Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

14.11.2008

Ozcan Ozcanhan



President Talat and President Christofias have been negotiating for a mutually acceptable Cyprus settlement since 3 and 11 September.
The UN Secretary-General’s Special Advisor to Cyprus, Alexander Downer, has been trying to help them to his best ability.
The representatives of the two communities have committed themselves to work with goodwill to resolve the long outstanding problem. To allow the two negotiators to work quietly and comfortably a partial media blackout was agreed and UN Advisor Downer or the UN’s resident Special Representative for Cyprus have been informing the media on the progress in the talks, on their behalf.
However, at times Mr. Christofias and the Greek Cypriot media have been openly attacking the Turkish Cypriot leader, President Talat, and describing his sincere statements as “provocative.” They went so far as to portray President Talat as “a puppet of Ankara.”
A leading article in the Cyprus Mail on 5 November openly criticised President Christofias and the Greek Cypriot media and pointed to the fact that they were “poisoning the climate with attacks on Mr. Talat.”
“In fact, almost everything Talat says in relation to the Cyprus problem is referred to as a provocative comment. Even when he says something that makes perfect sense, it is usually misinterpreted or quoted out of context,” says the Cyprus Mail commentator.
The Greek Cypriot media and politicians, forgetting, or deliberately diverting attention, charge Mr. Talat with being an agent of Ankara and regularly briefing the Turkish government about the Cyprus talks. Do they not know, do they not see and do they believe that others also do not see that the Greek Cypriot political leaders, including Mr. Christofias, are in constant touch with Athens, seeking advice and guidance?
Why should President Talat not work with, and cooperate with, Ankara in honesty in the search for a fair and honourable solution of the Cyprus dispute? Can Talat not seek the views of the Turkish government; can he not have consultations with the Turkish leaders?
I fully agree with the Cyprus Mail comment that Mr. Talat is not Mr Denktas. “He does not resort to his predecessor’s obstructionist tactics or his uncompromising stance,” says the English language, Greek-Greek Cypriot owned newspaper. It refers to the behaviour of Tassos Papadopoulos and how he had refused to enter meaningful talks with President Talat.
“Mr. Christofias has done nothing to change the image that Talat is not interested in a settlement, whose sole objective is to secure recognition for the North and is using the peace process to achieve this aim, an image enthusiastically cultivated during the Papadopoulos years,” writes the paper.
Greek Cypriot politicians and the media should remember that Talat and his government backed the UN-drafted settlement plan in 2004 and that it was Papadopoulos and Christofias who had advocated its rejection by the Greek Cypriots. Mr. Talat is not a rejectionist and in no way another Denktas “with better public relations.” He, genuinely wants an honourable solution and with goodwill, is working for it.
If the Greek Cypriot side, equally, desires a fair and lasting settlement, it should adopt a “less hostile approach” leading to positive effects on the ongoing negotiations.
Otherwise, poisoning the atmosphere, with open, unfair, unbecoming and unwarranted attacks on President Talat, will lead to a hardening of positions and an eventual impasse. Is this what they want, so that Talat will abandon the negotiating table and bear the blame for the collapse of the talks.
I bet that Mr. Talat will not be the one to leave the table and put an end to the search for a solution. He will patiently and resolutely continue peace talks waiting for positive response from Greek Cypriot politicians and the media. It will take time and hard bargaining, as underlined by Mr. Alexander Downer. The Greek Cypriot political leaders as well as their ultra nationalistic media, must see and realise the difficulties and they must act with responsibility, like the Cyprus Mail commentators.
What we direly need is a calm, friendly and cordial atmosphere so that Talat and Christofias may direct their energy and attention to realistic bargaining to put an end to the Cyprus conflict.
The amicable and favourable climate should not be poisoned by the media or short-sighted politicians.

[paliometoxo]

well he is a puppet of ankara a blind man could see this...

[Bananiot]

A wise article by the Cyprus Mail as always.

[MrH]

Hi Halil,

The amicable and favourable climate should not be poisoned by the media or short-sighted politicians.

I completely agree, but, the Greek Cypriots always appear to get nasty when Talat gets serious about the Practicalities and Workable realities of a Federal plan. They suddenly accuse him of siding, being a puppet and etc, when they know very well that an amicable agreement can only be based on two founding states, under a workable BBF forumula and not one based on Majority and Minority - which is clearly what the GCs are looking for!

[Bananiot]

"Two founding states" will not be accepted by the Greek Cypriot side. I think Talat understands this very well and eventually he will move away from this notion (if indeed he is entertaining such thoughts) when the give and take business end of the negotiations begins in earnest in May

[Nikitas]

THings will get seriously serious when we get to the territorial proposals. Territory is the main course, till then we are dealing with sauces and appetizers.

The discussion on governance (such a high sounding word!!!) concerns the positions in the civil service which will be used as rewards for our civil service classes, rewards to be handed out as rewards by politicians. With BBF there will be not one, not two, but THREE civil services to live off the people's taxes. It might even be FOUR civil service sectors if you add the Eurocrat caste.

Territory will concern the people more than "governance" and there we will see the true mindset of the TC and Turkish side.

[halil]

I wonder if any of you noticed the proposals were giving by ex-president Clerides dated 13 May 2002.

all the talks we are talking on the table is bits of every proposals that were giving by both sides.

here it is read once again what was his ideas .(ex-president Clerides)

This non paper does not represent a proposal of the G/C side but a last effort to overcome the debate on vision and begin at last negotiation on core issues.

The GC and TC Representative at talks conducted under the good offices of the secretary general of the united nations,have reached the following preliminary conclusions,which do not constitute an agreement,because nothing is sign is agreed until everything is agreed on all issues:

a) The 1960 constitution ,based on Zurich Agreement of 1959 ,can not any longer reflect the new arrangement to be made and must be abrogated.
b) A new foundation agreement is needed on which the new constitution of Cyprus will be based.
c) A new foundation agreement must be respect new political relationship between the GC and TC and must be that of political equality,bizonality and bicomunality.
d)Regarding political equality ,which does not mean numerical equality,it must be clearly understood that the GC numerical majority and the TC numerical minority will have equal political rights and will both effectively participate in the executive,legislative and judicial organs of the the states of Cyprus so that the GC numerical majority will not be able to impose its will on the TC numerical minority.
e) The state of Cyprus must have a single sovereignty ,single international personality and single citizenship and the settlement must exclude union in whole or in part of the other country or any form of partition or secession.
it shall contain 2 separate self administrate states i.e a GC and TC state , each having its own executive ,legislative ,judicial organs , police and civil service operating in the sphere of functions stated in the foundation agreement and in the constitution.
f)The state of Cyprus should posses all organs and powers necessary to functions as a state.
g)The state of Cyprus will not be empowered to encroach on the powers of the aforesaid self administered states.
h)Subject to a agreement on all aspect of the core issue of security, the treaty of guarantee may be extended so as to cover the territorial integrity, security and constitutional order of the aforesaid self-administered states.
i) A plan must be agreed for creation ,within a specified time, of the necessary info structure to raise the per capita income of the Turkish Cypriots.
j)The core issue to be discussed in a spirit of give and take .
k)The agreement reached ,including the accession of the state of Cyprus to the E.U should be put together in separate referenda to the GC and Tc's who, than (if the result is positive) will be co founders of the new state of affairs of the sovereign state of Cyprus.

Above writing is taken from
http://www.kktcb.eu/upload/pdf/61421.pdf

original one can be read from above link . İt was rewritten by me , it might be some spelling mistakes .Pls read original one as well.

[MrH]

Bananiot,

Hi,

In my opinion, I strongly believe that he won't shift from this position as its national policy for the Turkish Cypriots - it's a fundamental part of the rule of "Equality" under an environment based on Conflict! If he does shift from this basis, then I would say the isolation, economic and political struggle of the Turkish Cypriot since 1974 has been a waste of time! We are seeking a plan based on Equality and not domination. Thus, as long as the Greek Cypriot population outnumber ours by its present percentage, it will be futile to agree upon unrealistic unification parameters without two distinctive federated states.

This is not a new policy, but one that has been proven by almost every country that is under conflict! It's about Trust, and unification based on two founding states will at the very least protect our rights as "Partners" of the island of Cyprus as opposed to being classed as a "Protected Minority".

Britain agreed to relinquish the Cyprus under a Partnership, two majorities, and not one based on domination by especially the Greek Cypriot with whom even they had problems compromising with - Makarios had to be pushed to sign the Partnership deal.

The Greek Cypriots can try the old "Unification", love and respect moves all they want, we know the truth.

What we are asking has been implemented by almost every nation in Europe and has been accepted - Belgium, the AGREED break up of former Yugoslavia and the break up of Czechoslovakia - if they all can agree on a mutual footing, why should we remain indifferent? The Greek Cypriots need to understand they will never win domination over the Turkish Cypriot nation, we have learnt our lessons too well in the past.

Thanks.

[Kifeas]

I wonder if any of you noticed the proposals were giving by ex-president Clerides dated 13 May 2002.

all the talks we are talking on the table is bits of every proposals that were giving by both sides.

here it is read once again what was his ideas .(ex-president Clerides)

This non paper does not represent a proposal of the G/C side but a last effort to overcome the debate on vision and begin at last negotiation on core issues.

The GC and TC Representative at talks conducted under the good offices of the secretary general of the united nations,have reached the following preliminary conclusions,which do not constitute an agreement,because nothing is sign is agreed until everything is agreed on all issues:

a) The 1960 constitution ,based on Zurich Agreement of 1959 ,can not any longer reflect the new arrangement to be made and must be abrogated.
b) A new foundation agreement is needed on which the new constitution of Cyprus will be based.
c) A new foundation agreement must be respect new political relationship between the GC and TC and must be that of political equality,bizonality and bicomunality.
d)Regarding political equality ,which does not mean numerical equality,it must be clearly understood that the GC numerical majority and the TC numerical minority will have equal political rights and will both effectively participate in the executive,legislative and judicial organs of the the states of Cyprus so that the GC numerical majority will not be able to impose its will on the TC numerical minority.
e) The state of Cyprus must have a single sovereignty ,single international personality and single citizenship and the settlement must exclude union in whole or in part of the other country or any form of partition or secession.
it shall contain 2 separate self administrate states i.e a GC and TC state , each having its own executive ,legislative ,judicial organs , police and civil service operating in the sphere of functions stated in the foundation agreement and in the constitution.
f)The state of Cyprus should posses all organs and powers necessary to functions as a state.
g)The state of Cyprus will not be empowered to encroach on the powers of the aforesaid self administered states.
h)Subject to a agreement on all aspect of the core issue of security, the treaty of guarantee may be extended so as to cover the territorial integrity, security and constitutional order of the aforesaid self-administered states.
i) A plan must be agreed for creation ,within a specified time, of the necessary info structure to raise the per capita income of the Turkish Cypriots.
j)The core issue to be discussed in a spirit of give and take .
k)The agreement reached ,including the accession of the state of Cyprus to the E.U should be put together in separate referenda to the GC and Tc's who, than (if the result is positive) will be co founders of the new state of affairs of the sovereign state of Cyprus.

Above writing is taken from
http://www.kktcb.eu/upload/pdf/61421.pdf

original one can be read from above link . İt was rewritten by me , it might be some spelling mistakes .Pls read original one as well.

Halil,

1. Klerides is no longer the president, and his ideas little matter. If this was an agreement reached between the two communities, then it would have made sense referring to them. They are not!

2. We do not know for a fact if these were his ideas and more so to whom they were conveyed. Nevertheless, although there is nothing wrong with many of them, I see the possibility that some of them can be easily misinterpreted and manipulated to mean several things, including perfectly accommodating the most hard-line Turkish positions such as the abandoned and dissolution of the RoC, and the via virgin birth acceptance of two co-founding states. Under these circumstances, thanks god we were relieved from him!

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Bananiot,

Hi,

In my opinion, I strongly believe that he won't shift from this position as its national policy for the Turkish Cypriots - it's a fundamental part of the rule of "Equality" under an environment based on Conflict! If he does shift from this basis, then I would say the isolation, economic and political struggle of the Turkish Cypriot since 1974 has been a waste of time! We are seeking a plan based on Equality and not domination. Thus, as long as the Greek Cypriot population outnumber ours by its present percentage, it will be futile to agree upon unrealistic unification parameters without two distinctive federated states.

This is not a new policy, but one that has been proven by almost every country that is under conflict! It's about Trust, and unification based on two founding states will at the very least protect our rights as "Partners" of the island of Cyprus as opposed to being classed as a "Protected Minority".

Britain agreed to relinquish the Cyprus under a Partnership, two majorities, and not one based on domination by especially the Greek Cypriot with whom even they had problems compromising with - Makarios had to be pushed to sign the Partnership deal.

The Greek Cypriots can try the old "Unification", love and respect moves all they want, we know the truth.

What we are asking has been implemented by almost every nation in Europe and has been accepted - Belgium, the AGREED break up of former Yugoslavia and the break up of Czechoslovakia - if they all can agree on a mutual footing, why should we remain indifferent? The Greek Cypriots need to understand they will never win domination over the Turkish Cypriot nation, we have learnt our lessons too well in the past.

Thanks.

The situation between Belgium, Yoguslavia and Czechoslavakia are completely different to Cyprus.

Your state is based on Occupation you havent lived on the land you claim as TRNC for thousands of years so you cant use them as examples.

Who do you think you are Israel? They did exactly what you are proposing now. Forcing the rightful owners out of their homes.

You will never get you state.

You exepcts us to reliquish our family homes with nothing in return. That will never happen.