Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Thanks for all your responses - regardless of whether I agree to them or not - your civilised manner means more!

Paphitis Said:

Cyprus is the reason why 8 Acquis chapters have been frozen. Turkey's progression has already been halted by Cyprus. There is no chance of Turkey joining the EU without these chapters being addressed.

I would however like to comment on the above. Actually Paphitis, Turkey's "Progression" has very little to do with the Cyprus problem - Cyprus is not a condition under the Copenhagen criteria for Turkish EU entry, never has been and never will be. In saying that, the EU didn't set a "Solution for the Cyprus problem" as a condition before "Cyprus" was accepted?

Let's be honest here, if Turkey meets all of the conditions of EU entry, but leaves (or delays) the Cyprus elements, do you believe that the EU would reject Turkey - when it reaches that state? Of course not. When Turkey reaches the stage when it has fulfilled all of the EU conditions for entry (and I have no doubt they will - eventually!!), but has only ignored those conditions affecting Cyprus due to its fundamental beliefs and sensitivities involving the island of Cyprus, I'm sure that the pressure will actually be on the present Cyprus government to compromise.

This is why:
Look at it this way, and I don't want to offend anyone here as I discuss these situations with my GC friends on a regular basis, but, Turkey will obviously be seen in a different light once all conditions (besides those affecting Cyprus if a solution is not found) are met, it will obviously be regarded as a more prominent and asset worthy country, economically and politically influential and extremely needed for the EU, and the west for that matter - Think about China, Asian market influence, competition, ex-soviet Turkic States and of course Oil in Iraq and Iran.

Furthermore, like how the EU "wronged" Russia, Cyprus and Greece with the surprising and sudden recognition of Kosovo, I wouldn't be shocked to see that mirrored with the TRNC.

In conclusion, I believe that Cyprus is presently hanging too much significance on Turkey's EU entry in the hope that the EU will have "No Choice" but to take the GC point of view.

I sincerely hope that you have not miss-calculated as the result could be far worst than agreeing to a BBF agreement. I wouldn't put your entire trust in EU hands! Judging by the amount of investments in the Turkish economy, oil exploration and pipeline projects, what's going on in the ex-soviet republic states and Northern Iraq, I believe that your unification hopes based on a non-BBF formula of two founding states may just come crashing down. If the EU were so sincere to your Cyprus viewpoint, why does the TRNC continue to exist, why hasn't the EU-Rapid force walked in? There's clearly more than you bargained for when it comes to the Cyprus issue and Christofias knows it - that's why he can't back off of a UN process.

GR - I am looking further into the real reason(s) as to why Britain decided to hand over the Cyprus Republic to the GCs in 1974, I look forward to discussing this with you.

[Paphitis]

I would however like to comment on the above. Actually Paphitis, Turkey's "Progression" has very little to do with the Cyprus problem - Cyprus is not a condition under the Copenhagen criteria for Turkish EU entry, never has been and never will be. In saying that, the EU didn't set a "Solution for the Cyprus problem" as a condition before "Cyprus" was accepted?

Cyprus is a victim of invasion and occupation. You invaded the island and stole lands which do not belong to you and you also ethnically cleansed 200,000 indigenous inhabitants.

The EU would net set this condition as far as the RoC is concerned. How could they possible prohibit Cyprus from entering the EU, thus unjustly punishing the nation which is a victim of invasion and occuoation?

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.

Let's be honest here, if Turkey meets all of the conditions of EU entry, but leaves (or delays) the Cyprus elements, do you believe that the EU would reject Turkey - when it reaches that state? Of course not. When Turkey reaches the stage when it has fulfilled all of the EU conditions for entry (and I have no doubt they will - eventually!!), but has only ignored those conditions affecting Cyprus due to its fundamental beliefs and sensitivities involving the island of Cyprus, I'm sure that the pressure will actually be on the present Cyprus government to compromise.

Turkey will not become an EU member unless she satisfies all the criteria of the EU acquis. Currently 8 chapters have been frozen due to the continued dispute in Cyprus. They will not be opened until there is a solution to the Cyprus Problem. The prospect of freezing another 5 chapters is currently being discussed.

I am afraid you need to be honest with yourself. Turkey can not become a member of the EU until all EU chapters are addressed.

Time Line
1959 - Turkey applies for associate membership in the European Economic Community.
1963 - Association Agreement signed, acknowledging the final goal of membership.
1964 - Association Agreement comes into effect.[5]
1970 - Protocol signed providing a timetable for the abolition of tariffs and quotas on goods.
1980 - Freeze in relations following the 1980 Turkish coup d'état.
1983 - Relations fully restored following elections.
1987 - Application for formal membership into the European Community.
1989 - European Commission refuses to immediately begin accession negotiations, citing Turkey’s economic and political situation, poor relations with Greece and their conflict with Cyprus, but overall reaffirming eventual membership as the goal.
1995 - European Union-Turkey Customs Union is formed.
1999 - European Council recognises Turkey as a candidate on equal footing with other potential candidates.
2002 - European Council states that "the EU would open negotiations with Turkey 'without delay' if Turkey fulfills the Copenhagen criteria".
2002 - 2002 Turkish general election brings the pro-EU Justice and Development Party (AKP) to power.
2004 - Turkish government and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus back the Annan Plan for Cyprus.
2004, December - European Union agrees to start negotiations.
3 October 2005 - Opening of six chapters of the Acquis: Right of Establishment & Freedom to provide Services, Company Law, Financial Services, Information Society & Media, Statistics and Financial Control
12 June 2006 - Chapter on Science and Research opened and closed.
11 December 2006 - Continued dispute over Cyprus prompts EU to freeze talks on eight chapters and state no chapters would be closed until a resolution is found[14]
29 March 2007 - Chapter on Enterprise and Industrial Regulations opened[15]
25 June 2007 - Chapters on Statistics and Financial Control opened, but the opening of the chapter on economic and monetary policy was blocked by French President Nicholas Sarkozy.[16]
20 December 2007 - Chapters on Health & Consumer Protection and on Trans-European Transport are opened.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_ ... pean_Union

[Kikapu]

Thanks for all your responses - regardless of whether I agree to them or not - your civilised manner means more!

Paphitis Said:

Cyprus is the reason why 8 Acquis chapters have been frozen. Turkey's progression has already been halted by Cyprus. There is no chance of Turkey joining the EU without these chapters being addressed.

I would however like to comment on the above. Actually Paphitis, Turkey's "Progression" has very little to do with the Cyprus problem - Cyprus is not a condition under the Copenhagen criteria for Turkish EU entry, never has been and never will be. In saying that, the EU didn't set a "Solution for the Cyprus problem" as a condition before "Cyprus" was accepted?

Let's be honest here, if Turkey meets all of the conditions of EU entry, but leaves (or delays) the Cyprus elements, do you believe that the EU would reject Turkey - when it reaches that state? Of course not. When Turkey reaches the stage when it has fulfilled all of the EU conditions for entry (and I have no doubt they will - eventually!!), but has only ignored those conditions affecting Cyprus due to its fundamental beliefs and sensitivities involving the island of Cyprus, I'm sure that the pressure will actually be on the present Cyprus government to compromise.

This is why:
Look at it this way, and I don't want to offend anyone here as I discuss these situations with my GC friends on a regular basis, but, Turkey will obviously be seen in a different light once all conditions (besides those affecting Cyprus if a solution is not found) are met, it will obviously be regarded as a more prominent and asset worthy country, economically and politically influential and extremely needed for the EU, and the west for that matter - Think about China, Asian market influence, competition, ex-soviet Turkic States and of course Oil in Iraq and Iran.

Furthermore, like how the EU "wronged" Russia, Cyprus and Greece with the surprising and sudden recognition of Kosovo, I wouldn't be shocked to see that mirrored with the TRNC.

In conclusion, I believe that Cyprus is presently hanging too much significance on Turkey's EU entry in the hope that the EU will have "No Choice" but to take the GC point of view.

I sincerely hope that you have not miss-calculated as the result could be far worst than agreeing to a BBF agreement. I wouldn't put your entire trust in EU hands! Judging by the amount of investments in the Turkish economy, oil exploration and pipeline projects, what's going on in the ex-soviet republic states and Northern Iraq, I believe that your unification hopes based on a non-BBF formula of two founding states may just come crashing down. If the EU were so sincere to your Cyprus viewpoint, why does the TRNC continue to exist, why hasn't the EU-Rapid force walked in? There's clearly more than you bargained for when it comes to the Cyprus issue and Christofias knows it - that's why he can't back off of a UN process.

GR - I am looking further into the real reason(s) as to why Britain decided to hand over the Cyprus Republic to the GCs in 1974, I look forward to discussing this with you.

MrH,

You are sounding more and more like a "slimy used car salesman" with your constant misinformation almost about everything in your posts, and quiet frankly, no one is buying any of your arguments, including the level headed TC's on this forum, let alone almost all of the GC's. Just who is it that you are trying to convince here by pushing your propaganda agenda. All the NeoPartitionists on this forum are all sold on partition way before you showed up, so you are only preaching to the choir. Don't worry, these people have already bought a "junk car" and unless you believe they need another "junk car" then keep up with your propaganda. All your opinions on the EU=Cyprus=Turkey is worthless. You give too much importance of Turkey to Europe. Turkey needs the EU much more than the EU needing Turkey, simple, case closed. Turkey's EU road runs right through the RoC, and if you don't want to believe me, then you must have missed, or ignored what I posted couple of days ago on what Ali Babacan said in April this year.

Transcript: FT interview with Ali Babacan
Published: April 14 2008

"For many new member states, when you look at the Eastern European countries or Romania or Bulgaria, the new members, as you say, these were evaluated purely on technical factors, but for Turkey we have found out that the opening of the chapters and closing of the chapters could be influenced by reasons which are of a very political nature. For example, the Cyprus issue. Now we cannot open eight chapters, we cannot close any of the chapters until the Cyprus issue is resolved…Or, for example, the French Government defined some five chapters which they think will take Turkey to full membership and they say that since these five chapters are taking Turkey to full membership we should not maybe discuss these yet, let’s deal with the other 30 [other] chapters and let’s postpone these and see what’s going to happen. When we look at those five chapters, not only us but many member states actually have difficulty understanding why those five. So, the negotiation framework document does indicate any kind of approach like that, but that’s the reality that we are facing, so we need to have the consensus of all the 27 member states to open a chapter or to close a chapter".

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb8de71a-0a57 ... fd2ac.html

Besides, the EU already does business with Turkey right now with their cheap labour and with or without any future gas or oil pipelines going across Turkey towards Europe. A gas and oil pipeline would benefit Turkey as much as Europe. Who else is Turkey going to pipe these commodities to so that she can earn some transit money for these commodities. Why would the EU needs to change it's position if Turkey does not change it's position with one of it's members. As the saying goes,
"Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free". So why should the EU ever consider taking Turkey aboard without solving the Cyprus issues first. Turkey's original application to become a EU member did not give Turkey a green light to do what ever she wanted along the way, and still expected to become a member. As I tell VP all the time, that "Time does not stand still". Guess what, times have changed and so does the need for Turkey to change also, or else Cyprus will veto Turkey out of the EU and there's nothing anyone can do about it, unless the Cyprus issue is resolved. This may very well cost the northern part of Cyprus to be in the hands of Turkey, but as you can see, the south has moved on with prosperity and an entry into the EU and are recognised around the world. This is the reality that you must accept and the TC's and Turkey. Without a solution that is acceptable to the GC's, which a so called solution like the Annan Plan, "virgin birth", or anything that has a partition prospects in it down the road, it will be rejected by the GC's. So, where does that leave Turkey and the TC's. Exactly where they are right now, one looking for recognition and the other looking for a ways to get into the EU. In the end, neither will happen, unless a solution is first found for Cyprus where the TC's and the GC's agree on a real solution so that Turkey can look for her EU entry.

Furthermore, like how the EU "wronged" Russia, Cyprus and Greece with the surprising and sudden recognition of Kosovo,I wouldn't be shocked to see that mirrored with the TRNC.

The above is one of your "slimy used car salesman's" propaganda. The EU did not recognise Kosovo's independence. Only certain members of the EU recognised Kosovo's independence. There is a huge difference. The same certain members are not willing to recognise the "trnc" It should tell you something, because no single EU member is going to go against one of their own, and the RoC is one of their own now, while Turkey is an outsider, along with the "trnc".

Time for you to get into a new business than peddling "junk cars" that nobody wants to buy on this forum MrH.!

[MrH]

Paphitis:

ethnically cleansed 200,000 indigenous inhabitants.

Now that was obviously below the belt - you know the Greek EOKA-B Coupist were killing Greek Cypriots, you know Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well as the TCs from EOKA-B's rage of ethnic cleansing from 1963-1974 (especially 1974!).

Your claim above is the reason why the EU can only go a certain distance with Turkey on the Cyprus issue - because the real Ethnic Cleansing was done to us in the 1960s!

At least be honest!

[T_C]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

[Get Real!]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

It’s all relative... putting someone out of their “misery” could be seen as saving them!

[Paphitis]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

That sums it all up.

No need to say anything alse.

The guy is a twit!

[DT.]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

It’s all relative... putting someone out of their “misery” could be seen as saving them!

You wouldn't believe the trouble we had selling our house and land in Morphou and on the coast inKyrenia. Thank god Turkey came and took the lot from us...phew!

[Paphitis]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

It’s all relative... putting someone out of their “misery” could be seen as saving them!

You wouldn't believe the trouble we had selling our house and land in Morphou and on the coast inKyrenia. Thank god Turkey came and took the lot from us...phew!

And to top it all off, the guy still has dreams of Turkey entering the EU, despite numerous members providing backed up evidence that 8 chapters are frozen, thus preventing Turkey's accession until a solution is found.

[Get Real!]

Turkey came to save the Greek Cypriots as well.

It’s all relative... putting someone out of their “misery” could be seen as saving them!

You wouldn't believe the trouble we had selling our house and land in Morphou and on the coast inKyrenia. Thank god Turkey came and took the lot from us...phew!

Think of the savings on agent fees and advertising!

Dr kevorkian rules ok in Turkey...