Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

My friend If you tell to an Australian or to an American he is British he willl throw you into the ocean straight away and this is my point here. While you are an Australian in Australia you are a Greek in Cyprus? Some people need to pay tax just for positing in the internet as the only thing they do is to downgrade the island into a puppet state and semi dependent state.

Why do they have the British flag in their own flag then?

And the main point here is that the Australians chose to have an independent country because that would serve their own interests better.

Cyprus and Greece were forced to be separate so we would be weaker and the UK/Turkey would serve their interests on our loss.

Would you make the same argument to an East or West German before the unification of Germany? Would you say to them: "It doesn't matter that some others forced you to be separate, now you have a separate state and you should therefore always be separate"?

We discussed this before Piratis. The option of Indepenedence was not put in front of the people to decide. The Options that people were forced to choose were only 2 Enosis and british rule so they were forced to accept the less evil of the 2 as proper independence was missing as an option. Dont you agree that they option of Indepenedence should had been as a legal option for people to choose in a proper refernedum and not be forced by a group (EOKA) for Enosis. And why do you thing some GCs were killed who t were opposed to ENOSIS ALONG with MANY others who were forced to remain SILENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of people supported Enosis with Greece. But of course there will be always the "royalists" and "loyalists" in every revolution. Until Makarios proposed independence nobody else did. So those that opposed Enosis where not those that wanted independence, but those who supported the Turkish and British interests on the island.

A referendum is something we asked for and it was denied to us. Long before we started our revolution we had been asking to have a democratic referendum so the people could decide peacefully what they want for their own island. But the British didn't allow any referendum to take place because they decided that they should be the ones taking the decisions for Cyprus, and that the Cypriot people themselves have no right to decide the destiny of their own island.

So why have we been denied the referendum Michalis?

[Piratis]

My friend If you tell to an Australian or to an American he is British he willl throw you into the ocean straight away and this is my point here. While you are an Australian in Australia you are a Greek in Cyprus? Some people need to pay tax just for positing in the internet as the only thing they do is to downgrade the island into a puppet state and semi dependent state.

Why do they have the British flag in their own flag then?

And the main point here is that the Australians chose to have an independent country because that would serve their own interests better.

Cyprus and Greece were forced to be separate so we would be weaker and the UK/Turkey would serve their interests on our loss.

Would you make the same argument to an East or West German before the unification of Germany? Would you say to them: "It doesn't matter that some others forced you to be separate, now you have a separate state and you should therefore always be separate"?

Yes, but you are not advocating now that we need to unite with Greece are you Piratis? Or even that we need to have another "plebiscite" on the matter, right?

No Oracle. I am not advocating this because I do not want Enosis.
What I support is not Enosis, but the right of the Cypriot people for their self-determination and their right to decide in a democratic way the destiny of their island.

But yes, I would support a referendum. Why not? In a referendum regarding enosis today, I would vote "no" and I am sure the vast majority of Cypriot people would vote "no" as well. But just because I would vote in that way it doesn't mean I have the right to prohibit from others expressing their will in a democratic and peaceful way.

[Oracle]

My friend If you tell to an Australian or to an American he is British he willl throw you into the ocean straight away and this is my point here. While you are an Australian in Australia you are a Greek in Cyprus? Some people need to pay tax just for positing in the internet as the only thing they do is to downgrade the island into a puppet state and semi dependent state.

Why do they have the British flag in their own flag then?

And the main point here is that the Australians chose to have an independent country because that would serve their own interests better.

Cyprus and Greece were forced to be separate so we would be weaker and the UK/Turkey would serve their interests on our loss.

Would you make the same argument to an East or West German before the unification of Germany? Would you say to them: "It doesn't matter that some others forced you to be separate, now you have a separate state and you should therefore always be separate"?

Yes, but you are not advocating now that we need to unite with Greece are you Piratis? Or even that we need to have another "plebiscite" on the matter, right?

No Oracle. I am not advocating this because I do not want Enosis.
What I support is not Enosis, but the right of the Cypriot people for their self-determination and their right to decide in a democratic way the destiny of their island.

But yes, I would support a referendum. Why not? In a referendum regarding enosis today, I would vote "no" and I am sure the vast majority of Cypriot people would vote "no" as well. But just because I would vote in that way it doesn't mean I have the right to prohibit from others expressing their will in a democratic and peaceful way.

Exactly as I thought Piratis, thank you. I was just worried your comparison to German re-unification, could be taken the wrong way.

[Get Real!]

GR! you are seriously overdoing the 'super-Cypriot' routine and are in danger of becoming the new Miltiades. We all know you're a Cypriot and you love Cyprus so please stop waving your e-penis in everyone's faces and stop talking about a handful of cavemen like they were the greatest civilisation on Earth.

Fair enough you don't want to be 'Greek' or have anything to do with Greece but trying to convince yourself that you come from some forgotten ancient civilisation is beyond delusional. There is more chance that you're a Tourkosporo than a pure-blood ethnic Choirokitian so just accept it and move on.

The Choirokitians lived RIGHT HERE on this island whereas the Mycenaeans were 600 miles away in ANOTHER COUNTRY so the chances that any given Cypriot is of Mycenaean descend and not Choirokitian is equivalent to that of you winning Lotto. Only a Greek-brainwashed fool of mythological proportions could and would convince himself otherwise.

Dude let's be honest now. The Choirokitians weren't really up to much as far as ancient 'civilisations' go. It's not like they managed to spread their community over all of Cyprus or venture away from the island. They died out. You can't seriously think their bloodline (from 300 people who were probably from the Middle East anyway) survived down all the centuries of foreign rule (especially without getting diluted beyond recognition) to the present day.

The way I see it, the Greek Cypriots' ancestors turned up with those first explorers/traders/whatever from Greece in 1600BC and during the 'second wave' in 1100BC. We're not 'indiginous' in the sense that we evolved on Cyprus.

Obviously the Maronites came from Lebanon and the Turkish Puppets are the remnants/spawn of those that came over from the Turkish mainland during/since the Ottoman days.

Give it a rest now eh?

A rest? We're only just beginning baby so fasten your seatbelt ...

Now here’s a good site; the Cycladic Greek museum. Check out the prehistory of Cyprus…

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64


Not a mention of Mycenaeans until…

Cypro-Geometric period (1050-750 BC)

The turmoil in the Eastern Mediterranean during the late 13th and early 12th c. BC affected Cyprus, too. The large urban centres that had flourished in the Late Bronze Age were abandoned and the population decreased. At the same time, Mycenaean refugees arrived from the Aegean, bringing with them the Greek language. New settlements were established and gradually a new form or political organization, based on ten independent kingdoms, made its appearance. The stategic location and the availability of raw materials (metals and timber) helped Cyprus regain its role as a node of Mediterranean trade, forging anew relations with the Syro-Palestinian littoral, Egypt, and Crete. The founding of a Phoenician colony at Kition in the 9th c. BC gave fresh impetus to commercial activities. New cultural elements were introduced to the island too, such as the Phoenician language and the cult of Astarte (which was later assimilated into the worship of Aphrodite). The art of the period has a distinctly local idiom, despite the influences from the Orient and the Aegean. As early as the 11th c. BC, a new syllabic system of writing (Cypriot syllabary) was developed, which was to be used continuously until the 3rd c. BC for writing the ancient Cypriot and Greek language.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=65

So you claim to be a descendant of these refugees eh? Did you verify that with the Red Cross?

[michalis5354]

My friend If you tell to an Australian or to an American he is British he willl throw you into the ocean straight away and this is my point here. While you are an Australian in Australia you are a Greek in Cyprus? Some people need to pay tax just for positing in the internet as the only thing they do is to downgrade the island into a puppet state and semi dependent state.

Why do they have the British flag in their own flag then?

And the main point here is that the Australians chose to have an independent country because that would serve their own interests better.

Cyprus and Greece were forced to be separate so we would be weaker and the UK/Turkey would serve their interests on our loss.

Would you make the same argument to an East or West German before the unification of Germany? Would you say to them: "It doesn't matter that some others forced you to be separate, now you have a separate state and you should therefore always be separate"?

We discussed this before Piratis. The option of Indepenedence was not put in front of the people to decide. The Options that people were forced to choose were only 2 Enosis and british rule so they were forced to accept the less evil of the 2 as proper independence was missing as an option. Dont you agree that they option of Indepenedence should had been as a legal option for people to choose in a proper refernedum and not be forced by a group (EOKA) for Enosis. And why do you thing some GCs were killed who t were opposed to ENOSIS ALONG with MANY others who were forced to remain SILENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of people supported Enosis with Greece. But of course there will be always the "royalists" and "loyalists" in every revolution. Until Makarios proposed independence nobody else did. So those that opposed Enosis where not those that wanted independence, but those who supported the Turkish and British interests on the island.

A referendum is something we asked for and it was denied to us. Long before we started our revolution we had been asking to have a democratic referendum so the people could decide peacefully what they want for their own island. But the British didn't allow any referendum to take place because they decided that they should be the ones taking the decisions for Cyprus, and that the Cypriot people themselves have no right to decide the destiny of their own island.

So why have we been denied the referendum Michalis?

Lets compare the number of people seeking ENOSIS pre and post 1960 . Maybe ENOSIS was high on the agenda pre 1960 but it declined after 1960 .So the people voice was different pre and post 1960. If two referendum were carried out pre and post 1960 they would had revealed two different outcomes.

[Paphitis]

GR! you are seriously overdoing the 'super-Cypriot' routine and are in danger of becoming the new Miltiades. We all know you're a Cypriot and you love Cyprus so please stop waving your e-penis in everyone's faces and stop talking about a handful of cavemen like they were the greatest civilisation on Earth.

Fair enough you don't want to be 'Greek' or have anything to do with Greece but trying to convince yourself that you come from some forgotten ancient civilisation is beyond delusional. There is more chance that you're a Tourkosporo than a pure-blood ethnic Choirokitian so just accept it and move on.

The Choirokitians lived RIGHT HERE on this island whereas the Mycenaeans were 600 miles away in ANOTHER COUNTRY so the chances that any given Cypriot is of Mycenaean descend and not Choirokitian is equivalent to that of you winning Lotto. Only a Greek-brainwashed fool of mythological proportions could and would convince himself otherwise.

Dude let's be honest now. The Choirokitians weren't really up to much as far as ancient 'civilisations' go. It's not like they managed to spread their community over all of Cyprus or venture away from the island. They died out. You can't seriously think their bloodline (from 300 people who were probably from the Middle East anyway) survived down all the centuries of foreign rule (especially without getting diluted beyond recognition) to the present day.

The way I see it, the Greek Cypriots' ancestors turned up with those first explorers/traders/whatever from Greece in 1600BC and during the 'second wave' in 1100BC. We're not 'indiginous' in the sense that we evolved on Cyprus.

Obviously the Maronites came from Lebanon and the Turkish Puppets are the remnants/spawn of those that came over from the Turkish mainland during/since the Ottoman days.

Give it a rest now eh?

A rest? We're only just beginning baby so fasten your seatbelt ...

Now here’s a good site; the Cycladic Greek museum. Check out the prehistory of Cyprus…

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64


Not a mention of Mycenaeans until…

Cypro-Geometric period (1050-750 BC)

The turmoil in the Eastern Mediterranean during the late 13th and early 12th c. BC affected Cyprus, too. The large urban centres that had flourished in the Late Bronze Age were abandoned and the population decreased. At the same time, Mycenaean refugees arrived from the Aegean, bringing with them the Greek language. New settlements were established and gradually a new form or political organization, based on ten independent kingdoms, made its appearance. The stategic location and the availability of raw materials (metals and timber) helped Cyprus regain its role as a node of Mediterranean trade, forging anew relations with the Syro-Palestinian littoral, Egypt, and Crete. The founding of a Phoenician colony at Kition in the 9th c. BC gave fresh impetus to commercial activities. New cultural elements were introduced to the island too, such as the Phoenician language and the cult of Astarte (which was later assimilated into the worship of Aphrodite). The art of the period has a distinctly local idiom, despite the influences from the Orient and the Aegean. As early as the 11th c. BC, a new syllabic system of writing (Cypriot syllabary) was developed, which was to be used continuously until the 3rd c. BC for writing the ancient Cypriot and Greek language.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=65

So you claim to be a descendant of these refugees eh? Did you verify that with the Red Cross?

Thanks GR! for proving my point.

From your source:

Late Bronze Age (1650-1050 BC)

During the Late Bronze Age, Cyprus came into its own as a major centre of copper production, supplying the entire Eastern Mediterranean. Settlements with urban organization grew up close to the harbours from which copper ingots and bronze artifacts were shipped to the Aegean, the Middle East, and Egypt, to be bartered or exchanged for various products and luxury goods. In the larger cities, buildings for administrative functions were erected, while a system of writing was adopted from Crete (Cypro-Minoan script), which enabled the Cypriots to cope with the increased bureaucratic need for inventories and archives. The arts flourished and the wealth that flowed into the island led to social inequalities. In the late 13th c. BC, the upheavals sweeping the Eastern Mediterranean, which are usually attributed to the so-called “Sea Peoples”, also affected Cyprus. Several cities were destroyed and waves of refugees arrived from the Aegean. Even so, the island quickly recovered from the dramatic disturbances and regained its role as an important mercantile centre.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64

So Cypriots are not ony the descendants of Mycenaens but are also the descendants of the Minoans.

[Piratis]

My friend If you tell to an Australian or to an American he is British he willl throw you into the ocean straight away and this is my point here. While you are an Australian in Australia you are a Greek in Cyprus? Some people need to pay tax just for positing in the internet as the only thing they do is to downgrade the island into a puppet state and semi dependent state.

Why do they have the British flag in their own flag then?

And the main point here is that the Australians chose to have an independent country because that would serve their own interests better.

Cyprus and Greece were forced to be separate so we would be weaker and the UK/Turkey would serve their interests on our loss.

Would you make the same argument to an East or West German before the unification of Germany? Would you say to them: "It doesn't matter that some others forced you to be separate, now you have a separate state and you should therefore always be separate"?

We discussed this before Piratis. The option of Indepenedence was not put in front of the people to decide. The Options that people were forced to choose were only 2 Enosis and british rule so they were forced to accept the less evil of the 2 as proper independence was missing as an option. Dont you agree that they option of Indepenedence should had been as a legal option for people to choose in a proper refernedum and not be forced by a group (EOKA) for Enosis. And why do you thing some GCs were killed who t were opposed to ENOSIS ALONG with MANY others who were forced to remain SILENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of people supported Enosis with Greece. But of course there will be always the "royalists" and "loyalists" in every revolution. Until Makarios proposed independence nobody else did. So those that opposed Enosis where not those that wanted independence, but those who supported the Turkish and British interests on the island.

A referendum is something we asked for and it was denied to us. Long before we started our revolution we had been asking to have a democratic referendum so the people could decide peacefully what they want for their own island. But the British didn't allow any referendum to take place because they decided that they should be the ones taking the decisions for Cyprus, and that the Cypriot people themselves have no right to decide the destiny of their own island.

So why have we been denied the referendum Michalis?

Lets compare the number of people seeking ENOSIS pre and post 1960 . Maybe ENOSIS was high on the agenda pre 1960 but it declined after 1960 .So the people voice was different pre and post 1960. If two referendum were carried out pre and post 1960 they would had revealed two different outcomes.

It depends on how much after 1960 you are talking about. People knew very well that what was given to us in 1960 was not a complete freedom and independence, we were not even allowed to write our own constitution, and they were definitely not satisfied with this.

So if a referendum took place in 1960 or or 1962, the result would again be in favor of enosis. If the referendum took place in 1968, when Greece was ruled by military dictators, then obviously most people would vote against enosis. If a referendum is made today, when in many respects we are in better economic condition than Greece, and when we are already united with Greece thought EU, then again people will reject Enosis.

[Get Real!]

Thanks GR! for proving my point.

From your source:

Late Bronze Age (1650-1050 BC)

During the Late Bronze Age, Cyprus came into its own as a major centre of copper production, supplying the entire Eastern Mediterranean. Settlements with urban organization grew up close to the harbours from which copper ingots and bronze artifacts were shipped to the Aegean, the Middle East, and Egypt, to be bartered or exchanged for various products and luxury goods. In the larger cities, buildings for administrative functions were erected, while a system of writing was adopted from Crete (Cypro-Minoan script), which enabled the Cypriots to cope with the increased bureaucratic need for inventories and archives. The arts flourished and the wealth that flowed into the island led to social inequalities. In the late 13th c. BC, the upheavals sweeping the Eastern Mediterranean, which are usually attributed to the so-called “Sea Peoples”, also affected Cyprus. Several cities were destroyed and waves of refugees arrived from the Aegean. Even so, the island quickly recovered from the dramatic disturbances and regained its role as an important mercantile centre.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64

So Cypriots are not ony the descendants of Mycenaens but are also the descendants of the Minoans.

How many times must we repeat the Alphabet story?

Phoenician > Minoan > Cypriot > Greek

I posted a link in the past.

And btw, Minoans had nothing to do with the origins of Greeks or modern Cretans let alone Cypriots.

[Paphitis]

Thanks GR! for proving my point.

From your source:

Late Bronze Age (1650-1050 BC)

During the Late Bronze Age, Cyprus came into its own as a major centre of copper production, supplying the entire Eastern Mediterranean. Settlements with urban organization grew up close to the harbours from which copper ingots and bronze artifacts were shipped to the Aegean, the Middle East, and Egypt, to be bartered or exchanged for various products and luxury goods. In the larger cities, buildings for administrative functions were erected, while a system of writing was adopted from Crete (Cypro-Minoan script), which enabled the Cypriots to cope with the increased bureaucratic need for inventories and archives. The arts flourished and the wealth that flowed into the island led to social inequalities. In the late 13th c. BC, the upheavals sweeping the Eastern Mediterranean, which are usually attributed to the so-called “Sea Peoples”, also affected Cyprus. Several cities were destroyed and waves of refugees arrived from the Aegean. Even so, the island quickly recovered from the dramatic disturbances and regained its role as an important mercantile centre.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64

So Cypriots are not ony the descendants of Mycenaens but are also the descendants of the Minoans.

How many times must we repeat the Alphabet story?

Phoenician > Minoan > Cypriot > Greek

I posted a link in the past.

And btw, Minoans had nothing to do with the origins of Greeks or modern Cretans let alone Cypriots.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

The Minoans settled in Crete and yet you are saying they are not linked to Modern Day Cretans. Thats fine, but then you say that Choirokitians are linked to Modern Day Cypriots and yet they numbered only 300. You can not have it both ways.

If the Minoans lived in Crete then surely some modern day Cretans derive part of their heritage from this ancient civilisation. And since these people also settled in Cyprus, then Cypriots can also do the same. Or are we only allowed to accept Choirokitian links alone?

[Get Real!]

Thanks GR! for proving my point.

From your source:

Late Bronze Age (1650-1050 BC)

During the Late Bronze Age, Cyprus came into its own as a major centre of copper production, supplying the entire Eastern Mediterranean. Settlements with urban organization grew up close to the harbours from which copper ingots and bronze artifacts were shipped to the Aegean, the Middle East, and Egypt, to be bartered or exchanged for various products and luxury goods. In the larger cities, buildings for administrative functions were erected, while a system of writing was adopted from Crete (Cypro-Minoan script), which enabled the Cypriots to cope with the increased bureaucratic need for inventories and archives. The arts flourished and the wealth that flowed into the island led to social inequalities. In the late 13th c. BC, the upheavals sweeping the Eastern Mediterranean, which are usually attributed to the so-called “Sea Peoples”, also affected Cyprus. Several cities were destroyed and waves of refugees arrived from the Aegean. Even so, the island quickly recovered from the dramatic disturbances and regained its role as an important mercantile centre.

http://www.cycladic.gr/frontoffice/port ... E&cnode=64

So Cypriots are not ony the descendants of Mycenaens but are also the descendants of the Minoans.

How many times must we repeat the Alphabet story?

Phoenician > Minoan > Cypriot > Greek

I posted a link in the past.

And btw, Minoans had nothing to do with the origins of Greeks or modern Cretans let alone Cypriots.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

The Minoans settled in Crete and yet you are saying they are not linked to Modern Day Cretans. Thats fine, but then you say that Choirokitians are linked to Modern Day Cypriots and yet they numbered only 300. You can not have it both ways.

If the Minoans lived in Crete then surely some modern day Cretans derive part of their heritage from this ancient civilisation. And since these people also settled in Cyprus, then Cypriots can also do the same. Or are we only allowed to accept Choirokitian links alone?

If you haven't read about the Minoans why are you here wanting to debate about them?