats mean jack shit, we would rather become part of Turkey and 100% Turkish than be swallowed up by a solution that would allow GCs to walk all over us. When will you get that into your thick skull.