Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Turkey needs final approval from all members of the EU for enlargement. Since Turkey does not recognise Cyprus and villifies all actions taken by Cyprus that portray it as a legitimate govt, then surely it does not want Cyprus to act in its official capacity and vote for enlargement, does it?

[MrH]

Kikapu,

Ok - Let's wait and see what happens when the GCs say "No" to a BBF, "No" to a clean break! Just watch what will happen to Northern Cyprus.

I am not trying to sell anything - never have. Just giving you the opinion of the TCs who do not participate in this forum, who are the MAJORITY of TCs.

I don't hide behind saying yes to everything the GCs on this forum say only to been "Agreed" with and left alone. If you believe my views are not of the "Majority" - Just say no to a BBF plan.

[paliometoxo]

the turks idea of a solution MrH is two states they have say in what goes on for the whole of island and a recognised trnc, its like if gcs went to negotiating table asking for ENOSIS with greece.. im sure most dont want that in the south but its still asking for something unthinkable to the other side, take and no give then take some more, tassos could see the game of the turks and knows how to play them, the turks hated this.

one cyprus no turks or greek this is cyprus not turkey or greece if u want turkish republic ( turkey number 2 in cyprus ) go to turkey you will fit in fine there.

when a reasnoble agreement is put foward i am sure both sides will accept, not one that is totally taylored to fit the needs of ONE side.

trkey cant keep supporting the illiogall invasion they dont have the meens to do it they already cant send money into the north to keep the illigall invasion spliting our land in two. before long the turks will be forced to take the troops home, espesially when turkeys eu is out the window, it all hangs on turkeys eu bid

[MrH]

paliometoxo,

I must partially agree paliometoxo - well said. you do have a valid point, and it does depend upon Turkish EU entry, but, perhaps, and just perhaps, a Cyprus BBF Solution will prevail that centres on the best compromise?

Unfortunately paliometoxo, the strong rejection by the GCs on the Annan Plan casts a very dark shadow on the idea of meeting, or even finding a balance to a very complex workable Federal agreement. The Turkish and Greek Cypriots have lived apart for soo long now that many vital integration components has diminished! Like - similarities with the use of certain words, living side by side, trust, and merely knowing each of their children, watching them grow up together, go to school and etc. All this is missing. My Greek Cypriot friends in London remember me as a child, before we were exposed to the Cyprus issue, where, it is with those memories as children where our friendship prevails.

In Cyprus, this is lost! Our history is Bloody, similar to that of the former Yugoslavia. Perhaps the Yugoslavian break up could at least promote friendship based on two Cypriot States - only if the GCs and TCs have the will to agree.

[Kikapu]

Ok - Let's wait and see what happens when the GCs say "No" to a BBF, "No" to a clean break! Just watch what will happen to Northern Cyprus.

If the BBF you are talking about that is nothing but a Confederation with all the ingredients of an eventual partition at the first chance it gets, then there wont even be a referendum put in front of the GC people to vote, so that you can get your "NO" vote. If on the other hand, a BBF with all the ingredients of a True Federation is agreed on, then there will be a referendum and the majority GC's will say "YES", I believe. The reverse of course is true for the TC's. They will give a "YES" to a Confederation and a "NO" to True Federation. Guess what, BBF is meant to be a Federation, hence the letter "F" at the end of BBF. It does not say BBC. BBF with Federation is what was agreed on at the UNSC.

But please amuse me and tell me what will happen in the north if the GC's did say "NO" to another Annan Plan type of referendum. I'm sure we all like to know what it is that you know, so please do tell us.

I am not trying to sell anything - never have. Just giving you the opinion of the TCs who do not participate in this forum, who are the MAJORITY of TCs.

Well, let me give you an opinion from another TC, MrH, me. You are trying to sell us on the forum a bunch of Doom & Gloom if BBF, Confederation style is not agreed on by the GC's. They already said "NO" once and will say "NO" again under the same circumstances, so what Doom & Gloom happened since 2004 and where has the north gotten since. No where, is the answer and it will be the same if another "NO" is given. Just because the majority of TC's may want BBF, Confederation style where the north to become TC owned state, it does not mean the GC's, who just happen to be 80% owners of the land in the north, are going to give it to the TC's, just because you are trying to sell everyone a Doom & Gloom.

I don't hide behind saying yes to everything the GCs on this forum say only to been "Agreed" with and left alone. If you believe my views are not of the "Majority" - Just say no to a BBF plan.

I did not understand what was it that you were trying to say in the above. But let me tell you this much. If there is another "NO" from the GC's and the north is by some miracle is recognised by some 3rd world countries that will have no financial benefit for the north, other than symbolic, and lets face it, symbolic gestures does not pay the bills, but the Western countries will not do so, so just how far do you think the north or Turkey will get, because at the end of the day, the RoC controls the future of the north and Turkey, as far as their ambition to enter the EU. Perhaps you are thinking, "well, we will just return some land back to the GC's and all will be forgiven and forgotten". Yeah, Right.!! You could also ask for a agreed partition with only 18% of the north to be kept by the TC's and a very tall wall is built between the two sides so that the north will become totally independent. Guess what, the RoC will still veto the north and Turkey from entering the EU. So you see MrH, you can make as many wishes as you want and as many Doom & Gloom threats you want if your kind of BBF is not agreed on, but one thing that you have to get use to, and that is, 2004 changed everything when Cyprus entered into the EU. They may not have gotten control of all it's territory because of the occupation of the north, but what they have gotten, is the control of Turkey's future with the EU. If the north was not able to gain recognition and complete independence from the RoC since 1974, it has even less chance now without the blessing of the RoC, or else, Talat will not be negotiating right now. Talat is hoping to get what the majority TC's want, which is you idea of BBF, but the ones who have the final word on the BBF is not the majority TC's, but the majority GC's. Try not to forget that, will you.!

[Nikitas]

"Our history is Bloody" says Mr H.

This is an old refrain, we hear it again and again.

Other nations have had civil wars that make ours seem like a picnic. The American Civil war had single battles in which the casualties in one day were multiple of our GC and TC casualties since 1958.

Spain, Greece, England, to name a few had bloody civil wars and they recovered. Greece lost 600 000 people in the 1946-49 civil war, it outlawed the communist party and kept thousands of people in prison camps for years. Today that is all history and the communist party is represented in Parliament. Civils wars are not a Cypriot invention.

If the will to solve a problem and outside interference is gone, a solution is a matter of days away.

The problem is a perverted "strategic" interest by Turkey in the island. And this is made worse by the cynical exploitation of the TCs. If Turkey gave a damn about TCs there would be more of them in Cyprus today than there were in 1974. Instead about half are left. Unless the TCs wake up and demand their independence from their "mother" any agreement will be twisted to suit Turkey and not the TCs.

[Kifeas]

So, and according to how I see it, Cyprus' EU entry before an agreed settlement was a mistake - Cyprus and Turkey should have joined the EU together! Otherwise Cyprus legally shouldn't have been allowed.

And, before GR lashes out again, I BELIEVE that Turkey should not sign a Federal agreement without to Founding States for Cyprus unless it is a Full member of the EU - It would be a big mistake for Turkey considering the many failed promises and the serious lack of Guarantee that Turkey will be allowed into the EU.

The original Cyprus republic was seen as a synergy of alliance between Turkey, Greece and Britain. But now it's obviously become an element of Partition!

MrH, since you have made this extremely important discovery, that Cyprus accession (the whole of Cyprus under the government of the RoC) into the EU, was an illegality and a mistake, why doesn't mama Turka take the invitation we have extended to her, to come with us to the ICJ of The Hague, and obtain a ruling that will renter our EU accession as illegal and invalid?

We are ready to agree that will go to The Hague, we GCs against the illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus by Turkey, and you (Turkey) against the illegality of the RoC and its illegal accession to the EU. In such a case, we are ready to abide by any ruling! Since according to you and mama Turka, her invasion in 1974 and her occupation of Cyprus are /were legal, and the accession of the whole of Cyprus under the RoC into the EU, is illegal, here is your chance to obtain a binding ruling and solve the problem once and for good. Why are you afraid to pick up the invitation, and instead all you to is shout here and there the same old rhetoric and propaganda, that so far no one takes seriously? Why MrH?

Is it because mama Turka and your leadership know already that what we say we mean and believe it, but what they say they already know it is pure bullshit that has no chance to go through in an international court? I am just asking.

[Get Real!]

Ok - Let's wait and see what happens when the GCs say "No" to a BBF, "No" to a clean break! Just watch what will happen to Northern Cyprus.

You’ll get a full invasion by the Kurds?

[BirKibrisli]

I have said this before,and I will say it again...Why do you all think this Turkish government of Erdogan's really wants to take Turkey into the EU...??? I believe it is the last thing they really want,as it will be the end of their hidden aspiration,to turn Turkey into an Islamic republic..

In any case,you can be sure Turkey will put solving the Cyprus issue last on her list of things to do...As I don't see how Turkey will ever satisfy EU's human rights demands,it is really academic what Cyprus might do with her VETO...Those who have warned that delaying finding a permanent solution is working against Cyprus' interests are absolutely right...Another 25 years and there will be no getting the one Million or so settlers out of Cyprus...TC culture and identity will be totally assimilated into the Turkish one,and the GCs will become a minority in Cyprus...

Not a very comfortable place to be,in my humble opinion...

[Tim Drayton]

paliometoxo,

I must partially agree paliometoxo - well said. you do have a valid point, and it does depend upon Turkish EU entry, but, perhaps, and just perhaps, a Cyprus BBF Solution will prevail that centres on the best compromise?

Unfortunately paliometoxo, the strong rejection by the GCs on the Annan Plan casts a very dark shadow on the idea of meeting, or even finding a balance to a very complex workable Federal agreement. The Turkish and Greek Cypriots have lived apart for soo long now that many vital integration components has diminished! Like - similarities with the use of certain words, living side by side, trust, and merely knowing each of their children, watching them grow up together, go to school and etc. All this is missing. My Greek Cypriot friends in London remember me as a child, before we were exposed to the Cyprus issue, where, it is with those memories as children where our friendship prevails.

In Cyprus, this is lost! Our history is Bloody, similar to that of the former Yugoslavia. Perhaps the Yugoslavian break up could at least promote friendship based on two Cypriot States - only if the GCs and TCs have the will to agree.

This is purely anecdotal evidence, but by chance yesterday I visited an office in the south of Nicosia in which some young TCs work together with young GCs. I did not witness any of the difficulties that you mention above. Young educated Turkish Cypriots may no longer speak Greek or have the same kind of attachment to shared traditional Cypriot village culture, but educated young people in both communities have been strongly influenced by global, westernised culture and are fluent in English. As I saw for myself yesterday, these factors may well serve as "integration components" (to coin your phrase) for the younger generation.

Go to any international shipping office in Limassol and you will see people from all four corners of the earth working together in harmony. I see no reason why the people from two different communities on this small island cannot do the same.