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Halting Turkey's EU Bid

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Kifeas » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:43 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Do you GCs understand that even a TRNC unrecognized with 1000 times more problems is a zillions times better than living in a GC state?


Had coffee at starbucks with a tc guy that takes his kid to the same school as my son. He didn't think so.

Who exactly do you represent VP?


DT TCs can do whatever they wish but the majority still choose the TRNC, you talk about a few who take their chances in the GC south, do they live in the south?


Continue with the same old and insincere "wooden tongue," and you will see a good "hayir!"


hayir??? what do you mean?


Benefit, fortune, blessing! What happened to your Turkish? I though, since English you do not seem to understand, I should start explaining to you things in Turkey, but alas!
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:50 am

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Do you GCs understand that even a TRNC unrecognized with 1000 times more problems is a zillions times better than living in a GC state?


Had coffee at starbucks with a tc guy that takes his kid to the same school as my son. He didn't think so.

Who exactly do you represent VP?


DT TCs can do whatever they wish but the majority still choose the TRNC, you talk about a few who take their chances in the GC south, do they live in the south?


Continue with the same old and insincere "wooden tongue," and you will see a good "hayir!"


hayir??? what do you mean?


Benefit, fortune, blessing! What happened to your Turkish? I though, since English you do not seem to understand, I should start explaining to you things in Turkey, but alas!


You talk in riddles he with forked tongue.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:31 am

Get Real! wrote:
[...]

The fact that you think you can actually make it despite being flooded by Turks and your people decreasing in number every year... etc, etc, etc, so it must either be a psychological issue or you’re just plain stupid.

[...]



Bad case of the "etc, etc, etc" there. This scourge was introduced by Mr H and it now appears to be spreading. I impose a quarantine order on you with immediate effect!
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Postby Paphitis » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:58 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
[...]

The fact that you think you can actually make it despite being flooded by Turks and your people decreasing in number every year... etc, etc, etc, so it must either be a psychological issue or you’re just plain stupid.

[...]



Bad case of the "etc, etc, etc" there. This scourge was introduced by Mr H and it now appears to be spreading. I impose a quarantine order on you with immediate effect!


I second the motion. :lol:
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:23 am

Further evidence that Turkey is no longer actively striving towards speedy EU accession: a Turkish court has sentenced Kurdish nationalist Leyla Zana, the recipient of a European Parliament human rights award, to ten years in prison purely on account of public statements she has made:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7765734.stm

The court of appeal will now deliberate on this judgment and Ms Zana remains at liberty pending this appeal. This case is clearly charged with great symbolic as well as political significance - Ms Zana was previously released from prison for similar offences as a result of EU pressure - and developments surrounding it will shed further light on Turkey's intentions with respect to its EU accession process.

Remember, Cyprus' much-vaunted veto only has any value as long as Turkey actually wants to get into the club.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:45 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Further evidence that Turkey is no longer actively striving towards speedy EU accession: a Turkish court has sentenced Kurdish nationalist Leyla Zana, the recipient of a European Parliament human rights award, to ten years in prison purely on account of public statements she has made:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7765734.stm

The court of appeal will now deliberate on this judgment and Ms Zana remains at liberty pending this appeal. This case is clearly charged with great symbolic as well as political significance - Ms Zana was previously released from prison for similar offences as a result of EU pressure - and developments surrounding it will shed further light on Turkey's intentions with respect to its EU accession process.

Remember, Cyprus' much-vaunted veto only has any value as long as Turkey actually wants to get into the club.


I have no doubts Turkey wants to get into the EU. But it wants to get in by pressuring the EU to accept it as it is. It is not prepared to change, because it does not acknowledge its wrongs.

Turkey makes a policy of flouting International opinion, as it does in this case. So, it still wants to get into the EU and it will do so when it has found the perfect threat or tipping point ....
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:24 pm

Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Further evidence that Turkey is no longer actively striving towards speedy EU accession: a Turkish court has sentenced Kurdish nationalist Leyla Zana, the recipient of a European Parliament human rights award, to ten years in prison purely on account of public statements she has made:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7765734.stm

The court of appeal will now deliberate on this judgment and Ms Zana remains at liberty pending this appeal. This case is clearly charged with great symbolic as well as political significance - Ms Zana was previously released from prison for similar offences as a result of EU pressure - and developments surrounding it will shed further light on Turkey's intentions with respect to its EU accession process.

Remember, Cyprus' much-vaunted veto only has any value as long as Turkey actually wants to get into the club.


I have no doubts Turkey wants to get into the EU. But it wants to get in by pressuring the EU to accept it as it is. It is not prepared to change, because it does not acknowledge its wrongs.

Turkey makes a policy of flouting International opinion, as it does in this case. So, it still wants to get into the EU and it will do so when it has found the perfect threat or tipping point ....


There are plenty of signs that in Turkey the old ruling establishment, whose rule has been challenged by the Islamist AKP government for the past four years, is beginning to regain the upper hand. I have no doubt that in a very abstract sense this establishment cherishes the goal of eventual EU accession but, on the other hand, is not so enthusiatic about rapidly implementing the necessary democratic reforms to bring this about, since this would require the dismantling of a system of rule based on the very ideology that secures its existence. The establishment is thus happy to keep EU accession at arms length as a lofty goal that may be attained several decades hence, while in the mean time coming down like a ton of bricks on those who question cherished paradigms. This, I am sure, is also grist to Europe's mill, which prefers to keep Turkey waiting in a state of limbo.

I do not think that this bodes well for the current negotiations in Cyprus unless other sources of pressure can be brought to bear on Turkey rather than the threat of veto.
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Postby Nikitas » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:38 pm

If Turkey wants to join the EU, then Cyprus has a form of leverage due to its much touted Veto. Cyprus itself, as well as Greece, have expressly said that it wants Turkey to enter the EU and behave according to EU standards.

Now if Turkey decides to reject the EU course and go on the way marked by the old elite would that be worse for Cyprus? Perhaps not, since it would lay down clear demarcation, political, ideological and strategic, between the EU and Turkey. An open EU-Turkey conflict would eventually bring the matter of the continued occupation of the north to the fore in terms not seen in the past.

The criterion here is how much Turkey steps on the interests of EU strategic players in the eastern Mediterranean. Turkey is pretending to be acting as the impartial mediator between Syria and Israel. There is no such thing as impartiality in diplomacy. Turkey obviously wants something out of this deal and the extent of this "something" and how far it conflicts with the interests of others will determine their reaction.

The bottom line is that the EU, with a member state close to the action will not tolerate an expansion of Turkish territory in the area. The issue has yet to be expressed in these terms but it will eventually come to that.
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Postby Paphitis » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:35 pm

Port access clock ticks on in Cyprus

ANKARA - If leaked documents are anything to go by, the prognosis of the Cyprus reunification talks does not make happy reading for Ankara, as Turkey faces another moment of reckoning in its protracted European Union membership bid later this year. The absence of a solution there could spell trouble here

Port access clock ticks on in Cyprus With Turkey facing a review of the European Union accession talks at the end of the year, the recently leaked official documents that tell of the lack of progress in the ongoing Cyprus negotiations do not bode well for Ankara.

An official Turkish Cypriot document on the negotiations with the Greek Cypriots, dating back to early February, has confirmed the disparities between the two sides first revealed in a leaked Greek Cypriot document.

An implicit deadline for resolution on the divided island is coming up in November, with the publication of the European Union's next progress report on Turkey. The report will evaluate whether or not Turkey has observed the Ankara Agreement to open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot vessels.

According to the most recently released document, obtained by the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review, a federal government and power sharing remain the major areas of contention. "There is no major difference on which areas should be under the federal authority," says the Turkish Cypriot document, which takes a softer tone than the Greek Cypriot version. "The only issue under federalism on which the two sides could not converge at all is the federal government."

Within the framework of negotiations that began Sept. 3, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and Greek Cypriot President Demetris Christofias have held 16 meetings to discuss administration and power sharing on the island. The official Greek document, leaked to the Greek Cypriot press, listed points of convergence and disagreement on key issues that would affect a reunited state, including governance and power sharing.

According to the Turkish document, the Greek Cypriot side proposed a system that would select a president and vice president in a public vote based on a single list with a weighted ballot. The Turkish Cypriot side instead favors a Swiss-style presidential council, to which members are elected by a senate on the basis of a single list.

Moreover, the Turkish document maintains Turkish Cypriots have submitted their proposal to the United Nations and Greek Cypriots for a new state of Cyprus, or a "virgin birth," modelled on the Annan Plan for reunification.

It said the Greek Cypriots had so far evaded discussion on the topic. "We said in our proposal that we are ready to accept the formulation in the Annan Plan, though it is not ideal for us," the document said.

Significant points of convergence include EU affairs, foreign affairs and defense policies, Cyprus citizenship, migration, the Central Bank, the federal budget and air space.

The Turkish Cypriot proposal would establish a presidential council consisting of seven members, four of whom would belong to the constituent state holding the majority of the population and three belonging to the other state. The president and vice president could not be chosen from the same constituent state during the same term and both posts would be subject to rotation every 12 months. The rotation would take place based on a 3 to 2 ratio.

In the Greek Cypriot proposal, the presidential council would consist of nine members, six from the Greek Cypriot side and three from the Turkish Cypriot side. The rotation would take place based on a 4 to 2 ratio that favors the Greek Cypriots.

Both sides agreed to a Parliament with two houses and a Senate that consisted of equal numbers of Greek and Turkish Cypriot members. They have not come to an agreement over the composition of the House of Representatives. The Turkish Cypriot side favors election on the basis of community citizenship for the Senate, but based on founding state citizenship for the House of Representatives. The Greek Cypriots want elections for both bodies to be made on the basis of permanent residence.

Sovereignty

A significant point of disagreement centers on the sovereignty of the federal state. The Turkish side holds that approval of the constituent states should be sought over international agreements that could affect its internal affairs. This proposal is rejected as a breach of the single-sovereignty principle by the Greek Cypriots, who argue that founding states can only make agreements on cultural and commercial issues, with mediation from the federal government. The Turkish side also wants guarantees that the federal state will maintain an equal distance from Greece and Turkey until the latter becomes a member of the EU.


Turkey's maximalist claims look set to keep Turkey out of the EU.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/dome ... sp?gid=244

Good to see that Turkey is starting to see the writing on the wall.
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