Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Rubbish Tim, rubbish!!!

We can and will perfectly veto Turkey's accession, for the simple fact that (a.) it refuses to recognize another EU member state, and (b.) for the continuation of the illegal occupation of another EU member state.

As it is well known, every new member state, in order to accede the EU, must receive the approval of each and every EU member state government, and each and every EU member state parliament. Unless these happen, no new country may accede the EU. What will you do? Will you take the hand of the RoC members of parliament, squeeze it and force it vote or sign Turkey's EU accession? Will you send the British navy and air force to blockade Cyprus? Will you ask Britain to threaten us with a nuclear bombing? Nothing of all these will possibly work, as long as the above situation continues!

What else will Britain do? Will it recognize, or threaten to recognize the "TRNC?" It is illegal and not possible to do so, under the EU aqcui, because it will violate the EU treaty of accession, as well as the UN resolutions! What else? Will Britain try to get the rest of the EU member states to change the treaty of accession? It is not possible because it requires every EU member state's signature, including ours! Will Britain try to pass a new UN SC resolution, eradicating the existing one, in order to facilitate "TRNC" recognition? Not possible either! If the Russians will not veto it, the French will do, and if the French won't, the Chinese will do!

There is nothing that can be done, Tim, and rest sure we will veto Turkey's EU accession, if it doesn't change up its bloody primitive mind!

I beg to differ. It is abundantly clear that Turkey cannot accede to the EU until the Cyprus problem is solved. On the other hand, what can Cyprus veto? Not the 1963 Association Agreement which provides in principle that Turkey may one day become a member. All that is possible is to veto Turkey's accession at any one point in time, but not the general principle that one day, if she meets all the necessary conditions, she may accede. The argument that somehow Cyprus can ensure that Europe firmly slams the door in Turkey's face is ludicrous. Europe will probably continue the policy of keeping Turkey at arms length without entirely dashing all hope of eventual membership. If anything, the Cyprus problem is grist to the mill in this tactic. Furthermore, the suggestion that Turkey, already party to a customs union with the EU, will collapse if rejected by the EU is not borne out by a hard look at the performance of the Turkish economy over the past few decades. I am sorry that you think that I am simply a mouthpiece for British propaganda. Actually I happen to care for the future of this country that I have chosen to make my home and am concerned about the long-term threat that is posed by Turkey, a threat that requires to be countered with more than simple-minded wishful thinking.

[Paphitis]

Rubbish Tim, rubbish!!!

We can and will perfectly veto Turkey's accession, for the simple fact that (a.) it refuses to recognize another EU member state, and (b.) for the continuation of the illegal occupation of another EU member state.

As it is well known, every new member state, in order to accede the EU, must receive the approval of each and every EU member state government, and each and every EU member state parliament. Unless these happen, no new country may accede the EU. What will you do? Will you take the hand of the RoC members of parliament, squeeze it and force it vote or sign Turkey's EU accession? Will you send the British navy and air force to blockade Cyprus? Will you ask Britain to threaten us with a nuclear bombing? Nothing of all these will possibly work, as long as the above situation continues!

What else will Britain do? Will it recognize, or threaten to recognize the "TRNC?" It is illegal and not possible to do so, under the EU aqcui, because it will violate the EU treaty of accession, as well as the UN resolutions! What else? Will Britain try to get the rest of the EU member states to change the treaty of accession? It is not possible because it requires every EU member state's signature, including ours! Will Britain try to pass a new UN SC resolution, eradicating the existing one, in order to facilitate "TRNC" recognition? Not possible either! If the Russians will not veto it, the French will do, and if the French won't, the Chinese will do!

There is nothing that can be done, Tim, and rest sure we will veto Turkey's EU accession, if it doesn't change up its bloody primitive mind!

I beg to differ. It is abundantly clear that Turkey cannot accede to the EU until the Cyprus problem is solved. On the other hand, what can Cyprus veto? Not the 1963 Association Agreement which provides in principle that Turkey may one day become a member. All that is possible is to veto Turkey's accession at any one point in time, but not the general principle that one day, if she meets all the necessary conditions, she may accede. The argument that somehow Cyprus can ensure that Europe firmly slams the door in Turkey's face is ludicrous. Europe will probably continue the policy of keeping Turkey at arms length without entirely dashing all hope of eventual membership. If anything, the Cyprus problem is grist to the mill in this tactic. Furthermore, the suggestion that Turkey, already party to a customs union with the EU, will collapse if rejected by the EU is not borne out by a hard look at the performance of the Turkish economy over the past few decades. I am sorry that you think that I am simply a mouthpiece for British propaganda. Actually I happen to care for the future of this country that I have chosen to make my home and am concerned about the long-term threat that is posed by Turkey, a threat that requires to be countered with more than simple-minded wishful thinking.

Perhaps it is just wishful thinking on your part, because we all know that you are eagerly awaiting Turkey's EU entry because you believe that your business will prosper.

Unfortunately for you, Cyprus will veto Turkey's EU bid if Turkey does not change her policy on Cyprus. You are insane to think that we would not do this. Turkey still has not opened her airspace or ports to Cypriot Registered aircraft and ships. Turkey does not recognise the RoC, and if this continues, then we will veto Turkey, and whilst you bloody Poms will get angry, France, Germany and Austria will be right behind us.

[Tim Drayton]

Perhaps it is just wishful thinking on your part, because we all know that you are eagerly awaiting Turkey's EU entry

This is clear evidence that you have not understood my arguments, because I did not say that I expect Turkey to join the EU any time soon.

[CBBB]

Paphitis wrote:

then we will veto Turkey, and whilst you bloody Poms will get angry, France, Germany and Austria will be right behind us.

They won't do that until Cyprus withdraws it's veto. Now they are quite happy for us to threaten to do it.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis wrote:

then we will veto Turkey, and whilst you bloody Poms will get angry, France, Germany and Austria will be right behind us.

They won't do that until Cyprus withdraws it's veto. Now they are quite happy for us to threaten to do it.

Cyprus has not excercised her veto powers yet. Cyprus officially supports Turkey's EU entry, but this does not mean we will not veto Turkey if she does not meet expectations and behaves like an EU nation.

The 8 closed chapters will simply not be opened, and Turkey's EU bid will stall.

[Bananiot]

There is absolutely no way Cyprus will veto Turkey's accession to the EU. Turkey knows this too but it showed willingness back in 2003 to revise her approach to the Cyprus issue and call for solution to a problem which undoubtedly would make the path of Turkey to the EU easier. Of course we failed miserably, as usual, to take advantage of this, repeating the politically correct line at the time that "Turkey was playing a communications game". Anyone could see that the process of Turkey's accession offered a good opportunity to get our problem moving and after an impass that lasted for three decades, we saw light at the end of the channel.

Yet, we could not exploit the opportunity that was staring us in the face. We showed incredible fear in dealing with the events as they unfolded. Our inherent phobias, coupled with our conservatism blinded us and here we are now, instead of learning from our mistakes we are looking for excuses to make more mistakes.

The question now is, will we allow the likes of Kifeas and Paphitis to set the tune or have the people finally woken up to the reality. Will people lend a helpful ear to the absurdities of Kifeas who claims in all earnesty that little wee Cyprus can hault the stragetic plannings of the big fish or say "enough, you have caused all the problems you could cause, we now need to move forward and secure as much as possible"?

[observer]

Thank you Tim, - voice of sanity.

It is all but unthinkable in the world of realpolitik that RoC could veto the entry of Turkey against the will of all the other members of the EU, or even against the will of the major EU players. The threat is an empty one.

Of course, it may do so with the agreement of other members, being used as a front for other countries, possibly France and Austria. In this case, because Turkey would not gain admittance anyway, RoC’s threat is again an empty one.

It is doubtful that Turkey would lose much by staying outside the EU, a fact increasingly realized by Turkish people explaining the decreasing enthusiasm in joining shown in polls. A third reason for making RoC’s threat empty.

If, however, against all common sense, we got to a position where all the other members wished Turkey to join, Turkey wanted to join, and RoC deployed its veto to prevent this, what would happen? The EU bureaucrats would find a way around RoC’s veto and the only people to suffer would be RoC.

[Tim Drayton]

Thank you Tim, - voice of sanity.

It is all but unthinkable in the world of realpolitik that RoC could veto the entry of Turkey against the will of all the other members of the EU, or even against the will of the major EU players. The threat is an empty one.

Of course, it may do so with the agreement of other members, being used as a front for other countries, possibly France and Austria. In this case, because Turkey would not gain admittance anyway, RoC’s threat is again an empty one.

It is doubtful that Turkey would lose much by staying outside the EU, a fact increasingly realized by Turkish people explaining the decreasing enthusiasm in joining shown in polls. A third reason for making RoC’s threat empty.

If, however, against all common sense, we got to a position where all the other members wished Turkey to join, Turkey wanted to join, and RoC deployed its veto to prevent this, what would happen? The EU bureaucrats would find a way around RoC’s veto and the only people to suffer would be RoC.

At a time when massive amounts of money are going into bailing out banks and boosting flagging economies, the EU cannot afford to admit Turkey just now, even if it wished to. It would perhaps even be grist to the mill if Cyprus used its veto and, as Paphitis says, STALLS Turkey's EU accession process for the time being. There is no way that Europe is going to firmly shut its door in the face of the country through which the only non-Russian controlled pipeline from Central Asia to Europe runs. It suits Europe fine just now to keep Turkey waiting at the door, as it has done for a long time. In fact, I am convinced that the people in charge of the RoC's foreign affairs understand the shifting sands of international politics very well.

[Kifeas]

There is absolutely no way Cyprus will veto Turkey's accession to the EU.

Bananiot, if there is even one small possibility you will ever become elected as an MP in the Cyprus parliament, then there is also a small chance Turkey will receive a single favorable vote in this parliament, when Cyprus will be asked to offer its approval to Turkey's EU accession! All the rest will vote against -assuming Turkey will still be occupying Cyprus or refusing to recognize it- even if the then elected president and his government will give the go ahead, something of course very unlikely. Do not forget that your party ideology enjoys even less than the 1.6% needed to elect even just one MP!

Now, to twist the above fact and reality, i.e. the slim chance of Turkey getting only one single approval vote in the RoC parliament -yours or your party's one, and turn it around 180 degree by saying that "there is absolutely no way Cyprus will veto Turkey's accession to the EU," just shows what a “karagiozis” (clown) have become of you!

If you believe that there is even one single GC hand of an MP in the RoC parliament, that will push a yes vote for Turkey, without choosing to commit suicide instead, then you have completely lost touch with any sense of reality, morality and sensibility! Your defeatism has taken unprecedented dimensions, that you prefer to see your daughter and wife in an Ottoman harem, and yourself as an eunuch, if that is all takes to avoid standing up for your country and its people's rights!

[Nikitas]

Remember 1992 when Mitsotakis, for the first time, did not use the Greek veto on Turkish customs union. In an interview he explained his move and said he would no longer allow EU members to hide behind Greece's objections. As soon as the Greek veto was gone all the rest had to reveal themeselves and all kinds of conditions were attached to the deal.

The same holds true here. Cyprus does not have to use its veto. Cyprus has some very specific problems with Turkey, not a general anti Turkish attitude. In contrast, the rest of the EU, even the British who like to pretend they champion Turkish membership, have some very broad ojections to Turkish EU entry.