Cyprus-Forum.com

[Byron]

Yes, Nikitas can be so rude sometimes exposing dirty laundry...

Nikitas gives credit for Cyprus' EU Entry to a single man, Yiannos Kranidiotes, without mentioning that he was the FM of Greece (not Cyprus) and was using Greek diplomatic resources, nor does he mention the fact that Greece was on the brink of isolation within the EU, after threatening to veto the entry of all other countries if Cyprus was not accepted. Without Greece Cyprus would not be in the EU, period

That was exactly my point before the charade !

[Byron]

Hi Byron,

Thanks,

I would suggest, and according to the name given to such an important forum and read by many, it be monitored and foul comments and postings removed!

All discussions be based on not condemning other people's proposals by ganging up on them and then using foul-language, but to seek a meaningful explanation to their madness (suggestions).

For instance, I said that the TRNC operate internationally like the Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus, seeing that we fly to Ercan North Cyprus, we post our letters as Mersin 10, Turkey and etc. Obviously this truth is too much for the GCs to take in as it's obviously a reality, thus they resort to ridicule and condescending remarks, sometimes showing real anger and blasting foul comments. Although I am not surprised by their attitude, I was at least expecting a few to ask - are you happy with this scenario and how could we help you?

The GCs need to understand that there is a non-practical dream world where they own the island as the ROC - hijacked after 1974, and an island consisting of two states! They could at least argue perhaps the practical goings on on the island, like them having to use their Passport to cross over the border, and how we could perhaps work on a state by state Partnership basis, but this is obviously asking them too much. They suddenly blast words like - invasion, occupation and etc.

If these were true, do you not think there would have been an inter TRNC war by now! Obviously the GCs don't realise how close we TCs are to Turkey.

The GCs can ignore the realities all they like and even continue with their foul remarks against my postings, but the realities of the island have been in place since 1974! They need to stop dreaming up scenarios and start talking business, start talking about a solution based on Two States!

I would like to respond to your above reply.

Firstly I totally agree that it is unfortunate that most members at this forum revert to using foul language and silly comments.

You talk about the TRNC whereas we refer it as the illegal and occupied territory of the Cyprus Republic. You do not recognise the officiality of the Cyprus Republic whilst the rest of the world bar Pakistan does not recognise your so called "republic". We therefore have a problem and unless we understand the problem there can be no solution.

What is the problem ? Part of the cause lies with the creation of the Cyprus Republic. The Republic was never an idea of the Greek Cypriots as some people on this forum have come to believe. The official Macmillan papers of the 1950's recognised that by ceeding Cyprus to Greece would create a military problem for Britain in its relationship with Palestine. Hence the British came up with the idea of self determination also using the Turkish Cypriot minority of 15% as an issue to ensure the installation of military bases on the island.

Minorities have always existed in many countries, the Greeks in Anatolia, Kurds in Turkey etc... this does not mean that a Country must be divided. In fact Turkey uses this argument when discussing the current Kurdish issue.

During the so called British rule there was never a problem between the two "communities". Most villages were either Greek, Turkish or mixed. The mixed villages such as VATILI were divided into zones. So we lived apart each community minding its own business but interaction was common and civilised.

The day to day workings of the Cyprus Republic were unworkable as the Turkish Cypriot had power for circa 30% with only 15-18% of the population and the right of a veto. Many laws were either delayed or never passed. The rest is history and well covered by this forum.

How do we go forward; we Greeks continue to believe in the Cyprus Republic. What Republic ? the original government of 1960 or the government 1974. The existing one was unworkable and in the pre 1974 one the Turks had already pulled out.

I would therefore agree with your comment that returning to the original status quo is unthinkable. What are the alternatives, federalism, bi-zonal communities or perhaps partition. I dont know. The starting point is I believe that the Turkish side needs to make some immediate concessions. It cannot hold 34% of the land with its existing population. I am not too sure what it is now with all these new settlers. Why also is Famagusta my region a ghost town. Why do you refuse to return it after all these years.

We Greeks cannot come to terms with the existing situation because a) it did not arise out of natural causes i.e there was a invasion and subsequent war ( to liberate the Greek Cypriots !!! - Ecevit - some liberation ! ) b) Turkey repopulated the island to change the demographic ratio between Greeks and Turks and c) made 200,000 Greek Cypriot homeless.

So the starting point is that we urgently wish to see your proposals. We are not really interested in how you trade, fly or how you post your letters. We wish to see some immediate concessions.

[Nikitas]

I steal you wallet, then I return one of your credit cards and some change, and I call this a "concession". Interesting!

[repulsewarrior]

That there are many “Hellenic” traitors in Cyprus is an old story, and that some of them may still have wet Greek dreams is very likely, but be it known to you that among all the foreign scum here (including the Turkic traitors) there are plenty of GENUINE Cypriots who only have love and loyalty for their
country and nothing else.

TCs included?

YES!

Where the hell have you been????

(mr h in particular),

...but generally

please read my manifesto...

[rastan]

Hello everyone, I'm new here this is my first post on this forum, please be gentle with me! I'm English and live in London (please don't shoot me down as foreign scum) - in October I visited Cyprus for the first time in my life & I must say what an absolute paradise Cyprus is, I don't pretend to know anything about the politics of Cyprus but having read some of the comments on this forum surely placing blame on events that happened hundreds of years ago is not really helpfull??? The Romans invaded Britain 2 thousand years ago, does that mean I should dislike the Italians today?
To be perfectly honest I knew little or nothing about the history of Cyprus before myself and my family spent the best holiday we have ever had there, and we have visited some fantastic places before (South Africa, USA, Thailand, most countries in Europe).
Cyprus is a very special place (thats why I took the trouble to join this forum), it's time for all you Greek Cypriots & Turkish Cypriots to forget the past and look to the future - I understand it won't be easy for everyone, 1974 is not that long ago - you are so lucky to be living in a virtually crime free paradise. Here in London someone gets stabbed everyday and it hardly makes the news!
Thanksto you Cypriot people for making my family holiday so really nice, we will return to Cyprus next year and I hope you will have reached some sort of agreement by then!

[alexISS]

What is undeniable is the struggle he had to convince both Greece and Cyprus to go for EU membership.

I'm not sure that's the whole truth. It was actually Theodoros Pangalos, together with Kranidiotes, who struggled to convince the Cypriot President Vassileiou that applying for membership was the right thing to do.

And once they accepted it was all handed to him to deal with. It was his dedicated work which brought about the result.

Meeting the accession criteria was not too hard for Cyprus to achieve. The real obstacle was the unsolved Cyprus problem, which would be impossible to overcome had Greece not threatened to veto the whole expansion process, a very dangerous diplomatic move that could have catastrophic consequences. All these after Kranidiotes' unfortunate death.

Think of it this way- what would the FYROM issue be today if there was a man like Kranidiotes handling it with the same determination. That should clear any doubts.

Actually Kranidiotes WAS in the Greek cabinet during the peak of the name row with FYROM

[DT.]

What is undeniable is the struggle he had to convince both Greece and Cyprus to go for EU membership.

I'm not sure that's the whole truth. It was actually Theodoros Pangalos, together with Kranidiotes, who struggled to convince the Cypriot President Vassileiou that applying for membership was the right thing to do.

And once they accepted it was all handed to him to deal with. It was his dedicated work which brought about the result.

Meeting the accession criteria was not too hard for Cyprus to achieve. The real obstacle was the unsolved Cyprus problem, which would be impossible to overcome had Greece not threatened to veto the whole expansion process, a very dangerous diplomatic move that could have catastrophic consequences. All these after Kranidiotes' unfortunate death.

Think of it this way- what would the FYROM issue be today if there was a man like Kranidiotes handling it with the same determination. That should clear any doubts.

Actually Kranidiotes WAS in the Greek cabinet during the peak of the name row with FYROM

If I remember correctly the govts suicidal policy against FYROM is what made Samaras quit from Foregn Minister.

[alexISS]

If I remember correctly the govts suicidal policy against FYROM is what made Samaras quit from Foregn Minister.

Samaras quit (and overthrew the government) because he was bitter after being replaced

[alexISS]

I'm at an airport and do not have much time to get into the details of this but I'll just start byb reminding the gentleman that 2 of the largest Greek banks are CY owned. Marfin Laik and Bank of Cyprus.

I believe that Laiki bank was bought by Marfin Group (Greece), not the other way around. Marfin Group also came close to buying Bank of Cyprus as well if I remember correctly. I also have doubts about Bank of Cyprus being one of the largest Greek banks

[Nikitas]

Pangalos came round to agreeing with the goal of Cyprus in the EU, a goal which Kranidiotes had been pushing for since the early 80s.

When the position was set, it was left to Kranidiotes to pursue almost single handedly. And finally we agree that the Cyprus government too needed some shoving in that direction.