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TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

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TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby MrH » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:12 pm

Many of the Greek Cypriots on this forum appear to need re-explaination of the realities of the island of Cyprus, particularly those realities that are "Practical". Here's an undisbupted list from the Turkish Cypriot camp (that I am obviously expecting a huge lashing response to) of the island of Cyprus:

1) The TRNC exists - Full Stop!
2) The educational institutes of the TRNC are internationally recognised.
3) Unless a "Federal" agreement is agreed upon under the parameters of a (Founding) two state formula with a "Loose" central government, unification as WE all know it will never be achieved.
4) The TRNC may not be completely recognised, internationally, but it is a functioning state and democracy with many other countries that work very closely with it.
5) The TRNC has a host of internationally recongised institutes and businesses working within it; from the construction industry, tourism, medical and retail to its banking sector and its government - like HSBC and MPs of the parliament of the TRNC (particularly at a UN and EU level - think about the ministers from the TRNC the EU consistently liaise with!).
6) Your President of the Greek Cypriot ROC has openly (publically)admitted and apologised for the bloodshed inflicted on our people in 1963.
7) The year 1974 was a time of Conflict (recognised by the UN), a Greek Coup, and many Greek Cypriots fighting against the Ultra Nationalist EOKA B terrorist group. Turkey intervened in order to save the Turkish Cypriots and the GREEK Cypriot people. Remember, Greece was under military rule at that time, where the events in Cyprus had soon allowed Greece to return back to a Democratic government - forcefully!
7) Do you see a military armada threatening the TRNC from the international community? Obviously not. We have a right to establish our own state, just like Kosovo, Montenegro and other nations had a right to self-determination. LIVE WITH IT!
8) Stop trying to argue about the so-called "OCCUPATION" of Northern Cyprus, when you know CLEARLY that the only way for Turkey to agree with you is to broker an ACCEPTABLE agreement based on THE REALITIES!
9) The 18% Myth regarding the population of the Turkish Cypriots is a clear indication of your basic missunderstanding of the word "Equality" and "Partnership", which was the wish of the British government for agreeing to the establishment of the 1960 republic. What difference does the size of the population of a country mean? NOTHING! Otherwise Greece would be the size of London! Right?
10) The amount of Territory presently under the TRNC BELONGS to the TRNC, and not an inch can be returned as WE believe it is our right. Our population could be 50'000 people - so what! It still will NOT give you the right to have it reduced, not that you've succeeded since 1974 anyway!!! Wake up and understand this reality.
11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request, and do NOT occupy the TRNC! No other country in the world has brought this up besides your Hijacked Greek Cypriot Controlled ROC. It's Turkey that supports our Republic state, only, where even the most basic forms of humanitarian aide have been stopped by the GC Controlled ROC - how shameful.
12) The current engagement in UN talks by GC leader Christofias is proof that the GC controlled ROC is not as "solid" as what people may believe, and the urgency and eagerness to start UN based talks by your leader shows how scared he was that the TRNC would obviously have gained Political ground/recognition if he and rejected President Talat's call. This is undeniable as even your leader said this in so many words!
13) The so-called UN resolution 541 and 540 are ADVICE only, and NOT binding! But clearly the OIC and other nations with whom have a TRNC foriegn representative office (UK, Brussells, Italy etc) are now realising that those resolutions mean nothing, and in no way represents a realistic and up to date picture of the current state of affairs concerning the island.
14) The CIA website clearly points to a Turkish Cypriot Controlled North and a Greek Cypriot Controlled South, and in no way mentions the word "Occupation".
15) The non-Facist Greek Cypriots know that they will have to broker a reasonable TWO-STATE deal, regardless! They know the mistakes made in the past and they particularly know that we are PARTNERS on the island and not Majority over Minority!
16) The Guarantor status of Turkey will not, and can nvere be removed from the isalnd of Cyprus.
17) Finally, the GC Controlled ROC can never, and would never dare to use its so-called VETO rights in preventing Turkey from becoming a EU member state. This, as they clearly know, would legally push for the Turkish Cypriots to officially link with the Republic of Turkey as a Country state, similar to Wales and Scotland, the FALKLAND Islands of the United Kingdom!


As for myself, I believe the island should be split into the TRNC and perhap the GC-ROC (if they want), based on a reasonable territorial split with both Republic states working closely as similar to the Czech and Slovak Republic states do. Other than that, I honestly think that a Federal plan with two component states will ultimately clash. This is because Turkey is still not part of the of the European Union!

Look at it logically, how in the world Could the island of Cyprus work as a Single Soverign Federal republic state if one of its member guarantor countries is not a FULL member of European Union.
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby Paphitis » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:20 pm

MrH wrote:Many of the Greek Cypriots on this forum appear to need re-explaination of the realities of the island of Cyprus, particularly those realities that are "Practical". Here's an undisbupted list from the Turkish Cypriot camp (that I am obviously expecting a huge lashing response to) of the island of Cyprus:

1) The TRNC exists - Full Stop!
2) The educational institutes of the TRNC are internationally recognised.
3) Unless a "Federal" agreement is agreed upon under the parameters of a (Founding) two state formula with a "Loose" central government, unification as WE all know it will never be achieved.
4) The TRNC may not be completely recognised, internationally, but it is a functioning state and democracy with many other countries that work very closely with it.
5) The TRNC has a host of internationally recongised institutes and businesses working within it; from the construction industry, tourism, medical and retail to its banking sector and its government - like HSBC and MPs of the parliament of the TRNC (particularly at a UN and EU level - think about the ministers from the TRNC the EU consistently liaise with!).
6) Your President of the Greek Cypriot ROC has openly (publically)admitted and apologised for the bloodshed inflicted on our people in 1963.
7) The year 1974 was a time of Conflict (recognised by the UN), a Greek Coup, and many Greek Cypriots fighting against the Ultra Nationalist EOKA B terrorist group. Turkey intervened in order to save the Turkish Cypriots and the GREEK Cypriot people. Remember, Greece was under military rule at that time, where the events in Cyprus had soon allowed Greece to return back to a Democratic government - forcefully!
7) Do you see a military armada threatening the TRNC from the international community? Obviously not. We have a right to establish our own state, just like Kosovo, Montenegro and other nations had a right to self-determination. LIVE WITH IT!
8) Stop trying to argue about the so-called "OCCUPATION" of Northern Cyprus, when you know CLEARLY that the only way for Turkey to agree with you is to broker an ACCEPTABLE agreement based on THE REALITIES!
9) The 18% Myth regarding the population of the Turkish Cypriots is a clear indication of your basic missunderstanding of the word "Equality" and "Partnership", which was the wish of the British government for agreeing to the establishment of the 1960 republic. What difference does the size of the population of a country mean? NOTHING! Otherwise Greece would be the size of London! Right?
10) The amount of Territory presently under the TRNC BELONGS to the TRNC, and not an inch can be returned as WE believe it is our right. Our population could be 50'000 people - so what! It still will NOT give you the right to have it reduced, not that you've succeeded since 1974 anyway!!! Wake up and understand this reality.
11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request, and do NOT occupy the TRNC! No other country in the world has brought this up besides your Hijacked Greek Cypriot Controlled ROC. It's Turkey that supports our Republic state, only, where even the most basic forms of humanitarian aide have been stopped by the GC Controlled ROC - how shameful.
12) The current engagement in UN talks by GC leader Christofias is proof that the GC controlled ROC is not as "solid" as what people may believe, and the urgency and eagerness to start UN based talks by your leader shows how scared he was that the TRNC would obviously have gained Political ground/recognition if he and rejected President Talat's call. This is undeniable as even your leader said this in so many words!
13) The so-called UN resolution 541 and 540 are ADVICE only, and NOT binding! But clearly the OIC and other nations with whom have a TRNC foriegn representative office (UK, Brussells, Italy etc) are now realising that those resolutions mean nothing, and in no way represents a realistic and up to date picture of the current state of affairs concerning the island.
14) The CIA website clearly points to a Turkish Cypriot Controlled North and a Greek Cypriot Controlled South, and in no way mentions the word "Occupation".
15) The non-Facist Greek Cypriots know that they will have to broker a reasonable TWO-STATE deal, regardless! They know the mistakes made in the past and they particularly know that we are PARTNERS on the island and not Majority over Minority!
16) The Guarantor status of Turkey will not, and can nvere be removed from the isalnd of Cyprus.
17) Finally, the GC Controlled ROC can never, and would never dare to use its so-called VETO rights in preventing Turkey from becoming a EU member state. This, as they clearly know, would legally push for the Turkish Cypriots to officially link with the Republic of Turkey as a Country state, similar to Wales and Scotland, the FALKLAND Islands of the United Kingdom!


As for myself, I believe the island should be split into the TRNC and perhap the GC-ROC (if they want), based on a reasonable territorial split with both Republic states working closely as similar to the Czech and Slovak Republic states do. Other than that, I honestly think that a Federal plan with two component states will ultimately clash. This is because Turkey is still not part of the of the European Union!

Look at it logically, how in the world Could the island of Cyprus work as a Single Soverign Federal republic state if one of its member guarantor countries is not a FULL member of European Union.


Welcome back Andros! :lol:
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Postby CBBB » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:20 pm

What a load of bollocks! When are you going to come out of your dream state?
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Postby DT. » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:24 pm

I'll take down each one of your points soon as I get some time. In the meantime go see if you can find HSBC Ltd registered in the "trnc".

I'll help you out.. http://www.hsbc.com.tr/eng/branches_atm ... anches.asp Kyrenia and Lefkosia are branches of the Turkish HSBC.
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby iceman » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:35 pm

MrH wrote:11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request,



This one is my favorite...:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby karma » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:37 pm

iceman wrote:
MrH wrote:11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request,



This one is my favorite...:lol: :lol: :lol:


:shock:
MrH will be arrested soon for Ergenekon case for wht he said right now..
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby DT. » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:39 pm

iceman wrote:
MrH wrote:11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request,



This one is my favorite...:lol: :lol: :lol:


shame he didn't go into the fact that you were so pleased with the settlers you got in the 70's and 80's that you are out on the streets demonstrating for more of these fine fellows to be shipped over. :lol:
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby denizaksulu » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:15 pm

MrH wrote:Many of the Greek Cypriots on this forum appear to need re-explaination of the realities of the island of Cyprus, particularly those realities that are "Practical". Here's an undisbupted list from the Turkish Cypriot camp (that I am obviously expecting a huge lashing response to) of the island of Cyprus:

1) The TRNC exists - Full Stop!
2) The educational institutes of the TRNC are internationally recognised.
3) Unless a "Federal" agreement is agreed upon under the parameters of a (Founding) two state formula with a "Loose" central government, unification as WE all know it will never be achieved.
4) The TRNC may not be completely recognised, internationally, but it is a functioning state and democracy with many other countries that work very closely with it.
5) The TRNC has a host of internationally recongised institutes and businesses working within it; from the construction industry, tourism, medical and retail to its banking sector and its government - like HSBC and MPs of the parliament of the TRNC (particularly at a UN and EU level - think about the ministers from the TRNC the EU consistently liaise with!).
6) Your President of the Greek Cypriot ROC has openly (publically)admitted and apologised for the bloodshed inflicted on our people in 1963.
7) The year 1974 was a time of Conflict (recognised by the UN), a Greek Coup, and many Greek Cypriots fighting against the Ultra Nationalist EOKA B terrorist group. Turkey intervened in order to save the Turkish Cypriots and the GREEK Cypriot people. Remember, Greece was under military rule at that time, where the events in Cyprus had soon allowed Greece to return back to a Democratic government - forcefully!
7) Do you see a military armada threatening the TRNC from the international community? Obviously not. We have a right to establish our own state, just like Kosovo, Montenegro and other nations had a right to self-determination. LIVE WITH IT!
8) Stop trying to argue about the so-called "OCCUPATION" of Northern Cyprus, when you know CLEARLY that the only way for Turkey to agree with you is to broker an ACCEPTABLE agreement based on THE REALITIES!
9) The 18% Myth regarding the population of the Turkish Cypriots is a clear indication of your basic missunderstanding of the word "Equality" and "Partnership", which was the wish of the British government for agreeing to the establishment of the 1960 republic. What difference does the size of the population of a country mean? NOTHING! Otherwise Greece would be the size of London! Right?
10) The amount of Territory presently under the TRNC BELONGS to the TRNC, and not an inch can be returned as WE believe it is our right. Our population could be 50'000 people - so what! It still will NOT give you the right to have it reduced, not that you've succeeded since 1974 anyway!!! Wake up and understand this reality.
11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request, and do NOT occupy the TRNC! No other country in the world has brought this up besides your Hijacked Greek Cypriot Controlled ROC. It's Turkey that supports our Republic state, only, where even the most basic forms of humanitarian aide have been stopped by the GC Controlled ROC - how shameful.
12) The current engagement in UN talks by GC leader Christofias is proof that the GC controlled ROC is not as "solid" as what people may believe, and the urgency and eagerness to start UN based talks by your leader shows how scared he was that the TRNC would obviously have gained Political ground/recognition if he and rejected President Talat's call. This is undeniable as even your leader said this in so many words!
13) The so-called UN resolution 541 and 540 are ADVICE only, and NOT binding! But clearly the OIC and other nations with whom have a TRNC foriegn representative office (UK, Brussells, Italy etc) are now realising that those resolutions mean nothing, and in no way represents a realistic and up to date picture of the current state of affairs concerning the island.
14) The CIA website clearly points to a Turkish Cypriot Controlled North and a Greek Cypriot Controlled South, and in no way mentions the word "Occupation".
15) The non-Facist Greek Cypriots know that they will have to broker a reasonable TWO-STATE deal, regardless! They know the mistakes made in the past and they particularly know that we are PARTNERS on the island and not Majority over Minority!
16) The Guarantor status of Turkey will not, and can nvere be removed from the isalnd of Cyprus.
17) Finally, the GC Controlled ROC can never, and would never dare to use its so-called VETO rights in preventing Turkey from becoming a EU member state. This, as they clearly know, would legally push for the Turkish Cypriots to officially link with the Republic of Turkey as a Country state, similar to Wales and Scotland, the FALKLAND Islands of the United Kingdom!


As for myself, I believe the island should be split into the TRNC and perhap the GC-ROC (if they want), based on a reasonable territorial split with both Republic states working closely as similar to the Czech and Slovak Republic states do. Other than that, I honestly think that a Federal plan with two component states will ultimately clash. This is because Turkey is still not part of the of the European Union!

Look at it logically, how in the world Could the island of Cyprus work as a Single Soverign Federal republic state if one of its member guarantor countries is not a FULL member of European Union.



Would you also like to see Turkey split up into two states of Kurdistan and Turkey? I for one prefer Cyprus to remain as a whole.
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Re: TC Realities for the Greek Cypriot World

Postby Kifeas » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:28 pm

iceman wrote:
MrH wrote:11) The Turkish troops currently under the command of the "Turkish Cypriot Forces" are their under our requirements and request,



This one is my favorite...:lol: :lol: :lol:


An even funniest thing is that as many as 90% of the TCs -plus at least one GC (Bananiot,) do seem to believe and subscribe to every single one of all the above myths! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby MrH » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:33 pm

DT

I'll take down each one of your points soon as I get some time. In the meantime go see if you can find HSBC Ltd registered in the "trnc".


And, what does that tell you then? Perhaps the TRNC is solely supported by Turkey - do we have a choice in the face of all the international Isolation! The GCs have never stretched their arm and offered us some kind of independence or support - what do you expect?


denizaksulu,

Would you also like to see Turkey split up into two states of Kurdistan and Turkey? I for one prefer Cyprus to remain as a whole.


I am happy that we can engage in meaningful dialogue. As for your comments above, Turkey and Cyprus are completely two seperate political issues. Cyprus was partitioned by Greek Cypriot hands, and not by us. We didn't start the Bloodshed, and we certainly haven't ended it. It is the Greek Cypriot people who had said no to the Annan Plan, and they will always say no to such a Federal plan based on two states! What they obviously want is complete domination and control - Never!!!

All Turkish Cypriots must understand this.

If you think, denizaksulu, that the Greek Cypriots will ever sign a POWERSHARING deal with us under a federal umbrella, you seriously need to take a lesson from President Talat who also had to learn the hard way. He too once believed this, but now realises who and what the Greek Cypriots are - Ultra-Nationalists wanting domination. They do not, and will never accept us as equals.

Like with Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, we too can only be represented freely via our right to self determination.

A Federal Deal is just not possible with the Greek Cypriots at this time - they will need another 50 years to understand and appreciate how giving and respectful we are. We, as Turkish Cypriots, do not blow people up, do not commit crimes for independence. We didn't even close our doors after their resounding NO! We simply agreed and respected their decision and are now seeking a second chance via the UN with Talat and Christofias. Are we too SOFT! Perhaps? Perhaps we should toughen up and shut them out, just like the former Yugoslavian states did to each other.

Perhaps it really is time to push for our independence. Perhaps we should shelve this unification idea and go our separate ways?

Until now, Turkey has clearly compromised at a UN level with our TRNC. I believe Turkey should now work at helping us to gain complete international recognition. If they can achieve the recognition of the "Turkish Cypriot State" via the OIC, perhaps the rest is just formality. As a Turkish Cypriot, we need a united front.

I am open for compromise Denizaksulu.
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