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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:56 am

Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
The Mycenaean Greeks first reached Cyprus around 1600 BC, with settlements dating from this period scattered all over the island. Another wave of Greek settlement is believed to have taken place in the period 1100-1050 BC, with the island's predominantly Greek character dating from this period


Paphiti, what you posted is the OLD theory which is now being slowly laid to rest including the alleged year of the Mycenaean “arrival” now moved to 1200-1300BC instead of 1600BC.

In the past, archeologists and historians would find 100 Persian style pots, as an example, in Scotland say and automatically assume that Persians “must have” overrun and dominated the Scots! Such was the stupidity of assumptions with which “history” was written. The “Mycenaean arrival” theory is also based on gadgets found on the island but it never occurred to anyone that they may have been purchased from them or even copied here.

Using the old erroneous frame of mind, the archaeologist of 5,000AD could be forgiven for thinking that the whole world was conquered by the Japanese in the 20th century after finding traces of Japanese car parts all over the world! :lol:

I'm loving the theory that the cleverest and most advanced cultures were not expansionist at all, they never really invaded and settled anywhere new, but sneaked into strategic locations at the dead of night and left a few hidden souvenirs so that a few thousand years later archaeologists and historians would confer 'empire' status upon them. :lol:

And thanks for explaining my feelings of kinship with the Iranians. :?

I'm thinking of burying my jocks in my back yard in the hope that future generations will find them and write all sorts of articles about how I traveled 10,000 miles and restored order in my peasant neighborhood.

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Postby Talisker » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:07 am

Get Real! wrote:
Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
The Mycenaean Greeks first reached Cyprus around 1600 BC, with settlements dating from this period scattered all over the island. Another wave of Greek settlement is believed to have taken place in the period 1100-1050 BC, with the island's predominantly Greek character dating from this period


Paphiti, what you posted is the OLD theory which is now being slowly laid to rest including the alleged year of the Mycenaean “arrival” now moved to 1200-1300BC instead of 1600BC.

In the past, archeologists and historians would find 100 Persian style pots, as an example, in Scotland say and automatically assume that Persians “must have” overrun and dominated the Scots! Such was the stupidity of assumptions with which “history” was written. The “Mycenaean arrival” theory is also based on gadgets found on the island but it never occurred to anyone that they may have been purchased from them or even copied here.

Using the old erroneous frame of mind, the archaeologist of 5,000AD could be forgiven for thinking that the whole world was conquered by the Japanese in the 20th century after finding traces of Japanese car parts all over the world! :lol:

I'm loving the theory that the cleverest and most advanced cultures were not expansionist at all, they never really invaded and settled anywhere new, but sneaked into strategic locations at the dead of night and left a few hidden souvenirs so that a few thousand years later archaeologists and historians would confer 'empire' status upon them. :lol:

And thanks for explaining my feelings of kinship with the Iranians. :?

I'm thinking of burying my jocks in my back yard in the hope that future generations will find them and write all sorts of articles about how I traveled 10,000 miles and restored order in my peasant neighborhood.

Image

Scots get nervous when folks talk about burying 'jocks'. I'm hoping you're referring to your 'keks'. :lol:
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:11 am

Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
The Mycenaean Greeks first reached Cyprus around 1600 BC, with settlements dating from this period scattered all over the island. Another wave of Greek settlement is believed to have taken place in the period 1100-1050 BC, with the island's predominantly Greek character dating from this period


Paphiti, what you posted is the OLD theory which is now being slowly laid to rest including the alleged year of the Mycenaean “arrival” now moved to 1200-1300BC instead of 1600BC.

In the past, archeologists and historians would find 100 Persian style pots, as an example, in Scotland say and automatically assume that Persians “must have” overrun and dominated the Scots! Such was the stupidity of assumptions with which “history” was written. The “Mycenaean arrival” theory is also based on gadgets found on the island but it never occurred to anyone that they may have been purchased from them or even copied here.

Using the old erroneous frame of mind, the archaeologist of 5,000AD could be forgiven for thinking that the whole world was conquered by the Japanese in the 20th century after finding traces of Japanese car parts all over the world! :lol:

I'm loving the theory that the cleverest and most advanced cultures were not expansionist at all, they never really invaded and settled anywhere new, but sneaked into strategic locations at the dead of night and left a few hidden souvenirs so that a few thousand years later archaeologists and historians would confer 'empire' status upon them. :lol:

And thanks for explaining my feelings of kinship with the Iranians. :?

I'm thinking of burying my jocks in my back yard in the hope that future generations will find them and write all sorts of articles about how I traveled 10,000 miles and restored order in my peasant neighborhood.

Image

Scots get nervous when folks talk about burying 'jocks'. I'm hoping you're referring to your 'keks'. :lol:

I always thought a kek was a quantifying container like... "Can I have a kek of halloumia please?" :?
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Postby Talisker » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:18 am

Get Real! wrote:
Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
The Mycenaean Greeks first reached Cyprus around 1600 BC, with settlements dating from this period scattered all over the island. Another wave of Greek settlement is believed to have taken place in the period 1100-1050 BC, with the island's predominantly Greek character dating from this period


Paphiti, what you posted is the OLD theory which is now being slowly laid to rest including the alleged year of the Mycenaean “arrival” now moved to 1200-1300BC instead of 1600BC.

In the past, archeologists and historians would find 100 Persian style pots, as an example, in Scotland say and automatically assume that Persians “must have” overrun and dominated the Scots! Such was the stupidity of assumptions with which “history” was written. The “Mycenaean arrival” theory is also based on gadgets found on the island but it never occurred to anyone that they may have been purchased from them or even copied here.

Using the old erroneous frame of mind, the archaeologist of 5,000AD could be forgiven for thinking that the whole world was conquered by the Japanese in the 20th century after finding traces of Japanese car parts all over the world! :lol:

I'm loving the theory that the cleverest and most advanced cultures were not expansionist at all, they never really invaded and settled anywhere new, but sneaked into strategic locations at the dead of night and left a few hidden souvenirs so that a few thousand years later archaeologists and historians would confer 'empire' status upon them. :lol:

And thanks for explaining my feelings of kinship with the Iranians. :?

I'm thinking of burying my jocks in my back yard in the hope that future generations will find them and write all sorts of articles about how I traveled 10,000 miles and restored order in my peasant neighborhood.

Image

Scots get nervous when folks talk about burying 'jocks'. I'm hoping you're referring to your 'keks'. :lol:

I always thought a kek was a quantifying container like... "Can I have a kek of halloumia please?" :?

British slang term for underpants. As in 'I had to peel my keks off as I'd had them on for so long'. I wouldn't use the term in polite company! :lol:
Although Germans apparently consider 'keks' to be biscuits. :?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keks
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:24 am

Talisker wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I always thought a kek was a quantifying container like... "Can I have a kek of halloumia please?" :?

British slang term for underpants. As in 'I had to peel my keks off as I'd had them on for so long'. I wouldn't use the term in polite company! :lol:
Although Germans apparently consider 'keks' to be biscuits. :?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keks

Well once you start peeling it probably looks like a biscuit anyway... :? :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:15 am

Here you go GR!:



Description Of Greek Migration

The Greek area was quicker to develop than the rest of Europe: it was in Greece that fixed settlements, called Polis, arose long before they would do so elsewhere.These cities dominated a large part of South-eastern Europe and were the source of colonies established elsewhere. They also functioned as centers of commerce: trade was conducted with many remote regions, between the Polis and which settlements were established as intermediate stations.

In the Greek economy division of labour took place on a large scale. Many people were merchants, artisans or served in the army. The Greek economy also included many slaves from conquered areas.

Greek politics operated as a 'democratic' system by which the citizens -at least a select group of them- decided on city matters. Under this system people were often banished: they were forced to leave the city and settle elsewhere.

EFFECT OF CHARACTERISTICS ON MIGRATION

A lot of migration took place to and from Greek cities, due in part to economic reasons: new markets had to be conquered, requiring intermediate stations on trade routes to be founded and populated by Greek citizens. Also, people from conquered areas were brough to the Greek Polis to work as slaves.

Another basis of migration was formed by people who were banished from the Polis for political reasons; they moved elsewhere -often together with a group of people that supported them- and founded colonies.

1. DESCRIPTION OF THE MIGRATION MOVEMENT

1.1 Who were they and where did they come from: ethnic origin, geographical background, religion, adults, men or women, special qualities?

* 2000 B.C.: The first cities appeared about 2000 B.C. in the Eastern part of the Mediterranean, on Cyprus, in Greece and on Crete. The people on Crete had connections with Egypt, Sicily and Italy. On the coast of the Greek mainland the Mycenaean civilisation settled. At first the Minoan culture was the most powerful, but afterwards the Mycenaean took over. {Carp}
* 1200 B.C.: The people that lived on Sicily when the Greek expansion began came from Asia Minor, the Iberian and the Italic Peninsula. {Carp}
* 700 B.C.: The Greek polis-system appeared. Parallel to this development ran an enormous emigration. There were two waves of colonisation. Cities that played an important role in this emigration were Chalcis on Euboea, Megara, Korinthe and Sparta. They had connections through the Aegean Sea with Rhodes and the Greek Islands of Asis Minor. In this way, cities were founded in the Western part of the Mediterranean Sea like: Syracuse, Megara Hyblaea, Catania, Gela, Agrigentum, Selinunte, Himera on Sicily, Tarente, Metapontum, Croton, Locri, Rhegium, Cumea and Naples in Southern-Italy. The whole of these cities was called Large Greece/ Magna Graecia.

1.2 How did they travel: transport, circumstances of travelling?

1.3 When?


* 2000 - 1000 B.C.: There was much movement around the Aegean Sea.
* 800-400 B.C.: The first wave of colonisation was from the 8th century B.C. until the halfway the 7th century B.C., the second wave from the 6th century B.C. until in the 5th century B.C.


1.4 How many?

1.5 Permanent or temporary?

1.6 Where did they go to and where did they stay?

* 2000 - 500 B.C.: There was much movement around the Aegean Sea. Nomadic Helleni migrated to the south and settled both in the present-day Greece and at the other side of the Aegean Sea. About 800-600 B.C. they went from there to Italy, Sicily and to the territory up to the Black Sea coast, where colonies were founded.
* 1100 B.C.: The last group of Greeks, the Dorians entered the mainland part of Greek and the Peloponnesus. About 1000 B.C. the Ionians settled at the Eastern part of the Aegean and on the Anatolian coast. {Chal}
* The colonisation reaches as far as Corsica/Alalia and Gaul. Here the city of Marseille was founded in 600 B.C. This colony founded its own colonies in Antibes, Nice and Agde. The Iberian Peninsula was also a Greek colony (Ampurias). The Eastern part of Europe was also involved in this colonisation. The Islands of the Aegean Sea and the coast of Thrace/Abdera were colonised, as were the cities at the mouth of the rivers "Boeg" and "Don".

2. CAUSES OF MIGRATION

2.1 Circumstances that favoured migration

* 431 B.C. - 404 B.C.: The Pellopenesian war weakened the Greek city-states, giving way to the appearance of another powerful state: Macedonia. Phillipus II king of Macedonia began a large-scale expansion which his son Alexander the Great continued both to the East and further into Central Europe. This caused Rome to gain importance as a city, taking over the dominant role previously played by the Greek polis.

2.2 Circumstances that hindered migration

2.3 Direct causes of migration


* 1200 B.C.: Mycenae was destroyed in 1200 B.C. People left for Crete, Italy, Cyprus and Sicily. {Carp} *
700 B.C.: Emigration from the Greek cities. At the heart of this emigration lay both economic reasons such as solving demographical problems or supplying new markets by raising intermediate stations for trade routes, and political reasons such as the banishing of key figures of political conflicts. The leader of a banished group of political dissidents would lead them away from the Polis to found a colony elsewhere.


http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history/mi ... 121.html#1
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:35 am

Get Real! wrote:“Despite more than a century of excavation at Mycenaean palace sites, no one has ever excavated a Mycenaean town.”

http://www.archaeology.org/0801/abstracts/homer.html

Did Mycenaeans really exist or are they a figment of Homer’s imagination like the rest of Greek mythology? :lol:

“Maggidis, director of the Dickinson College Excavation Project and Survey in Mycenae, thinks he knows where the rest of the people, until now absent from the archaeological record, might be.”

Yeah, in Homer’s head… :lol:

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Explain this then Doofus!

http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/classics ... 19img.html

GR! with egg on his face. :lol:

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:47 am

Get Real! wrote:
How does Homer match up with the real world of the Bronze Age?

• Bronze Age places in Homer: Pylos, Mycenae, Ithaca, Troy itself, several others
• Bronze Age objects in Homer: boar's tooth helmet; sword with silver-covered rivets; tower shield of ox-hide; chariots for use in battle; metal inlay technique; single combat; megaron
• Non-Bronze Age elements in Homer: hoplite battle technique--massed ranks of infantry (introduced c. 700 B.C.); use of chariots misunderstood--used as taxis, not fighting vehicles; burial customs--cremation instead of inhumation the norm; Gorgon's head as shield device--c. 700 B.C.
• Why this mixture? In an oral tradition, poems change with each retelling
• in each age, new elements introduced, old ones remain
• the result is a conglomerate; elements from each period poem passed through

THEREFORE: can't use Homer to confirm historicity of anything: history begins with artifacts, not myth


http://www.utexas.edu/courses/cc302k/Greece/02.Myc.htm

:lol:


KITION

Approximately 500 m. northeast of the Archaeological Museum.
One of the most important ancient city- kingdoms, with architectural remade: dating back to the 13th century BC. In about 1200 BC it was rebuilt by the Mycenaean Greeks, and excavations have revealed cyclopean walls made of giant blocks of stone, and a complex of five temples.


http://www.bookcyprus.com/holidays/inde ... &Itemid=83

Kition, now mostly buried under modern Larnaca, was an important ancient city. Originally settled by the Mycenaeans and the Phonicians 3,000 years ago, it was the birthplace of Zeno the philosopher and, according to tradition, its first Christian bishop was Lazarus. Several interesting pre-Greek shrines have been uncovered here.

History

The site of the modern town of Larnaca was originally colonized by Mycenaeans in the 13th century BC. During this time the place was known as Kittim in the Bible, and the prophecy of Balaan said that "ships shall come from the coast of Kittim, and they shall afflict Ashur, and shall afflict Eber."

Like many other Mediterranean towns, Kittim had declined by about 1000 BC. Two centuries later, it was re-established by Phoenicians as Kition. It resumed its former role as a port exporting copper and enjoyed a subsequent period of great prosperity.

Persian influence arrived in 450 BC but ended a century later with the Hellenistic takeover of the entire island of Cyprus. This period saw the birth of Kition's most famous son, the Stoic philosopher Zeno.

Christianity arrived early at Kition, traditionally through the preaching of Lazarus, the man Jesus raised from the dead in Jerusalem. According to legend, Pharisees tried to dispose of the miracle by casting Lazarus to sea in a leaky boat, and he sailed safely to Cyprus. He became Kition's first bishop and later its patron saint. His tomb was for a time enshrined in the Church of Ayios Lazaros.

In the 7th century, Kition suffered the same Arab raids as other coastal settlements of Cyprus. It did not recover until the Genoese appropriation of nearby Famagusta led merchants to move here to take advantage of the port. In this era, the settlement was called Salina or Les Salines, after the inland salt lake.

It was with Ottoman rule that the city got its modern name of Larnaca, from larnax, meaning a sarcophagus. By the 18th century, Larnaca was the premier port on Cyprus and the home of numerous foreign consuls. It was only after World War II that Larnaca fell behind Famagusta and Limassol in importance.


http://www.sacred-destinations.com/cypr ... kition.htm

Tell me when you want to give up and accept your Hellenic roots. :lol: :lol: I can't bear to see a grown up man in denial. :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:50 am

Get Real! wrote:Who would've thought the Simpsons would play such a role in Cyprus? 8)

Did the Trojan war really happen?
(GR note: the main reason Mycenaeans became famous!)

"The short and fast answer to this question is: No. That is because the Trojan War story falls into the category of myth."

http://www.cerhas.uc.edu/troy/q404.html

:roll:


Evidence that Troy did in fact exist.

http://www.iit.edu/~agunsal/truva/truva/truva.html
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Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:14 am

Get Real! wrote:Where are those hellenic turnips gone? I suspect an agreed damage-control withdrawal... :lol:


Paphiti retreating? NEVER! Far too single minded for that! 8)

I am a stubborn Paphiti. :wink:

:lol:
Last edited by Paphitis on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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